Scrums: Let's Make 'Em Useful Again...

[ram raid]

As to getting rid of them altogether, bybdoing so you would remove one of the few times during a game where the players and the officials get a chance to catch their breath. You cannot expect them, interchange or no, to keep running for a full 40 minutes per half non-stop.

Yes you can. They're professional athletes. AFL players are expected to do it. George Rose's career might be cut short though.

 

[ek999]

You need to know what you're talking about before posting. AFL has unlimited interchange and players are going on and off constantly

 

[Captain Apollo]

Yes you can. They're professional athletes. AFL players are expected to do it. George Rose's career might be cut short though.

AFL players do not run full out at anywhere near fullpace for the entire game. They do not have to move up and back with a defensive line like league players do. Being professional players might make them better conditioned that non-professionals, but that does not mean they are invulnerable.

 

[ram raid]

Seriously 40 minutes of constant exertion is not extraordinary at all. But if it's really that important introduce a 30 seconds break where they used to have scrums. I don't think it is though.

 

[ram raid]

AFL players do not run full out at anywhere near fullpace for the entire game. They do not have to move up and back with a defensive line like league players do. Being professional players might make them better conditioned that non-professionals, but that does not mean they are invulnerable.

You must wonder how Marathon runners complete the race without having a rest.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The reason scrums, like play the balls, became "uncontested" was because the league wanted to reduce the penalities for infrinegments. There are that many rules for scrums that it was one facet of the game where a penalty was just about as lilely as one side winning the ball at a scrum. Hence they started tinkering with them to reduce the incidence of penalties - that was why they removed the requirement for the ball being placed in the centre of the tunnel at the feed as the first step.

As to getting rid of them altogether, bybdoing so you would remove one of the few times during a game where the players and the officials get a chance to catch their breath. You cannot expect them, interchange or no, to keep running for a full 40 minutes per half non-stop. They are human beings not machines.

Additionally it is also one of the few times when set plays get used due to the lesser number of players in the defensive line.

To use the 9s not having them as an example is poor as they played games of 9 minute halves and had no restiction on interchanges during a game.

This was the point i was trying to make, though. We just dont get this any more...

 

[ek999]

Anyone play ET's Rugby League? The set plays from scrums and taps were awesome.

 

[POPEYE]

Just ask the coaches what players are going to play in jumpers 1-7 before the game and deny those players the right to pack into a scrum . . . Dessie can throw a jumper to his wife for all I care

 

[CoachMan]

How about taking it back to mod league style. Scrum can't break until first receiver gets it or a player attacks from 7/13. The referee is already telling the players when to break

Keeps the forwards ( or whoever ) bound and out of the play longer, creates space, and doesn't drastically change the game.

 

[Parra]

Hell no.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Traditionally it is the halfback who feeds the ball. The hooker is usually in the scrum. ;-)

:lol: Duh, thats what I meant, teach me for not reading my posts.

 

[Nightward]

Nightward, most modern day league payers would not have that much knowldge of scrums and scrummaging as you think. If they've been playing league since, say Under 7s, in Mini-League (which is for Under 7s through to Under 9s) the rules provide for very few opportunities for scrums (e.g. both teams knock the ball on). Thus they can play a whole season and maybe only pack into 1 or 2 scrums in that whole time. Additionally the scrums have no pushing in them.

Even when they get to Under 10s, which is where Mod League rules apply (from Under 10s to Under 12s), they still rarely get scrums - only difference is they go from 8 players scrums to 10 players scrums (Under 10s and 11) or 12 players scrums (Under 12s).

Thus when they get to Ubnder 13s, when full international rules apply, with the safe play code which is adopted in junior rugby league this means that scrums are depowered, there is no pushing/pulling or screwing allowed, only hookers can strike for the ball.

So by the time they proigress to SG Ball, or Toyota Cup, players have very limited experience with contested scrumagging at all.

Without any disrespect intended... and?

Modern players don't really train in wrestling and massively slowing the play-the-ball until they hit NRL grade either, and they pick that up quickly enough. If coaches were forced to pick between having wrestling sessions and having scrum sessions during the week, we'd get a better game out of the deal over-all.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

It's sad the scrum has come to what it is. I enjoy nothing more than seeing a win against the feed or a contested scrum (see Lebanon vs Samoa? from the before last world cup qualifiers played in England). This said, scrums in union are a huge frustration and we definitely don't want to go down that road.

I don't understand why some teams don't go the suprise push from time to time. Just doing so even with the feed would probably ensure some problems in defense for the other team as they reel from the shock.

 

[thorson1987]

It's sad the scrum has come to what it is. I enjoy nothing more than seeing a win against the feed or a contested scrum (see Lebanon vs Samoa? from the before last world cup qualifiers played in England). This said, scrums in union are a huge frustration and we definitely don't want to go down that road.

I don't understand why some teams don't go the suprise push from time to time. Just doing so even with the feed would probably ensure some problems in defense for the other team as they reel from the shock.

They do do it every now and then, but the f**kwit refs make them reset the scrum.

People seem to forget you still can contest the scrum. It's just very underutilized these days.

 

[Lambretta]

Why can't they just require players to bind and require the hooker to feed the ball straight? Would stop the scrums looking like a complete joke and lead to the occasional win against the feed which I think everyone would enjoy seeing, and require minimal changes. And I really can't see a downside to it.

I think because it would be sensible

Don't be silly that's not how we behave in Rugby League land

 

[ram raid]

I like the idea of nude scrums. Good to watch and for the players involved. What a thrill it would be to pack in the second row!

 

[thorson1987]

I like the idea of nude scrums. Good to watch and for the players involved. What a thrill it would be to pack in the second row!

Lock would be worse

 

[ram raid]

Lock would be worse

Yeah I was thinking that but at 2nd row you'd get some action from both ends. But you're right, at lock you'd be able to chew directly on the hookers anus.

 

[LineBall]

Been giving this a bit of thought. Most people want scrums retained to create space for the backs to compete against each other. Problem is that often the backs are in the scrum, the forwards are out in the back line and the side without the feed breaks before the ball is out.

The only real way to stop most of this happening is to make the scrum a genuine contest again, which unfortunately carries the risk of various penalties being given.

My solution would be to trial scrums with one of the referees feeding the ball. The non offending team retains the loose head. This would automatically ensure a contest for the ball, which in turn means teams have to bind properly, using their heavier/bigger players.

I'm sure this idea will be scoffed at, but in other sports it's not unusual for an official to help restart play e.g. in basketball and AFL.

 

[Rodney]

Making the scrum a contest again is impossible at this point.
It would destroy the game.
Imagine if a team kicked the ball out 1m away from their opponents line, they have a decent chance to again take possession after deliberately kicking the ball out.

The contest works in union cause everything is a contest, and possession is not as vital as field position. It creates chances to score in a game where it is very very hard to score tries.
Making scrums a contest provides more opportunities to score, but we have plenty legitimate methods already.

The contest rewards those who make errors and will open up a whole range of dour tactics.