Second Brisbane Club

[Perth Red]

Because a
A) any new club will need to draw from across the city, not be restricted to a 300-500k population
B) no outer Brisbane area is getting a $350mill stadium anytime in the next 25 years
C) Suncorp has to be hosting an nrl fa e every weekend, anything less is a massive under utilisation of the countries best RL stadium.

 

[The Great Dane]

Redcliffe is a suburb yes, but I'm telling all of you on here lol , Moreton bay as a region is exploding and lots of people in northern Brisbane would support them. Just like people in the west would support the jets in Ipswich . People in Sydney are scared... that Brisbanes second team will end up another small surburan club, you don't understand the Brisbane landscape, and there is a clear difference, Sydney has 8 clubs ? Saturating the market, Brisbane is a long way off that lol, so either the jets or Dolphins will have the backing of large areas, not just a small suburban club like some would like to claim, anything playing out of Suncorp will hurt the broncos and not really take off as Brisbane 2. Sydney's problem is too many teams in the one city, so sticking a second team in the bronco heartland would be a mistake in my books and water down both the new brand and the bronco brand. Why not start a team in booming areas who don't class themselves as Brisbane ? But are close enough to be a true rival ?.

When somebody comes to us with a Moreton Bay/North Brisbane bid maybe we'll come around, it'd help if it was well backed and had a good business plan as well.
Unfortunately no such bid exists.
On the other hand I think that most people here (though obviously I don't speak for anyone but myself) would be perfectly happy with either the Jets or Brothers bids getting the nod, assuming that their business plan was sustainable, and they have good corporate backing.

And if Suncorp is a no go (which I'm not convinced of, and plenty of examples exist of multiple teams in the same competition sharing stadia successfully) then where?
I can't think of any that would be big enough (except the Gabba, but it's not a good choice for obvious reasons).

And the chances of the government building another min 30k seated stadium in Brisbane, in a central spot (central to the new club at least), with serviceable public transport to from the ground, and without certainty of a full time tenant lined up, is slim.
Even if they did build it if it's anything smaller then 30k or in a really bad spot then why bother using a stadium like that when Suncorp (the best RL stadium in the country, and probably the world) is just up the road!

Besides, nothing is stopping the club moving to a new stadium if/when it's built, but if we're waiting for a new ground that is adequate for our needs to be built we'll be waiting a bloody long time.

 

[Marlins]

When somebody comes to us with a Moreton Bay/North Brisbane bid maybe we'll come around, it'd help if it was well backed and had a good business plan as well.
Unfortunately no such bid exists.
On the other hand I think that most people here (though obviously I don't speak for anyone but myself) would be perfectly happy with either the Jets or Brothers bids getting the nod, assuming that their business plan was sustainable, and they have good corporate backing.

And if Suncorp is a no go (which I'm not convinced of, and plenty of examples exist of multiple teams in the same competition sharing stadia successfully) then where?
I can't think of any that would be big enough (except the Gabba, but it's not a good choice for obvious reasons).

And the chances of the government building another min 30k seated stadium in Brisbane, in a central spot (central to the new club at least), with serviceable public transport to from the ground, and without certainty of a full time tenant lined up, is slim.
Even if they did build it if it's anything smaller then 30k or in a really bad spot then why bother using a stadium like that when Suncorp (the best RL stadium in the country, and probably the world) is just up the road!

Besides, nothing is stopping the club moving to a new stadium if/when it's built, but if we're waiting for a new ground that is adequate for our needs to be built we'll be waiting a bloody long time.

No reason the Dolphins couldn't play 4 games at dolphin park,1 at sunny Coast and the rest at Suncorp.
- 4 games at Dolpohin Park against not big drawing opposition sides
- 1 game at Sunny Coast
- 7 games at Suncorp which should include Storm, GC, Cows and also a home double header.

 

[King hit]

It'll be more successful and have a greater following than the soulless Titans at least. Start with a QLDer coach and Qld marquee players.

The Gold Coast doesn't care for professional sport, there is a list as long as your arm for failed franchises there. Also not many QLD people live there anyway.

 

[Irish-bulldog]

T

No reason the Dolphins couldn't play 4 games at dolphin park,1 at sunny Coast and the rest at Suncorp.
- 4 games at Dolpohin Park against not big drawing opposition sides
- 1 game at Sunny Coast
- 7 games at Suncorp which should include Storm, GC, Cows and also a home double header.

in my opinion maybe until dolphin stadium gets another upgrade you might be onto something. Maybe for the first 3 years. I mean the Dolphins already have a decent stadium , would it honestly cost 300 million to get it up to nrl standard ? No way. Karwana has a decent stadium to host maybe 2 nrl games also.

 

[Irish-bulldog]

When somebody comes to us with a Moreton Bay/North Brisbane bid maybe we'll come around, it'd help if it was well backed and had a good business plan as well.
Unfortunately no such bid exists.
On the other hand I think that most people here (though obviously I don't speak for anyone but myself) would be perfectly happy with either the Jets or Brothers bids getting the nod, assuming that their business plan was sustainable, and they have good corporate backing.

And if Suncorp is a no go (which I'm not convinced of, and plenty of examples exist of multiple teams in the same competition sharing stadia successfully) then where?
I can't think of any that would be big enough (except the Gabba, but it's not a good choice for obvious reasons).

And the chances of the government building another min 30k seated stadium in Brisbane, in a central spot (central to the new club at least), with serviceable public transport to from the ground, and without certainty of a full time tenant lined up, is slim.
Even if they did build it if it's anything smaller then 30k or in a really bad spot then why bother using a stadium like that when Suncorp (the best RL stadium in the country, and probably the world) is just up the road!

Besides, nothing is stopping the club moving to a new stadium if/when it's built, but if we're waiting for a new ground that is adequate for our needs to be built we'll be waiting a bloody long time.

You make some valid points mate, no doubt. Maybe the jets are more advanced and ready for expansion. But they would need a stadium for the area with the future growth in mind. Because that area is booming and will continue , it's not the same as the saturated Sydney market. We need to work towards more one city one club type of model, the American style in mind, it's how clubs survive, not dog fight against each other to win fans and make each other weaker. that model is broken in my opinion, just like Sydney is broken.

Suncorp is a great stadium but it's the Broncos, how good were the crushers crowds ?? , let's not repeat history.

 

[The Great Dane]

No reason the Dolphins couldn't play 4 games at dolphin park,1 at sunny Coast and the rest at Suncorp.
- 4 games at Dolpohin Park against not big drawing opposition sides
- 1 game at Sunny Coast
- 7 games at Suncorp which should include Storm, GC, Cows and also a home double header.

No way that's going to happen!

The Broncos averaged 34,421 last year and the Crushers averaged 21,029 in 1995 before SL really hit and f##ked everything up for them, so for arguments sake lets say that any new Brisbane club should expect to average somewhere in between those two numbers-

Dolphin Oval holds 15k right now, and the planned upgrade for the stadium actually reduces capacity to 10k (but that 10k is all seated).

I can't get a straight number on what the Sunshine Coast Stadium holds, Wiki say 12k, an article about a possible expansion say about 7500 now and 10k once the upgrade is complete, but either way it's way to small.

Those stadiums are nowhere near big enough to host an NRL game is Brisbane! And I haven't been to either stadium but it looks like what's there is alright, but both will need much, much larger and much more expensive upgrades before anything other then a trail game would be seriously considered.
Being very generous, and assuming that a lot of second hand seats can be found, I'd guess that each stadium would need at least 150mil sunk into them to bring them up to scratch, and that's just on the stadiums themselves not including public transport access and the area around the stadiums (parking and the such).

Playing any games at either of those venues would be insanity until they get massive upgrades.

 

[Irish-bulldog]

No way that's going to happen!

The Broncos averaged 34,421 last year and the Crushers averaged 21,029 in 1995 before SL really hit and f##ked everything up for them, so for arguments sake lets say that any new Brisbane club should expect to average somewhere in between those two numbers-

Dolphin Oval holds 15k right now, and the planned upgrade for the stadium actually reduces capacity to 10k (but that 10k is all seated).

I can't get a straight number on what the Sunshine Coast Stadium holds, Wiki say 12k, an article about a possible expansion say about 7500 now and 10k once the upgrade is complete, but either way it's way to small.

Those stadiums are nowhere near big enough to host an NRL game is Brisbane! And I haven't been to either stadium but it looks like what's there is alright, but both will need much, much larger and much more expensive upgrades before anything other then a trail game would be seriously considered.
Being very generous, and assuming that a lot of second hand seats can be found, I'd guess that each stadium would need at least 150mil sunk into them to bring them up to scratch, and that's just on the stadiums themselves not including public transport access and the area around the stadiums (parking and the such).

Playing any games at either of those venues would be insanity until they get massive upgrades.

Well if your figures are correct it's half price on the oringal amount of 300 million that's an awesome headstart on say the jets lol. Redcliffe also has a brand new trainline, but would need an extra station to the ground lol. Ipswich rail is much better in that regards. Sunshine Coast public transport is horrible, but I'm talking playing 1 to 2 games a year to engage the fan base, even if it's 15,000 on the sunny coast it's better then 100% of Sydney teams mate lol, let's be realistic on current crowd figures here.

 

[The Great Dane]

You make some valid points mate, no doubt. Maybe the jets are more advanced and ready for expansion. But they would need a stadium for the area with the future growth in mind. Because that area is booming and will continue , it's not the same as the saturated Sydney market.

Which is fine but that stadium is never going to get built while there's no tenant to occupy it (probably multiple tenants if we're being serious), in other words the club has to come before the stadium will even be a twinkle in the governments eye.

We need to work towards more one city one club type of model, the American style in mind, it's how clubs survive, not dog fight against each other to win fans and make each other weaker. that model is broken in my opinion, just like Sydney is broken.

You mean like the Yankees and the Mets, or the Giants and the Jets, the Nets and the Knicks, maybe you mean the Clippers and the Lakers, or the Chargers and the Rams?

You'll notice that many of those teams share stadiums as well as cities.

In the right city with the a big enough population it can work, the problem is when you push it to far and try to pack a team into every suburb like Sydney in the NRL or Melbourne in the AFL, that's when problems arise, I highly, highly doubt that Brisbane getting a second club will cause over saturation of the Brisbane market, Brisbane could probably support a third club as well but I'd advise against that for the foreseeable future.

Suncorp is a great stadium but it's the Broncos, how good were the crushers crowds ?? , let's not repeat history.

They were great, until all the sh!t with the SL war came and screwed it up....
The single biggest mistake in Australian RL history was when the NRL kicked the Rams out and didn't do everything in their power to make sure that the Reds and Crushers survived as well.

 

[Perth Red]

Suncorp is a great stadium but it's the Broncos, how good were the crushers crowds ?? , let's not repeat history.

Before SL Bull spoilt it they had the 5th best attendance of 20 clubs with a 21k avg.

I think we'd all be very happy of any new club started out with a 21k crowd avg!!

 

[Irish-bulldog]

Which is fine but that stadium is never going to get built while there's no tenant to occupy it (probably multiple tenants if we're being serious), in other words the club has to come before the stadium will even be a twinkle in the governments eye.



You mean like the Yankees and the Mets, or the Giants and the Jets, the Nets and the Knicks, maybe you mean the Clippers and the Lakers, or the Chargers and the Rams?

You'll notice that many of those teams share stadiums as well as cities.

In the right city with the a big enough population it can work, the problem is when you push it to far and try to pack a team into every suburb like Sydney in the NRL or Melbourne in the AFL, that's when problems arise, I highly, highly doubt that Brisbane getting a second club will cause over saturation of the Brisbane market, Brisbane could probably support a third club as well but I'd advise against that for the foreseeable future.



They were great, until all the sh!t with the SL war came and screwed it up....
The single biggest mistake in Australian RL history was when the NRL kicked the Rams out and didn't do everything in their power to make sure that the Reds and Crushers survived as well.

To be fair I didn't know the crushers had such great crowds in 95, I'm amazed by that to be honest, I even looked it up myself because I didn't believe you haha. I remember the 97 crushers when I first moved to qld lol, I attended a game against the Gold Coast and the dragons as a child. Lucky to have 4,000 at both, so they were the memories driving my statements.

 

[The Great Dane]

Well if your figures are correct it's half price on the oringal amount of 300 million that's an awesome headstart on say the jets lol. Redcliffe also has a brand new trainline, but would need an extra station to the ground lol. Ipswich rail is much better in that regards.

That 150mil is just to upgrade the current stadiums (and it's a generous minimum), all that other stuff would add to the cost, and if the government decided that they'd rather knockdown rebuild so the stadiums lifespan is longer it could easily blow out the cost to 350mil + depending on how fancy they want to get.

Sunshine Coast public transport is horrible, but I'm talking playing 1 to 2 games a year to engage the fan base, even if it's 15,000 on the sunny coast it's better then 100% of Sydney teams mate lol, let's be realistic on current crowd figures here.

There're a lot of reasons crowds are low in the NRL at the moment that a new Brisbane club wouldn't or shouldn't face, for example over saturation in Sydney, terrible facilities in Sydney and Canberra, poorly located facilities with poor public transport to them in some of Sydney, Canberra, and on the Gold Coast, apathetic populations in Melbourne and on the Gold Coast, SOO corrupting the competition in the middle of the season, the fact that two broadcasting companies have effectively run the game for the last 20 years and have systematically made watching NRL on the TV a better/easier experience then actually going to the game, etc, etc.

Most of those problems a new Brisbane club won't face, or at least they shouldn't face them if they're setup properly.

 

[RL The greatest game]

After another poor crowd by Broncos standard last night i have come to the conclusion that if Broncos are not prepared to play on fan friendly Saturday or Sunday afternoons at the Suncorp Stadium a 2nd club should be put in Brisbane and they should

 

[T-Boon]

After another poor crowd by Broncos standard last night i have come to the conclusion that if Broncos are not prepared to play on fan friendly Saturday or Sunday afternoons at the Suncorp Stadium a 2nd club should be put in Brisbane and they should

There should probably be three Brisbane teams.

 

[beave]

After another poor crowd by Broncos standard last night i have come to the conclusion that if Broncos are not prepared to play on fan friendly Saturday or Sunday afternoons at the Suncorp Stadium a 2nd club should be put in Brisbane and they should

I hate the Broncos like the next man, but you cannot blame the club one bit for the current scheduling of their games on Fridays, its all on channel 9 for that one. Hell, you ask a lot of brisbane fans and they would love to have a sunday arvo or saturday night game. I went to the double header last week and it was fantastic not having to rush around after work like an idiot on a friday and get into Milton before 7pm.

 

[The Great Dane]

There should probably be three Brisbane teams.

Without a major restructure of the competition the NRL can probably support 20 teams (22 at a stretch), even then at that point their'll be a sizable drop in the quality of the competition until there is large scale growth in juniors numbers, which relies heavily on the successful expansion of the sport and it takes about ten years for a generation of juniors to go through the system (from under sixes to NRL).

So if Brisbane gets two of the roughly four expansion spots that are left for the time being, then who misses out?

Perth, Adelaide, Wellington, and Christchurch, are all reasonable chances of being able support an NRL club within the next decade or so, from there it's plausible that if the NRL played it's cards right and things went their way that Melbourne and/or Auckland could support a second club within the next 20 or so years, and it's impossible to predict what will happen past that 10 or so year point, for all we know a very rich group could come out of nowhere in say Hawaii or Singapore looking for a spot in the NRL, similar to Toronto in England.

I guess what I'm saying is, do we really want to invest so heavily in Brisbane when their are so many other opportunities out there? Opportunities that could be massive for both the NRL and the sport of RL as a whole, and that could add more to the competition then having three clubs in Brisbane instead of two.

BTW I agree that it's extremely harsh to blame the Broncos for their attendance on Friday, a ton of factors outside of their control contributed to that attendance.

 

[T-Boon]

I guess what I'm saying is, do we really want to invest so heavily in Brisbane when their are so many other opportunities out there? Opportunities that could be massive for both the NRL and the sport of RL as a whole, and that could add more to the competition then having three clubs in Brisbane instead of two.

I think part of the expansion plan needs to be to get rid of some Sydney teams as well.
Crowds etc show that 6 Sydney is more than enough. So I would relocate 3 (maybe even 4) Sydney teams into the non NRL regions you are talking about. Perth, Adelaide, Wellington, Christchurch.

With more teams you can also have each team playing less games which is necessary.

 

[BuffaloRules]

I went to games at Brisbane and Gold Coast this weekend for the first time...some thoughts....

Brisbane has a lot of positives compared to Homebush and even Allianz...

About 10-15 minute walk from the CBD... The lively Caxton St adjoining precinct next to the ground for pre/post game beers and dining options adds a lot to the experience... Properly designed rectangle stadium close to the action... Compared to Homebush absolute chalk and cheese...

This stadium needs to be utilised every week..

Negatives was the ticket cost... $46 to sit in the corner 8 rows back... Because of the rain they let us sit up in the nose bleeds under cover...premium seats were up to $92!

Gold Coast stadium is in the middle of nowhere and getting there from Surfers entailed a tram to Broadbeach and a 35 min bus trip... Surely they could have picked a better location than our in the boondocks?Admittedly it is on the train line...

Stadium itself was fine... One thing I'll put to rest are the so called "exorbitant" ticket prices at Titans games... $27 got me a great seat next to the members...

I've paid more to stand on the hill at Brookvale or Leichardt...

Atmosphere at both games was ordinary, but the Tigers and Titans never turned up to play...

 

[The Great Dane]

I think part of the expansion plan needs to be to get rid of some Sydney teams as well.
Crowds etc show that 6 Sydney is more than enough. So I would relocate 3 (maybe even 4) Sydney teams into the non NRL regions you are talking about. Perth, Adelaide, Wellington, Christchurch.

With more teams you can also have each team playing less games which is necessary.

Trust me when I say that I'm all for rationalising Sydney, however I wouldn't do it through relocation, but it's pretty obvious to me that the NRL doesn't have the balls to rationalise Sydney, I mean the clubs effectively run the NRL and I can't see them rationalising themselves, hell they wont even let the competition expand so I doubt they'll see the wisdom in rationalisation.

So being realistic the NRL only has 4-6 expansion spots left in her, so if Brisbane gets 2 of those spots who misses out?

 

[T-Boon]

Trust me when I say that I'm all for rationalising Sydney, however I wouldn't do it through relocation, but it's pretty obvious to me that the NRL doesn't have the balls to rationalise Sydney, I mean the clubs effectively run the NRL and I can't see them rationalising themselves, hell they wont even let the competition expand so I doubt they'll see the wisdom in rationalisation.

So being realistic the NRL only has 4-6 expansion spots left in her, so if Brisbane gets 2 of those spots who misses out?

Rationalisation is possible especially as several of the NRL clubs are continuously proped up by the NRL and other clubs.

That said to answer your question Adelaide could be left out because who cares about Adelaide. Also Wellington. Go Christchurch instead.