Sheens set to renew

[Snide the Tiger]

Coach Tim Sheens is set to be rewarded for the Tigers' promising start to the season with a two-year contract extension
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While I also want to see some sort of long-term planning come to fruition - it is pure bullsh*t for the club to be "rewarding" Tim for a so-called "promising start" that has seen us win just two games from five (four of those against mediocre opposition) and not achieve two in succession in his entire time at the club!!

If that sort of effort is deserving of two years extension as a reward - we may as well have given Baa the coaching job for life after our successive wins against the Dogs and Eels in 2002!!

The fact is while I still have faith that Tim maybe the man to get the club into the winners circle - he is no messiah - our on-field results are not worthy of reward and the fact remains that as coach he has inherited extremely promising juniors which is not something he can take credit for!!

He needs to prove that his recruitment and game-plan for 2004 enables us to be genuinely consistently competitive and to embrace continuous improvement as a philosophy and practise!

Otherwise to "reward" him for what amounts to f**k nothing in the overall scope of rugby league success - would just be rewarding and as such breeding mediocrity!!

And this club has had more than its share of mediocrity - now we must strive for genuine excellence!!!!

I will applaud any contract extension if I believe it has been earned - but under my criteria which is on-field success - Sheens has not earned such an extension as yet!

 

[magpiemax]

Look everyone has an opinion and is entitled to think what should and should not be done about the immediate future of the Wests Tigers.But may I say this in my opinion Wayne Bennett is one of the best coaches in the NRL together with the likes of Lang,but if either of those coaches were with us RIGHT NOW what do you see being different between now & the end of this season???????????????????????????????????????? :idea:

 

[Tigerpete]

Yeah for on field criteria he hasnt really met that level yet but he has got us a squad which can compete with all sides when at close to full strength. He's also bought bakc some respect for this club too.

His on field results could've been better this season had things not gone agaisnt us in every game, we need to put this season into perspcetive, we've had no luck what so ever, infact its been rotten, i cant remember a worse start to a season than this, im just thankful we've won 2 games.

 

[yappy]

You are kidding aren't you Max?

We know what Lang would have done with the Tigers. Exactly what he did with Penrith. No I don't mean the Premiership, but I do mean get some real size about the place, have them play a structured game that gave the creative players in the side the room to do their thing. In two years Lang took the spooners to the silverware. You can claim he had better cattle to start with, but I still believe that if it had been Lang in his second year at the Tigers today then the side would be in significantly better shape.

As for Bennett, he has nothing to prove to anyone.

 

[westie]

You are kidding aren't you Max?

We know what Lang would have done with the Tigers. Exactly what he did with Penrith. No I don't mean the Premiership, but I do mean get some real size about the place, have them play a structured game that gave the creative players in the side the room to do their thing. In two years Lang took the spooners to the silverware. You can claim he had better cattle to start with, but I still believe that if it had been Lang in his second year at the Tigers today then the side would be in significantly better shape.

As for Bennett, he has nothing to prove to anyone.

I'd be interested to see how Bennett went at Wests/Souths/Manly/Sharks

 

[Snide the Tiger]

Lang brought two veteran props in his son and Colin Ward to the club - (along with young Ben Ross) to complement the likes of Clinton and Waterhouse!!

We couldn't even see the value in retaining Corey Pearson for one last hurrah given our dearth of true front-rowers!!!

And as a club - we bought the fish John Lang rejects in the form of Reynolds - Elford and Sattler!!!

At this stage Langy would seem to have the points on Sheensy as regards to building an elite squad within two years!!!

 

[yappy]

Westie - the days when Bennett could be criticised for having inherited a State of Origin side are long gone. Yes he, does have the advantage of choosing from the best in Qld, but that's only because he has the best systems of identification in place. Yes money helps, but you have to give him the credit he deserves. Plenty of sides with money don't do as much with it as Brisbane. Bennett made that club what it is. And so many of the greatest players of the past decade learned it all from him. There is no reason at all to believe that he wouldn't take all of the brilliant youngsters at Wests and Balmain and mould them into a real force over time. He'd also get much more out of the current crop of players. I wouldn't pass up the chance of having Bennett for many other coaches - and certainly not the Tigers present brains trust.

 

[Snide the Tiger]

I'd love to see Bennett develop the likes of Halatau - Marshall - Gibbs - Harrison - Farah and Collis etc.

I'd back them all to make it to the top with him as mentor!

 

[magpiemax]

You are kidding aren't you Max?

We know what Lang would have done with the Tigers. Exactly what he did with Penrith. No I don't mean the Premiership, but I do mean get some real size about the place, have them play a structured game that gave the creative players in the side the room to do their thing. In two years Lang took the spooners to the silverware. You can claim he had better cattle to start with, but I still believe that if it had been Lang in his second year at the Tigers today then the side would be in significantly better shape.

As for Bennett, he has nothing to prove to anyone.

Why, how many did he bring over from cronulla?????The size you are referring to is Penrith home grown talent that is of considerable size.He did'nt get size by buying Heckenberg and a few of the other rejects that you had mentioned Yappy!!!!

 

[simon says]

Its easy to blame Sheensie,but really there werent too many GOOD props that changed clubs.I think Payten is the best of the bunch.I would have liked a player like Perry or Civonoceva,but they were retained by their clubs.

The other guys mentioned are no better than the props we have(re Jobson,Chan etc).

My only beef is that we really should have offered Perry/Civonoceva what ever they wanted.But who nows if and how much of an offer was made.

 

[yappy]

Ross ain't home grown, and certainly wasn't considered a top shelf prop.

Lang is far from home grown.

Clinton was there already, but raw as.

Waterhouse was this close to following his major career option as a forklift driver

Colin Ward was far from home grown and had been around since the year dot.

In short he went there with bugger all, bought an ex Origin prop and a old hard head, and a kid with potential and turned the lot into a fricn powerhouse in under 18 mths.

At Wests he would have had at least as much to work with.

If you don't believe me that Langy knows how to get a pack working just look at the sad joke Stevens and his mates have become at Cronulla.

 

[Snide the Tiger]

Even if you rate the other props on the market as being borderline - we still needed to boost the size of our squad - and one buy in Payten - while investing our remaining funds in short-term propositions like Graham & Satts etc cannot be justified!!

 

[yappy]

The old saying goes - "a good big man will always beat a good little man"

Well sometimes even an ordinary big man will beat a good little man. You simply can't affort to be filling your pack with ball players and converted centres. Size Matters.

 

[Snide the Tiger]

The issue reamins does Tim deserve to be rewarded with two more years - and the clear answer is NO as there has been no substantial success achieved as yet - and because there are major question marks over the viability and competitiveness of his hand-picked squad due to our relative lack of size!!!

Give him a chance to prove he deserves the extension - rather than gifting it to him on the basis of raw potential and speculation of future success!!!

 

[magpiemax]

Ross ain't home grown, and certainly wasn't considered a top shelf prop.

Lang is far from home grown.

Clinton was there already, but raw as.

Waterhouse was this close to following his major career option as a forklift driver

Colin Ward was far from home grown and had been around since the year dot.

In short he went there with bugger all, bought an ex Origin prop and a old hard head, and a kid with potential and turned the lot into a fricn powerhouse in under 18 mths.

At Wests he would have had at least as much to work with.

If you don't believe me that Langy knows how to get a pack working just look at the sad joke Stevens and his mates have become at Cronulla.

Gullavao,Peletua etc....etc.....Is there a slight possibility that perhaps or maybe Royce Simmons might have in actual fact been just a small contributing factor to these players being developed from the age of 15 and obscurety that he has picked them up and made them who they are today and that perhaps maybe Lang burst onto the scene when the cherry's were ripe and ready for picking Yapster, Look, I hold most things you say Yappy in high regard but not total authority as some people do.But on this one I think we can agree to disagree. ;-)

 

[HappyTiger]

With Payten and Boof playing along with Skando people will be saying we have a good pack.And with a few PL guys coming through we are looking ok up front.Patience is the key.

 

[brook]

Gullavao

umm wasn't he signed from the warriors where he was playing in the backs?

 

[yappy]

Max mate - I have no problem giving Roycey his due for some good development work. But the fact remains under his coaching the First Grade side was going backwards. At best he could get them so far and no further. Are you suggesting that if Royce had remained the Panthers would have won the Premiership in 2003? That's a bold bold assertion.

By the same logic the Tigers should have held onto Lamb. After all it was Terry and Langmack sitting with me in the stands at Kogarah watching the Magpies win the 2002 SG Ball premiership (and watching Bryce break Cleals jaw in a totally legitimate front on hit - pure accident I swear). Farah, Halatau, Harrison and all of the rest of the good Balmain players clearly thrived under Terry's tutelage.

You can't have it both ways mate. You can't argue Sheens is the reason for the wonderful development of the talent at the Tigers (which may one day convert itself into two wins in a row :roll: ), and at the same time say that Lang was riding on the coat tails of Simmons good work all the way to the Premiership.

A realistic report card of Sheens so far reads - off-field improvement in terms of PR issues and club perception, on-field still a long long way to go. That ain't worth a two year extension.

 

[magpiemax]

Gullavao

umm wasn't he signed from the warriors where he was playing in the backs?

does anyone know who brought him over???

 

[mightypanther]

Royce Simmons signed him up not long before he left Penrith I think, so
Roycie never actually got to work with him.

Here is a link to a good story from last season about Joe...............

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/01/1064988273487.html

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