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Salary Cap Solution number?

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
Salary Cap Solution number?

The salary cap, well it is not perfect, but it is (arguably) better than nothing.
One area where the cap falls down on is in its inability to accommodate developing talent i.e. rising stars who sooner or later attract rising salaries. This solution sets out to reward teams who develop their own talent; however this reward does not last for ever.

The Solution
A $10,000 Salary cap increase (or exemption) for each State of Origin match or International a player participates in.
A hypothetical example for the year 2004:
Brisbane has 8 players who play in State of Origin.
Between them they play a total of 16 matches thus they receive a cap increase of $160,000
Brisbane also has 5 players who represent Australia.
Between them they play a total of 24 tests, so they receive a cap increase of $240,000

Total Salary cap increase (or exemption) for Brisbane equals $400,000.

Fine Tuning (qualifying criteria)
You would be right in saying that a $400,000 salary cap increase is a bit much by anyone’s standards. So now we come to Part Two of this solution – qualifying criteria, of which, there are two:
1) Only local juniors receive the full $10,000 per match, everyone else receives $5000 per game
2) These local juniors receive 3 years grace at $10k (a bit like an apprentice in horse racing) from the time they play their first representative match. Conversely it could be a set number of games.

Back to the hypothetical example very few Brisbane players would qualify for the full $10k, so that hypothetical $400,000 has been trimmed significantly, maybe even halved.

PS: What constitutes a (local) junior is debateable, so much so that it probably deserves its own thread. A place to start could be a player under the age of 21 who has not played or being contracted to another NRL club.

The Purpose
The purpose of this solution is to allow for leeway or more flexibility of the salary cap. It is to reward teams who produce (or spot and then develop) players within the confines of this criteria. It is not a permanent reward (hence the restrictions) it just helps alleviate that period in time when a club sees its young talent blossom only to be met with the terrible headache of wondering whether they’ll be able to keep this talent come negotiation time.

The critical point is tying in salary cap increases with representative honours because it is at this point where a young star becomes unmanageable for some clubs to keep. These clubs should be allowed to enjoy (just for a little longer) the benefits of their talent.

Flexability
This solution is very flexible, so much more can be added i.e. long-service (200+ game vets) can also be accommodated within this plan. Figures can be changed, scenarios altered, but tying in salary cap increases (exemptions) with salary cap increases is the basic framework.

One could rattle on, but enough has been said already so….
 

DJ1

Juniors
Messages
1,710
So basically, the teams that are already full of rep players should be given a cap increase to keep them, whilst teams without any rep players gain no benefit.

Great idea Mr Gould
 
Messages
15,203
Or we could scrap the cap, and just give the Roosters all the players in the comp, seeing as they are hell bent on signing them all anyway
 

tommytomlin

Bench
Messages
3,238
Yes, those gosh darn Roosters signing.............the same number of players as everyone else!

It's called a free market, pinko.
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
DJ1 said:
So basically, the teams that are already full of rep players should be given a cap increase to keep them, whilst teams without any rep players gain no benefit.

Great idea Mr Gould

Gee thanks DJ1 I thought it was good, but not great (being sarcastic).
Yep you’re right in regards to teams who have no rep players; there is no benefit for them. The benefit for those teams without rep players kicks in when they develop their own rep stars.
The above solution is designed to be easily understood, but as was previously mentioned it is flexible and if all went scenarios were mentioned the post would have been endless.

Enter Solution Two
All juniors developed by a club who attain rep status receive a $10,000 salary cap increase (or exemption) for each rep match they play, which as outlined previously is to help (but only temporarily) that club better retain their stars.
We’ve all seen in recent years the struggles the likes of Penrith, St George-Illawarra, Newcastle and Parramatta to name but a few have had to endure with their home-grown talent blossoming, but ultimately pricing themselves or their follow players out of their team.
This solution is designed to cater for the above situation, but only temporarily, hence the qualifying criteria. This criterion among other things helps guard against teams with ultra successful development policies.
Solution Two criteron are:
1) Local juniors receive $10,000 per representative match
2) These juniors receive this payment ($10k) for a set time or set amount of rep games only.
Once again what constitutes a (local) junior is debateable, so much so that it probably deserves its own thread. A place to start could be a player under the age of 21 who has not played or being contracted to another NRL club.

It should be pointed out that this payment only applies to players who have reached rep status for their original club and if they move to another club all benefits are wiped – this guards against certain teams (who are better off not being mentioned) buying this talent and reaping the additional benefits.
Teams that develop their own deserve more help (reward) than they are currently receiving, however it is a fine line regarding how much help they should receive.
 

ngap

Juniors
Messages
581
As I have asked before.

What is a local junior?
How will you make and keep the demographics the same?
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
Like I said that deserves a whole thread of its own, hopefully it won't sidetrack this issue to much. Still as previously mentioned there are a couple of starting points to work off namely that they are under 21 years of age and must have not played or being contracted to any other NRL club. Another starter (mentioned elsewhere on this forum) is allocating specific areas for all League clubs with a free-for-all for areas not aligned to a specific club.

At a guess the Auckland region belongs to the NZ Warriors with the rest of NZ up for grabs. I presume this is the case if it is not then it should be.
 

ngap

Juniors
Messages
581
Played or contracted at what level?
Ball, Flegg and premier league are only payed in NSW. Some teams have two feeders?

At the moment the demographics of juniors are a mess and these will keep changing as the population moves. How do you take into account Melbourne, large population but small number of players.
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,119
As I have asked before.

What is a local junior?
How will you make and keep the demographics the same?

A local junior is someone who plays for a junior club within a certain area. Eg. for a Maly junior he wound have to play near Brookvale.

I don't mind this idea, i mean at least the Rorters won't get to many concessions!!!
 

ngap

Juniors
Messages
581
So a local junior or the warriors is nyone in NZ, Melbourne Victoria, Brisbane, NQ all of Queensland.
Sounds good but will not come in unless areas are of equal potential.

What about if as a 5 year old I play for a Manly club, my parents move and at ten I play on the gold coast. A junior for Brisbane and Manly?
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
ngap said:
So a local junior or the warriors is nyone in NZ, Melbourne Victoria, Brisbane, NQ all of Queensland.
Sounds good but will not come in unless areas are of equal potential.

What about if as a 5 year old I play for a Manly club, my parents move and at ten I play on the gold coast. A junior for Brisbane and Manly?

Details oh you've hit my weak point, well I didn't want to get away from the main thrust of this argument, but righto details. Two words common sense! All these little things you are coming up with a valid points that can be worked out with pure common sense.

A five year old signs with the Manly club - right what can we do?
Off the top of my head this 5 or 10 or 15 year old signs a contract to play for the under 6's, 11's, 16's or if it's weight related then he/she signs a contract to play in those categories. Whatever category he/she is in then that is the category they are contracted to. We'll put in writing that these categories will not fall under the local junior criteria so they will be free to sign up with Souths, Wests whoever and be classified by them as their local junior. At which level we stop exempting categories and start enforcing or nailing in concrete what stipulates a local junior can be ironed out. Up to the age of 15 has been taken care off so far.
Doing the rest and finding the exact cut off point just needs agreeing upon.

Demographics, once again this can be taken care of by agreement, with the fairest most equitable solution being the logical approach to take.

Once again fair points ngap, but I believe they can be sorted.
 

ngap

Juniors
Messages
581
Junior dispensations are a good idea but the details are where the clubs won't agree as most are run by tin pot generals that don't want to give up their contol base.

The need for a commision that runs the game which is appointed, rather than elected by the clubs.
This is why I keep saying details as you need to please everyone to get a change in. As for the SOO idea it should inly work for long serving players otherwise it will just encourage clubs to buy SOOplayers to inflate the cap.
 

Ilya

Juniors
Messages
31
While what constitutes a junior can be debated non stop, i don't see the merit in rewarding the teams for producing rep players. More often than not it can be said that the spots all go to recent premiership winning teams, and this would just further separate the top teams from the bottom.
My solution would be to make 10% or 20% of a players contract (that was developed locally) exempt from the final salary cap. Or maybe it could start at 5% and rice gradually to encourage the player to stay at the club.

Another neccessary salary cap exemption is for players that do stay at the club for long periods of time. While we already have the 10 year, 100 000 dollar exemption, why not build it up from 7 years, maybe starting at 50 000, then going to 65 000 for 8 years, 80 000 for 9 years, and 100 000 for ten?
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
ngap said:
Junior dispensations are a good idea but the details are where the clubs won't agree as most are run by tin pot generals that don't want to give up their contol base.

The need for a commision that runs the game which is appointed, rather than elected by the clubs.
This is why I keep saying details as you need to please everyone to get a change in. As for the SOO idea it should inly work for long serving players otherwise it will just encourage clubs to buy SOOplayers to inflate the cap.

Good points ngap. I keep forgetting the self-serving attitude of most clubs. It’s easy to see why outsiders are hired in everyday business practices – it’s easier for them to cut through the internal politics and do what is right for the business/organisation as a whole. I believe if an idea is good enough i.e. it is beneficial for the game in general then consensus will be reached. The salary cap being a prime example, it does not please all, but it pleases enough teams to get through.
Still I certainly see where you are coming from, it’s a whole field I’ve never bothered to notice before (having to please everybody that is).

In regards to your second point however I’m not sure what you’re on about there – the SOO idea that is?
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
Ilya said:
While what constitutes a junior can be debated non stop, i don't see the merit in rewarding the teams for producing rep players. More often than not it can be said that the spots all go to recent premiership winning teams, and this would just further separate the top teams from the bottom.
My solution would be to make 10% or 20% of a players contract (that was developed locally) exempt from the final salary cap. Or maybe it could start at 5% and rice gradually to encourage the player to stay at the club.

Another neccessary salary cap exemption is for players that do stay at the club for long periods of time. While we already have the 10 year, 100 000 dollar exemption, why not build it up from 7 years, maybe starting at 50 000, then going to 65 000 for 8 years, 80 000 for 9 years, and 100 000 for ten?
Ilya
The reason for rewarding teams for producing rep players is because it is at this point where the salary cap bites the most, when teams that produce their own talent (to the point where they attain rep status) face the prospect of losing that talent or having to move other players within that organisation to accommodate the increase in salary many of these rising stars now command.

This point is where a lot of controversy and negativity regarding the cap is created.
This is where we need a bit of leeway; this is where we can minimize what I call self-destructive salary cap influences while still being fair overall. I mean the alternatives are to raise the cap (not fair for all), scrap the cap (I hope not) or have teams continually challenging the cap’s existence, which sooner or later is bound to have a detrimental affect.

As far as your suggestion about giving local juniors a 10 or 20% exemption is concerned. That is very feasible, however once again I say, that it is at the point where they reach rep status (which attracts an associated request for increase in salary) that the sh*t starts to hit the fan and teams start facing real salary cap pressures.
This is when teams (and their fans) start developing negative attitudes towards the salary cap with crap flowing on from there.
As for the long termers what you propose looks fine to me, I’d certainly like to know what the arguments would be against it (apart from usual arguments of there being too many exemptions already and what happens if a player leaves a club?).
 

Ilya

Juniors
Messages
31
Which is exactly why such exemptions would solve a great deal of problems. Rewarding teams for producing only rep players would result in a further from the buying ability of (as an example from today's league) Souths against a club like Brisbane or St George. The salary cap is in place to prevent all the rep quality players getting into one club, it's meant to distribute the top talent.
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
The salary cap's primary function in my book is to stop teams from going broke. Distrubution of talent and evenness of competition is a happy by-product.
As for the rest of what you're saying I'd like to comment, but I just do not quite understand what you are trying to say?
 
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