Sam Burgess not in Sonny's class.

[DiegoNT]

I think a lot of people are forgetting Burgess pre-2014, he was good, real good. He was also inconsistent, dropped balls and gave away a lot of penalties though.

I'd definitely agree with this. If he'd left for union at the beginning of 2014 i would of almost considered his time at Souths as a borderline flop. Even after a handful of games into the 2014 many souths fans wished he'd just go asap as he'd seemingly gaven up and wasn't putting in. Then in the last 20 weeks off 2014 he finally started dominating, and all the investment payed off.

Sonny's first stint with bulldogs was actually similar. People talk about him dominating in 2004, but he was more of an impact player of the bench. People forget that he was part of a bulldogs pack that contained Price, o'meley, mason, ryam, reni matua and asotasi all in Career best form. His remaining time at the bulldogs was plagued by injuries, inconsistentsy and suspension. When he finally looked to be living up to his potential and finally paying off on all that investment bulldogs put into him he ran off amd joined union, leaving bulldogs to collect the spoon. That's why he's still hated at Belmore.
I don't think his time at roosters was so dominate (simalar to the overstatement of Sam's 'dominance'), he took a while to get going in 2013, but by the back end of the season he was great, but in 2014 he didn't seem as interested, and he played incredibly limp in his final game. Its should also be noted that roosters finished exactly the same on 2015 without him.
Both are great players who have their ups and downs and strengths and weaknesses, to say one is better then the other is ridiculous, why can't people just enjoy both.

 

[Tommy Smith]

SBW was utterly dominant from week 3 onwards in 2013 when we beat the Broncos like 8 nil.

It took him two weeks to find his rhythm. After that he had about 20 fantastic games. Like I said, it was the best and most consistent season I've seen from a Rooster since the days of Freddy. He was also far more than a bit part player as an 18yr old in 2004. Sure he played off the bench, but as we all know bench players can play big minutes and have a huge influence on games.

So I'm not sure what MarkC is smoking, but I'd recommend kids stay away from it.

 

[Tommy Smith]

Also can someone with a rational thought process explain his apparent lack of courage? He's a great and hard hitting defender with an excellent work ethic (to anyone who actually watches him play). He's also a heavyweight boxing champion, which requires courage. As does the decision to back yourself and change sports a few times.

What kind of pleb would question his courage...:?

 

[DiegoNT]

In terms of influence on the bulldogs 2004 side if you'd have to rank the players

1. Steve Price
2. Andrew Ryan
3. Braith anasta
4. Willie mason
5. Brent Sherwin
6. Mark o'meley
7. Patten (calming influence at the back)
8. Willie Tonga (bulldogs strike weapon in the backs)
9. Sonny bill (impact of the bench)

Not ranking them as players, ranking on influence to that particular team.

 

[thorson1987]

Oh yes, it was rubbish when he flip flopped, but gee he was a quality player.

Tony Carroll was worse. Top shelf turncoat.

At least Thorn played for seperate countries in seperate sports.

 

[Perth Red]

A double turncoat, takes some beating!

 

[DiegoNT]

It's easy to say sonny-bills exit from the bulldogs wasn't that big a deal but you got to put the whole thing in context
In 2002 after the salary cap all the bulldogs players took pay cuts to keep the team together for a crack at the premiership. Only vagana and darren smith left. During 2004 salary cap pressures started catching up. First to go where price and Thurston, but the bulldogs were like, it's ok we locked up sbw, he'll be a star. Then anasta left, and bulldogs were like it's ok sbw will be a a star, then asotasi and myles left and bulldogs were like it's ok sbw will be a star, then mason and o'meley left and it was still a case its ok, we've kept sbw he'll be a star. So while all these players left and thrived at new clubs, sbw was still developing, he was injured alot, had a few suspensions, he had a few minor off field problems, while he showed glimpses of how great he would eventually be he was a bit inconsistent, and bulldogs went through the trouble of helping his family settle. When he finally looked like he was ready to become the true superstar the bulldogs had invested so much into and virtually built a team around, he went and done a midnight runner to France. Not even a phone call or an explanation to the club or to his teammates, and left them stranded in a position to collect the spoon.

 

[adamkungl]

Who cares the cheating merkins deserved it

 

[dogz08]

16-13

 

[MarkC]

So I'm not sure what MarkC is smoking, but I'd recommend kids stay away from it.

Nothing in particular.........

I agree SBW played his best football at the Roosters.

At the Dogs in 2004 it was probably Price and OMeley who laid most of the platform in the forwards, backed up Mason, SBW, Asotasi, Maitua, etc.

Then it was probably Sherwin, Anasta & Patten who contributed most in attack.

He was a cog in the machine.......

If the Dogs could go back in time and stop any player leaving, it would be Thurston first and daylight 2nd.

Probably followed by SBW, but Price was a bigger loss in the short term.

I just think most games are won in the middle, guys like Price, OMeley and Burgess play a big part. After that a quality halfback like Sherwin or Thurston is essential.

If all of those factors are even, someone like SBW can get a team over the line.
Occasionally, someone like SBW can get a team over the line with poor go forward and a bad halfback, but it never happened for the Dogs in 2007-2008.

 

[TheDalek079]

It's easy to say sonny-bills exit from the bulldogs wasn't that big a deal but you got to put the whole thing in context
In 2002 after the salary cap all the bulldogs players took pay cuts to keep the team together for a crack at the premiership. Only vagana and darren smith left. During 2004 salary cap pressures started catching up. First to go where price and Thurston, but the bulldogs were like, it's ok we locked up sbw, he'll be a star. Then anasta left, and bulldogs were like it's ok sbw will be a a star, then asotasi and myles left and bulldogs were like it's ok sbw will be a star, then mason and o'meley left and it was still a case its ok, we've kept sbw he'll be a star. So while all these players left and thrived at new clubs, sbw was still developing, he was injured alot, had a few suspensions, he had a few minor off field problems, while he showed glimpses of how great he would eventually be he was a bit inconsistent, and bulldogs went through the trouble of helping his family settle. When he finally looked like he was ready to become the true superstar the bulldogs had invested so much into and virtually built a team around, he went and done a midnight runner to France. Not even a phone call or an explanation to the club or to his teammates, and left them stranded in a position to collect the spoon.

And that is why SBW is a legend

 

[Jack_Napier]

People need to understand what Sonny did for us(Easts) off the field as well. He and Robbo came in and changed the culture and professionalism of the club off the field. We went from a bunch of lazy party boys in 2011-2012 to winning the Comp. sure there were plenty of factors but the biggest was the attitude off the field and to training of our squad. SBW is the main influence for us in this happening.

Both players are hugely influential so I really don't get the constant dick measuring contest happening at the moment.

 

[MarkC]

Both players are hugely influential so I really don't get the constant dick measuring contest happening at the moment.

I agree but someone created a thread which started the whole argument, that is what we are debating.

If the title was 'SBW (2013) and SB (2014) are great players' I would simply post "I agree".

But I would also include JT (2005-2015) IMO he is clearly the stand out player in the comp for 10+ years and likely to remain that in 2016.

 

[thorson1987]

It was a truthful post and too the point.

You post garbage here.

to*

 

[sensesmaybenumbed]

to*

Great post, mate.

 

[kbw]

It's easy to say sonny-bills exit from the bulldogs wasn't that big a deal but you got to put the whole thing in context
In 2002 after the salary cap all the bulldogs players took pay cuts to keep the team together for a crack at the premiership. Only vagana and darren smith left. During 2004 salary cap pressures started catching up. First to go where price and Thurston, but the bulldogs were like, it's ok we locked up sbw, he'll be a star. Then anasta left, and bulldogs were like it's ok sbw will be a a star, then asotasi and myles left and bulldogs were like it's ok sbw will be a star, then mason and o'meley left and it was still a case its ok, we've kept sbw he'll be a star. So while all these players left and thrived at new clubs, sbw was still developing, he was injured alot, had a few suspensions, he had a few minor off field problems, while he showed glimpses of how great he would eventually be he was a bit inconsistent, and bulldogs went through the trouble of helping his family settle. When he finally looked like he was ready to become the true superstar the bulldogs had invested so much into and virtually built a team around, he went and done a midnight runner to France. Not even a phone call or an explanation to the club or to his teammates, and left them stranded in a position to collect the spoon.

I think you are down playing how well SBW was playing at that time.
You also left out a little detail about the Bulldogs promising SBW a certain amount then down the track they decided to reduce it considerably. I think alot of people would have walked in the circmstances

 

[MarkC]

I think you are down playing how well SBW was playing at that time.
You also left out a little detail about the Bulldogs promising SBW a certain amount then down the track they decided to reduce it considerably. I think alot of people would have walked in the circmstances

Actually I think it was a payment from a 3rd party sponsor which clashed with an NRL sponsor, and the NRL did not allow it.

I don't think it was anything to do with the Dogs.

No doubt SBW could make more money elsewhere as the Dogs management in that era were sticking to the rules and spirit of the salary cap.
That resulted in a totally rubbish squad, that deservedly got the spoon.

I can well understand the temptation for SBW to leave and it was mainly $$$$$, but coaching and the strength of the team would have been a factor.

However, if anything, he owed the Dogs a favor, not the other way around.

But at the end of the day the Dogs coach and management in that era were not up to the job, in some ways the 2004 premiership as the ROI on bringing a very talented bunch of players through the ranks.

In other ways I wonder how it happened, as the coach and management were clueless, and the players I am talking about mainly came though the juniors.

Whatever their other flaws the Dogs scouting and recruitment prior to 2002 was very good.

 

[thorson1987]

Great post, mate.

What can I say, I'm a truth teller.

 

[aads]

Yes you are right he is not in Sonny's class cos he never walked out on a contract and caught a plane without his team or teammates knowing. He was let go by his team.

Why are you banging on about a Rugby player anyway - get caught up in the wrong forum?

 

[Bigcoq]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukAXfaDfVcE&feature=player_detailpage