Samoa and Tonga look for defections from Kiwis

[International RL]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23059606-23214,00.html

Samoa, Tonga reach out to stars

By Josh Massoud
January 16, 2008
SAMOA and Tonga are set to profit from the New Zealand coaching mutiny, with fears disgruntled Kiwi stars could defect to their native countries for this year's World Cup.
Tonga coach Jim Dymock said some players were "definitely" poised to switch allegiances if the imbroglio surrounding New Zealand coach Gary Kemble was not resolved.
Of the current New Zealand squad, many are eligible for either Samoa or Tonga. Roy Asotasi, David Fa'alogo, Jeremy Smith (Samoa) and Fuifui Moimoi, Taniela Tuiaki, Manu Vatuvei (Tonga) are just a handful of the high-profile NRL stars with dual status.
"I definitely think it's an option for them," Dymock said.
"Fuifui and Taniela went across to New Zealand from Tonga last year, but both found it pretty hard to cop losing all those Tests.
"They heard about our trip back home (to play the junior Kangaroos) and thought it would have been good to see their families."
Speaking on the condition of anonymity, one dual eligible New Zealand player told The Daily Telegraph that defecting was a possible option.
"Everyone is pretty much behind Roy. Gary Kemble tried to do a good job, but he is out of his depth a bit at this level," the player said.
"We haven't really spoken about playing for Samoa or Tonga, but it is an option."
Samoa happily welcomed back former Kiwis Nigel Vagana, Tony Puletua, Willie Talau and Ali Lauitiiti for their successful qualifier against Lebanon late last year.
Vagana was instrumental in luring fellow stars to the Samoan cause, and coach John Ackland is closely monitoring developments across the Tasman.

What a farce...You can't just chop and change because you feel like it. One nation for life ffs.

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

What a farce...You can't just chop and change because you feel like it. One nation for life ffs.

Depends what side of the bed they wake up on...

 

[hutch]

if fui fui and tuaki go back, our sport is an abolsute joke and we are 20 years behind where i thought we were.

 

[roopy]

The Islander guys see that playing for the country of their 'roots' in the upcoming world cup is actually viable career wise now.
Years ago the kiwi side was well below the australian side in skills etc, but put a black jersey on a reserve grader and suddenly he grew a foot taller and was ready to play with incredible pride.
I can see Tonga and Samoa both finding this sort of passion.
I love it.
It's game on for the WC. These boys don't think they are showing up to make up the numbers - they think they are going to give it their best shot for a team they have pride in and think they can serve it up to the big three.
If these guys feel the passion and want to have a red hot go for Tonga or Samoa, that makes them Tongan or Samoan in my books.

 

[roughyedspud]

ha ha ha i love it....:lol:

 

[kiwileaguefan]

Just shows how pathetic our International game is, and to be honest we havent changed since 2000.

After the World Cup once Tonga only gets to play pacific teams they will try and get back into the kiwis or Aussie sides (mateo etc)

Gee i wonder if we are ever going to see this out in our International game. Maybe we should just have the three year residenacy rule and born there or parents born there and that it.

Its interesting that its all ways Tonga, Samoa and Cook Islands trying to get Kiwi born players while Fiji keeps on working with its domestic players.

 

[Coastbloke]

The Islander guys see that playing for the country of their 'roots' in the upcoming world cup is actually viable career wise now.
Years ago the kiwi side was well below the australian side in skills etc, but put a black jersey on a reserve grader and suddenly he grew a foot taller and was ready to play with incredible pride.
I can see Tonga and Samoa both finding this sort of passion.
I love it.
It's game on for the WC. These boys don't think they are showing up to make up the numbers - they think they are going to give it their best shot for a team they have pride in and think they can serve it up to the big three.
If these guys feel the passion and want to have a red hot go for Tonga or Samoa, that makes them Tongan or Samoan in my books.

It really is up to the RLIF to work on this.

Samoa looks to have a very strong team of Samoans...

Seriously, look at the result of the Wellington Test....

I would rather have seen a result of Australia 44 Samoa 26 in front of 20,000 at a ground like EAS than 16,000 watch a 58-0 joke....

 

[roughyedspud]

Its interesting that its all ways Tonga, Samoa and Cook Islands trying to get Kiwi born players

it works both ways mate,many players have stated they have only opted for australia or NZ instead of a island nation because they want to play the "big games".. and many people have often wondered if the ARL & NZRL purposefully don't organise games against the islanders to aid the switch...i honestly think the ARL will keep tonga down to tempt feleti mateo to the roos...feleti is a strong character,he could have dumped tonga like moimoi & tuiaki did but he's stayed with them because he has a chance to play for tonga in big games and he will continue to play for them if tonga get further shots at the big time.

so until a structure is put in place to enable them to play or have a chance to play against the big nations we will continue to see this nation swapping...

richard lewis' 10 year plan which,if brought in, will see the winner of a pacific cup play in the 4 nations should go a hell of a long way to help stop it...

here in britain we could and have (gilmour & carvell) seen players switiching from a celtic nation to england for the same reasons many islanders have..which is why we need a euro cup to find the 4th team in the 4 nations,giving france automatic qualification will lead wales,scots & irish "stars" to opt for england

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Well I think I speak for everyone here saying that I have no confidence in the RLIF. Especially the commitee. I think its the structure of the commitee is the base of the problem. There is clearly a power balance in favour of Australia and then Great Britan follwed by NZ.

Right there is the problem in my eyes. I think if we had representatives from some playing nations, Australia, NZ, England, France, Tonga, Wales, Fiji, PNG, Scotland, Ireland, Samoa and Lebanon and allow them votes in a way that the United Nations vote on their leader and vote on issues. This way the major nations still have the most power but not absolute power. Here is what I mean, a democracy;
Australia - 350 votes
England - 300 votes
NZ - 270 votes
France - 190 votes
PNG - 190 votes
Tonga - 150 Votes
Wales - 150 Votes
Fiji - 70 votes
Scotland - 80 Votes
Ireland - 100 Votes
Lebanon - 100 Votes
Samoa - 120 Votes
(obviously tweeking is required)
Thats 2070 votes in total, and with this system, it would guarentee that everyone has a voice to be heard. Everyone could decide whether or not they want Colin Love as chairman, everyone could decide what the best policy should be reguarding representative eligability, etc.

Thoughts? (I relly like the idea)

 

[kiwileaguefan]

...i honestly think the ARL will keep tonga down to tempt feleti mateo to the roos...feleti is a strong character,he could have dumped tonga like moimoi & tuiaki did but he's stayed with them because he has a chance to play for tonga in big games and he will continue to play for them if tonga get further shots at the big time.

No, remember he said in an article last year that he will play for Tonga at the World Cup then will decide about Australia. This was the same tim he was carving up in the NRL, he also went on saying he could play for GB too.

 

[nadera78]

All of those Kiwis who were standing up for Moi Moi and Tuiaki a couple of months ago will no doubt be maintaining their viewpoint oif a series of defections takes place in the coming year!

This really is a pathetic situation.

 

[mean_maori_mean]

please none will be allowed to go back - certainly not for world cup

Some of these players suggested have already been barred from the kiwis due to on field and off field performances.

This also highlights some of the guys arrogance. Seriously flaky - sooks - what happens when you have too many islanders in your team.

 

[mark2]

Lets not forget the worst culprits are Australia.

All through their Rugby League history they`ve raped other countries for players but its just got worse in recent times.

Hunt, Civinoceva,Carroll,Tuquiri,Dymock etc. etc. Bobby Fulton for crying out loud.

Stones and glass houses??

 

[mean_maori_mean]

please none will be allowed to go back - certainly not for world cup

Some of these players suggested have already been barred from the kiwis due to on field and off field performances.

This also highlights some of the guys arrogance. Seriously flaky - sooks .

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Lets not forget the worst culprits are Australia.

All through their Rugby League history they`ve raped other countries for players but its just got worse in recent times.

Hunt, Civinoceva,Carroll,Tuquiri,Dymock etc. etc. Bobby Fulton for crying out loud.

Stones and glass houses??

FFS

 

[hutch]

Lets not forget the worst culprits are Australia.

All through their Rugby League history they`ve raped other countries for players but its just got worse in recent times.

Hunt, Civinoceva,Carroll,Tuquiri,Dymock etc. etc. Bobby Fulton for crying out loud.

Stones and glass houses??

how dare australia pick australians in their team!

tried not to bite but couldnt help myself. australia have never stolen players from any other country.

 

[kiwileaguefan]

It sound slike NZRL will not support the players swapping countries:

The players are threatening a boycott but that seems unlikely. Some with Polynesian heritage have explored their chances of switching to Tonga, and to the strong Samoa side which is stacked with ex-Kiwis, but were told they are ineligible under the Rugby League International Federation rules.

From NZHerald

 

[roopy]

In a perfect world Australia would have last 'dibs' on any player.
If a guy could play for two countries including Aus, it would be in the best interests of the game for him to play for the other country.
Australia would maybe lose 5 or 10% of their potential, and other countries who picked up Mason, Kite, Petro etc would improve 20%.

 

[hutch]

it works both ways mate,many players have stated they have only opted for australia or NZ instead of a island nation because they want to play the "big games".. and many people have often wondered if the ARL & NZRL purposefully don't organise games against the islanders to aid the switch...i honestly think the ARL will keep tonga down to tempt feleti mateo to the roos...feleti is a strong character,he could have dumped tonga like moimoi & tuiaki did but he's stayed with them because he has a chance to play for tonga in big games and he will continue to play for them if tonga get further shots at the big time.

so until a structure is put in place to enable them to play or have a chance to play against the big nations we will continue to see this nation swapping...

richard lewis' 10 year plan which,if brought in, will see the winner of a pacific cup play in the 4 nations should go a hell of a long way to help stop it...

here in britain we could and have (gilmour & carvell) seen players switiching from a celtic nation to england for the same reasons many islanders have..which is why we need a euro cup to find the 4th team in the 4 nations,giving france automatic qualification will lead wales,scots & irish "stars" to opt for england

while i agree with almost everything you have said spud, and dont get me wrong, i would love feleti mateo to play his whole career with tonga, i would have liked to see where his loyatlies would have lied if he was picked for australia and tonga at the same time, or he was forced to choose one nation for life. if he did defect to australia, the arl could justify themselves by saying they are not breaking any of the rlif's rules and are just picking an australian (mateo is an aussie as well). if there were stronger rules in place preventing players from switching nations, it would give the impression the players such as mateo were playing for their respective country for the right reasons, and not using tonga as a stepping stone as moi moi and tuaki did.

however, if tonga did get the chance to play more reguarly against the big nations, would moi moi and tuaki have switched to nz?

this is why the rlif should be completely seperate of the arl. im certain the arl dont organise games between themselves and nations like tonga not because of the reasons you said spud, but because of a few other reasons. first one being they have no idea how to run international sport, also because they bow to the nrl clubs pressure and because they have no confidence in the product and dont think it will make money. i do hope richard lewis' plan takes place, its great to see someone with a vision for once.

 

[hutch]

In a perfect world Australia would have last 'dibs' on any player.
If a guy could play for two countries including Aus, it would be in the best interests of the game for him to play for the other country.
Australia would maybe lose 5 or 10% of their potential, and other countries who picked up Mason, Kite, Petro etc would improve 20%.

maybe, but then we would have teams full of aussies and get smashed even more so by the media.

also, there would be less of an incentive for a country to develop their domestic comp and homegrown players because they could just rely on their australians to make the national squad competitive.

plus then we have the added problem with players such as mason, kite who have one aussie parent and one tongan parent.

our eligibility laws are ok, its just the fact that you can switch countries that makes it a farce.