Same sh*t, different smell?

[Burwood]

I think the biggest thing Smith has bought to the club is his ability to discern where each player should actually be playing. He knows what position they would be better suited.
Look at the following examples:

Kidley: He is a born Rover, injecting himself into the attack where he sees fit, whether that be a dummy-half or second reciever. Yes, he could have done that playing at Lock, but the worload would have made him alot less effective in attack.

Patto/Seu Seu/McManus: All 3 have been successes in their move to FG. Smith's talent with blooding juniors is outstanding.

Tolar/Newton: They both look like they have found the positions that suit them. Newton's workload goes up by 200% whenever he plays prop, while Tolar has a bit more freedom to roam and use his brain at lock.

Wooly: He has always been more of a bench player IMO. Very solid and his workrate has improved considerably under Smith.

Kidley was playing a rover role towards the end of last year when he started going well at fullback. Smith just gave it a fancy name. Best part about Kidley's new game we saw last round- not a single kick!

McManus and Seu Seu were played in first grade through necessity more than anything. With Buderus, Quigley and Brown out injured we didn't really have many choices for hooker. And I wouldn't say Seu Seu has been a success- looked very uncomfortable with the pace of the game. We lost a lot of backline depth last year, so McManus who has a lot of experience in Premier League was always going to be in contention. Patterson is probably the only player we have really seen come through the grades with success so far. He hasn't been a standout each week, but he is definitely showing that he is ready for the transition to first grade.

I'm not sure what to make of Tolar's move to lock. If it is suppose to give him a bit more freedom and creativity than it looks to have failed so far. 2 games in the position and he is yet to throw a single offload or do anything memorable. Same goes for Newton- I haven't seen anything from him as a front rower to suggest that he deserves a go in front of a guy like White.

Woolie has been given the same opportunities of playing on the bench or in the starting side as he had with Hagan. Neither coach saw them as specialist benchies.

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Rover I cant remember who said it initially but to me its the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

That many clubs have players who do similar things Karmichael Hunt and Matty Bowen especially spring to mind.

I dont know that we should be bragging its taking the Knights ten years to do this after most clubs have being doing it for 10!

 

[Burwood]

Rover I cant remember who said it initially but to me its the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

That many clubs have players who do similar things Karmichael Hunt and Matty Bowen especially spring to mind.

I dont know that we should be bragging its taking the Knights ten years to do this after most clubs have being doing it for 10!

Pretty much everyone when I started the Rover thread a few weeks back claiming it to be a revolutionary position:lol:

 

[Ben]

Its just been given a name for the first time.

And i'm not sure if Newton actual workload has gone up. Would have to check up the hit-up stats for that. But he is playing with more aggression now.

 

[Pika]

If Newtones workload has not gone up, I would argue the quality has improved.

As far as Seu Seu, Patterson and the like are concerned, while the fact they were put in first grade from necessity is true, what we must realise is that the effectiveness of these players was greatly improved by the fact that they had trained in the first grade squad from pre season.

This is something Smith certainly deserves credit for and never happened under Hagan.

Ling, Walsh, Seu Seu, Tafua, Toupou, Natausch... the list goes on, all benifited (and are still benifiting) from exposure to training with the senior squad.

Personally, I think this has made the transition for these players to top grade a comfprtable one.

 

[CJKnight]

Newtons stats for the 3 games of second row:

47/66/72 meters
17/14/16 tackles

Newtons stats for the 2 games at prop:

94/95 meters
24/18 tackles

Certainly bigger figures when he plays in the front-row.

 

[Ben]

Well the figures do show that playing at prop it does improve the quality of his runs but it doesnt necessarily improve the quantity.

However, i'm still not that keen with Newton at prop. In my opinion, he should be running wider and targetting the opposite five-eighth. That is what he did so well in 2004 and why change a strategy that has worked so well in the past.

Then we can have Simpson doing the exact same on the other side and then our forwards will start rolling over the advantage line and we can give more space for Mullen to work.

 

[keeney]

Newton is a very good 2nd rower when he wants to be. He's too light to be a good prop. The quantity of his stats can be indicative of an improvement in motivation as much as the transition to prop. The best run I rememebr from Sunday was Newton running wide .

 

[roopy]

Newton is a fair second rower at best, and bloody ordinary at worst.

Smith told him from about game two of the season to go hard at the line early in the game to give us a good start. He did it well, and the obvious conclusion is that he should be making the hard yards as a prop.
We no longer have to worry about his poor offloads, his going missing when he runs out of puff, or his breaking down backline moves by getting in the middle of things.
He has a simple job. Run hard, make the hard yards early, then get off. He was born to do it (or rather - it is the only thing he is good for).

 

[Nuffy]

Agreed Roopy,

Its nice to see hes dropped the hair brained offloads. We do however need a offloader in the backrow, to give us some 2nd phase play.

That is why we need Abes back to the lock position.

If we keep Newton then Reynoldson must go.

 

[roopy]

If Newtones workload has not gone up, I would argue the quality has improved.

As far as Seu Seu, Patterson and the like are concerned, while the fact they were put in first grade from necessity is true, what we must realise is that the effectiveness of these players was greatly improved by the fact that they had trained in the first grade squad from pre season.

This is something Smith certainly deserves credit for and never happened under Hagan.

Ling, Walsh, Seu Seu, Tafua, Toupou, Natausch... the list goes on, all benifited (and are still benifiting) from exposure to training with the senior squad.

Personally, I think this has made the transition for these players to top grade a comfprtable one.

I'm amazed at the progress of some of the forwards.
It just goes to show that Hagan didn't have the 'gift' of coaching forwards.

Mark Tuafua is close to a miracle.

Laban has gone from a try hard benchie in Flegg to a very impressive starting player in PL.

Paterson was holding his own in PL at the end of last year - but now he is a star in FG.

Tolar and White were nothing special last year - both lucky to play firstgrade - but now they are true firstgraders.

The great thing - i think all will continue to improve as the year goes on. At this time i think it would be a brave man who would try to name our top forward pack at the end of the season. Willie Tupou, MarkTuafua, Sargeant, Snowden, Ling, any of them could be holding down a firstgrade position by the end of the season.

 

[Pika]

Strangely, we have not really purchased big in the forward department. Sargent 'fell' in our lap, and its not like Tafua had one good year in local Rugby, the kid has been a star for years. Great signing.

Considering that, last year I was constantly concerned with lack of depth in the forwards. Suddenly we have a PL squad with a pack to rival any, and most of them banging on the door for first grade opportunities.

The players are all the same........ the feeling is just totally different.

 

[Yosh]

Yeah no doubt Smith has a plan. We were just all too blind to see it. We expected too much too soon. I think we will start seeing the "Smith Knights" not the "Coached by Smith but Getting Over the Hagan Hangover Knights". We will get top 8.

 

[CJKnight]

Is it just me or do we not really need to buy a prop next season? I know we are supposedly looking at Kite, o'Meley, Clinton, Ryles, etc... but with the talent in PL and our recent signings, I think our money would be better spent with a half or centre.

Sargent is biting at the bit to get into FG
I understand Taufua and Snowden are both in outstanding form
Woolnough's work effort has been outstanding in '08
and with Patto + Simmo in the second row we have a pack that could rival any other in the comp.

 

[Yosh]

BUT KITE.... I think he is amazing... We could really do well with a prop like that. Ryles is also in career best form, but might cost us a bit, considering this will probably be his last contract and we are luring him away from the saints. But yeah KITE!!!

 

[Alex28]

We need strength across the board. We definately need a prop - our defence against Canberra was appalling. We need an experienced leader to truly run the forwards. Simmo isn't a natural leader - he is a worker. Perry...Wooly...Reynoldsen...all not leaders (heck - 2 of them are barely workers). We have not had a leader of the forwards since BK and we sorely miss it.

A guy like O'Meley would be a good leader. Kite I don't know enough about. Ryles...god I can see alot of Perry in him at times...

We need a back and a half too - however we need dominance and leadership in the forwards as well. They are all a priority...

 

[K-Man]

Is it just me or do we not really need to buy a prop next season? I know we are supposedly looking at Kite, o'Meley, Clinton, Ryles, etc... but with the talent in PL and our recent signings, I think our money would be better spent with a half or centre.

Sargent is biting at the bit to get into FG
I understand Taufua and Snowden are both in outstanding form
Woolnough's work effort has been outstanding in '08
and with Patto + Simmo in the second row we have a pack that could rival any other in the comp.

I tend to agree. I think the money would be better spent on a top class outside back, a solid playmaker like Monaghan, and an impact forward (not necessarily very expensive, but just someone a bit different to our current batch).

I think our front row depth will be reasonable next year, Ryles would be good but won't change things too much, whereas a really aggressive wide runner who can actually offload the ball - like a Thaiday, Moi Moi, Pritchard, Watmough etc is the kind of forward I think we lack.

I don't know if anyone like that is on the market, but I just don't want to see us spend fortunes on a prop like Ryles, then a year later everyone goes bidding for a player like Fa'alogo, Pritchard or Watmough and we have missed the boat.