Sam Burgess retires

[Chimp]

Sam hasn't been told he has to retire - he's been told he'll need around 2 years out of the game due to Ops and rehabilitation timescales.
Clearly that would hurt Souths (and is very unfortunate) having so much salary cap sat on the sidelines, and at the end of that 2 years, he's going to be getting towards mid-thirties and no guarantee of still being able to cut the mustard.
Don't blame Sam for deciding to call it a day, don't blame Souths for doing what they're doing - pay Sam his money that he's rightfully owed in his contract, but get it off the cap in anyway possible. BUT, it is obviously a salary cap rort and if the NRL are serious and/or fair, they'd not allow it. Allowing it to happen opens up plenty of avenues for clubs to rort the system for players who are either injured or lose form later in their careers.

 

[Perth Red]

You really think the NRL might smell a rat and step in? Souffs have just had two of the highest profile players sail off into the sunset, get paid without their money on the cap (yet to be determined with Burgess but we know the outcome) and the NRL has done nothing. I dont share your confidence that they would be capable. They have rules about it now and only use them when its easy/suits them.

You're wrong, the NRL hasn't done nothing in those cases, it sanctioned it (Burgess to be determined). And there in lies the problem with the current set up. It is open to accusations of favourtism. Better we have a black and white system and the NRL deals with clubs that are repeat users or clearly rorting it. I still say an independent medical review will mean it would be very hard to rort it. It shouldn't be a case by case basis, cant play any more? get paid out and off you go and off the cap. Pretty clear cut then.

 

[Tiger5150]

You're wrong, the NRL hasn't done nothing in those cases, it sanctioned it (Burgess to be determined). And there in lies the problem with the current set up. It is open to accusations of favourtism. Better we have a black and white system and the NRL deals with clubs that are repeat users or clearly rorting it. I still say an independent medical review will mean it would be very hard to rort it. It shouldn't be a case by case basis, cant play any more? get paid out and off you go and off the cap. Pretty clear cut then.

I dont have a massive problem with your proposal, I think its still open to rorting but as you say probably better than what we have now.

As chimp pointed out it probably wouldnt have helped Souffs because a truly independent review would have said 18months out and his contract is 3 years.

How would that have stopped the obvious rorting in the GI case?

 

[siv]

I totally understand your point and I also get the obvious logic that if a player cant play for you then why should that money count in the cap, but my point is that it is so open and prone to be rorted that there does need to be rules around it, and the NRL does have rules around it, and IMO Souffs are clearly rorting these rules.



Where the payment from doesnt matter to anyone except the club and the insurance company. Player gets paid and so they should. Doesnt matter where the money comes from. It matters whether or not it counts in the cap.

It doesnt matter if they get a job and get paid that way, unless it is an obvious rort to get around the cap.

Let me give you a hypothetical. Darius Boyd is stinking it up at the Broncos. He is clearly on the declining slide of his career. Trouble is he has (I think) two more years to go on his Contract, so lets say thats worth $1.5M, So if tomorrow Darius says "You know what, I think Im done, my heart isnt in it any more, but I dont want that $1.5M, Brisbane has been good to me"...he leaves the roster, money comes off the cap and then he starts his job as motivational speaker for the Brisbane Broncos on $500K for the next 3 years. You have no problem with that?

In that case he moves off the 30+6 player cap

As he is no longer being paid as a player

He isnt medically retired so not getting a insurance payout but now has a job in the football department - his wage gets included in the $5.4 mil football operations cap

 

[Tiger5150]

In that case he moves off the 30+6 player cap

As he is no longer being paid as a player

He isnt medically retired so not getting a insurance payout but now has a job in the football department - his wage gets included in the $5.4 mil football operations cap

Ok and for about the 15th time....what stops a club offering a 28yo player a 6 year contract for a smaller annual fee but the same overall, knowing that after 3 or 4 years they can just "pull a GI" and the player gets paid the full amount but it doesnt come off the cap. Surely you can see the rort potential in that?

 

[siv]

IMO Souffs are clearly rorting these rules.

I disagree

They have champions - members of 2010-19 team of the decade who legitamately just cannot play anymore

It has happened countless times ober the last 112 years

I am certain Souths would prefer these two players to play out their full contracts rather than retire.

Instead you proposing they play with 28+6 players on a $2 mil reduced salary cap

They didnt try to rort the cap - shit happened

 

[siv]

pull a GI"

Players walk away from contracts all the time

In regards to a medical retirement - you are calling into question the integrity of the doctor

Is this different from a Harvard Degree ?

 

[Tiger5150]

They have champions - members of 2010-19 team of the decade who legitamately just cannot play anymore

Im sure thats the case with Burgess, but in Inglis own words, he wasnt injured and it wasnt a mental health thing. He just couldnt be arsed.

I am certain Souths would prefer these two players to play out their full contracts rather than retire.

Again I am sure thats the case with Burgess but I dont think it is with GI. At the time there was a lot of coverage about how Inglis was unfit and overweight at the start of the year prior to his retirement. In the state that GI was in I think Souffs would rather the $1.5M back in their cap.

Instead you proposing they play with 28+6 players on a $2 mil reduced salary cap

No. 30+6 on a salary cap reduced by whatever Inglis & Burgess are getting paid. You do realise that is exactly what the case is for the Tigers for the next two years because of Farah dont you? But Souffs are special?

You realise that is exactly what happened to Manly with Matai & Stewart dont you? But Souffs cos?

They didnt try to rort the cap - shit happened

Possibly....but why shouldnt they operate under the same rules as everyone else?

I disagree

Clearly we both disagree with each other, but thank you for the civil discussion.

 

[Tiger5150]

Players walk away from contracts all the time

How many players have walked away from $1.5M dollars? Seriously. Name one.

Would Inglis have "walked away" without the promise of a job afterwards?

Can you explain why when the Tigers pushed Farah out of the club and offered him a post career job, Tigers get fined and the money out of their cap for the next two years...but Souffs do it twice for a total of $5.1M but thats all sweet?

I think Ive said the obvious enough times, Im boring myself and others Im sure.

 

[siv]

How many players have walked away from $1.5M dollars? Seriously. Name one.

Would Inglis have "walked away" without the promise of a job afterwards?

Can you explain why when the Tigers pushed Farah out of the club and offered him a post career job, Tigers get fined and the money out of their cap for the next two years...but Souffs do it twice for a total of $5.1M but thats all sweet?

I think Ive said the obvious enough times, Im boring myself and others Im sure.

Inglis walked away

Sounds like you dont understand the impact that mental health can have on people

 

[siv]

You do realise that is exactly what the case is for the Tigers for the next two years because of Farah dont you?

Farah situation was different. He was offered a job after football as part of his contract negotiations.

But I disagree on the NRL ruling on two fronts. One life post football is different as long as the job wage is not excessive.

2 - the post football job offer was withdrawn.

To me its the same as Cronks job at Easts post football situation. Everyone knows it was also offered along with his Harvard Degree before he signed, and the degree goes on well beyond football career

 

[Chimp]

Inglis walked away

Sounds like you dont understand the impact that mental health can have on people

He didn't though did he, he's still getting paid.
You're extremely naive if you don't believe Bennett/Souths were in his ear persuading him to do this.
Yes, he may have mental health issues, yes he was massively out of shape, and yes, he may have been happy to give the game up, but I guarantee he'd have stuck around for his pay cheque if there wasn't an alternative earning opportunity.

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

I totally understand your point and I also get the obvious logic that if a player cant play for you then why should that money count in the cap, but my point is that it is so open and prone to be rorted that there does need to be rules around it, and the NRL does have rules around it, and IMO Souffs are clearly rorting these rules.


?

on one hand you say “I also get the obvious logic that if a player cant play for you then why should that money count in the cap,”


Then you say “Souffs are clearly rorting these rules.”

if Souths are rorting it you’re saying Sam is faking his injuries. You can’t have it both ways

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

Was his other knee wasn't it?

I don’t believe so but happy for it to be shown so. Also I’d like to know what the injury was aside from “a knee injury” and what the recouperation time is for said “knee injury”

 

[simmo05]

It was the other knee.



Matulino also has zero to offer the Tigers....because we have already paid him his Contract money. Thats how it works when you are not trying the play the system. I agree with you that Burgess will not be making coffee, like GI, I actually dont expect he will have to do anything for the money.

You are also correct that there is no point continuing this discussion. If you cant see that what Souffsa re doing is at least

I don’t believe so but happy for it to be shown so. Also I’d like to know what the injury was aside from “a knee injury” and what the recouperation time is for said “knee injury”

f**ked if I know, you should just trust the medical expert you blokes have been jerking off over

 

[Tiger5150]

Inglis walked away

Sounds like you dont understand the impact that mental health can have on people

Did he get paid? Did he get a "job" at Souffs to get his money anyway?

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

Ok and for about the 15th time....what stops a club offering a 28yo player a 6 year contract for a smaller annual fee but the same overall, knowing that after 3 or 4 years they can just "pull a GI" and the player gets paid the full amount but it doesnt come off the cap. Surely you can see the rort potential in that?

Or even a club signing a 28yo with a busted knee to a 3year contract with a player option of one more year.
Worth a gamble for a desperate club looking to rebuild

 

[Tiger5150]

Farah situation was different. He was offered a job after football as part of his contract negotiations.

Nope, you are wrong, it was offered to him as we kicked him out to Souffs. He was paid every cent he was owed on his contracts with the Tigers (there was backended money left over, thats why we paid some of his wage at Souffs).

But you are right in one way, Farah situation was different, he got paid every cent of his contract before we kicked him out to Souffs and he was offered a post career job. Inglis "walked away" from $1.5M but then was offered a job. Nothing to see here.

Tigers get fined & salary cap reduced for two years, Souffs all is ok.

 

[Wily Ole Dog]

Farah situation was different. He was offered a job after football as part of his contract negotiations.
r

Farah was a toxic influence at the club. That’s why they wanted to get rid of him. He was pure poison

he refused to go so the only way to get rid of him was to offer him a bucket load of money to make coffee for MaGuire after he retired.

no if’s not but’s, it was a rort that got caught

 

[Tiger5150]

on one hand you say “I also get the obvious logic that if a player cant play for you then why should that money count in the cap,”


Then you say “Souffs are clearly rorting these rules.”

if Souths are rorting it you’re saying Sam is faking his injuries. You can’t have it both ways

Well actually you can. Sam isnt faking his injuries, they just dont meet the criteria set down clearly in the NRL rules for medical retirement. Its pretty clear and straightforward......so here you go, here is a job for 10 years.

Im sure if they had their time over now Manly would have found "jobs" for Matai & Stewart rather than suffering under a reduced cap.