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Should NZ become an AFL nation?

grayham

Juniors
Messages
170
Te Kaha said:
Grayham, your lack of understanding is mind numbing………

grayham said:
So NZ'ers dont realise "rugby" is the name of a small town & school in England? Rugby is more foreign than Aussie simply because its 10,000 miles further away, and about 3 times more culturally distinct

These gems defy logic. Rugby, Rugby League, Aussie Rules have all been played in NZ for about the same length of time. The fact that Rugby and League have prospered while Aussie Rules hasn't has nothing at all to do with were they came from and everything to do with the type of game they are. The New Zealand Psyche is all about representing the country. NO sport that does not have international competition will EVER take off in NZ.

Exactly. Whoever brought up the line that NZers wont embrase AFL because of the "A" making if foriegn, seemed to forget that NZ has no indiginous sport at all. ie They are all foriegn.

IF AFL takes off in NZ, it will by definition become "international" einstein.
:roll:

Maybe NZ should take up "International Rules". By playing it full time they could possible compete with the AFL and Gaelic boys who have to adjust there games slightly.
 

weasel

First Grade
Messages
5,872
grayham said:
The only reason there are no real plans to expand a team over there is the same reason there is no team in tassie: The population is small and spread over a large area.

Actually Auckland is almost as big as Brisbane, and bigger than Adelaide. Brisbane can support an NRL team, an AFL team, and a Super 12 team, and Adelaide can support two AFL teams. Auckland could easily support an AFL team if the interest was there.
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
NZ is essentially just another state of Australia. If not in name now, it will be in the future. Cripes, you dont even have an air-force anymore.

AFL in NZ is similar to AFL in Sydney 25 years ago. The only reason there are no real plans to expand a team over there is the same reason there is no team in tassie: The population is small and spread over a large area.
An AFL team needs AUS$25m turnover these days. Thats more than your GDP.


So, they are building from the grassroots up.

You know someone has run out of argument when they start to make boring trans-tasmen rivalry jokes :lol: .

I certainly don't think money is the problem, the Auckland population is big enough to sustain another professional sporting team and you'll find that the New Zealand Warriors are one of about 3 NRL teams that actually make a profit at present. The reason the AFL will never have a team in NZ is because they could barely guarantee crowds of 2000 meaning no gate takings, no sponsership, no coverage and a quick death.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
grayham said:
Te Kaha said:
Grayham, your lack of understanding is mind numbing………

grayham said:
So NZ'ers dont realise "rugby" is the name of a small town & school in England? Rugby is more foreign than Aussie simply because its 10,000 miles further away, and about 3 times more culturally distinct

These gems defy logic. Rugby, Rugby League, Aussie Rules have all been played in NZ for about the same length of time. The fact that Rugby and League have prospered while Aussie Rules hasn't has nothing at all to do with were they came from and everything to do with the type of game they are. The New Zealand Psyche is all about representing the country. NO sport that does not have international competition will EVER take off in NZ.

Exactly. Whoever brought up the line that NZers wont embrase AFL because of the "A" making if foriegn, seemed to forget that NZ has no indiginous sport at all. ie They are all foriegn.

IF AFL takes off in NZ, it will by definition become "international" einstein.
:roll:

Maybe NZ should take up "International Rules". By playing it full time they could possible compete with the AFL and Gaelic boys who have to adjust there games slightly.

Where you born stupid? Or do you have to work at it?

AFL WON'T take of in NZ because there is no international competition. And in order for there to be Internalional competition the game has to take of in NZ which won't happen.

Therefore your WHOLE argument is baseless.

New Zealanders have NO interest in that game. If hypothetically Rugby dies (that will never happen) there are more than enough other sports that will take off before Aussie Rules. And in each case of these sports there can be national representation. This cannot happen in Aussie Rules therefore it will never take off.
 

grayham

Juniors
Messages
170
salivor said:
You know someone has run out of argument when they start to make boring trans-tasmen rivalry jokes :lol: .

I certainly don't think money is the problem, the Auckland population is big enough to sustain another professional sporting team and you'll find that the New Zealand Warriors are one of about 3 NRL teams that actually make a profit at present. The reason the AFL will never have a team in NZ is because they could barely guarantee crowds of 2000 meaning no gate takings, no sponsership, no coverage and a quick death.

Money has a lot to do with it. Similar sized cities to Auckland in Adelaide and Perth cannot sustain anymore than 2 AFL sides, with no other competition from other codes.

Auckland doesnt have a decent stadium, the only one of appropriate standard is in Wellington which is too small to support an AFL team...and is incredibly dreary.
 

grayham

Juniors
Messages
170
Te Kaha said:
Where you born stupid? Or do you have to work at it?

AFL WON'T take of in NZ because there is no international competition. And in order for there to be Internalional competition the game has to take of in NZ which won't happen.

Therefore your WHOLE argument is baseless.

New Zealanders have NO interest in that game. If hypothetically Rugby dies (that will never happen) there are more than enough other sports that will take off before Aussie Rules. And in each case of these sports there can be national representation. This cannot happen in Aussie Rules therefore it will never take off.

Wrong, NZ has a history of concentrating only on sports it has a remote chance of winning. Otherwise it would be a soccer country.
The fact that it embrased Rugby which is only a minor fringe sport in every other country its played, emphasises its "only play if we can win" mentality.
And its most successful olympics a few years ago where it won heaps of shooting and horse events.

NZ could conceivable enter a AFL SOO type comp, or RL SOO, but that would be the extent of their competitiveness, unless RU takes over in Sydney and Brisbane in which case NZ will probably adopt RL as it will then have a chance against Australias new 4th football code.
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
Auckland doesn't have a decent stadium? Eden Park 1 and 2 manages to host cricket One day internationals and tests matches and the main stadium have been upgraded in recent times with an impressive new stand. But be my guest and just keep making excuses as you go along.

One thing though, you've basically said that NZ will never have an AFL side of its own and we will never have international matches with Australia, we apparently don't even have any decent grounds yet apparently the sport is going to take off over here. Correct me if I'm wrong but with no international competition, no team in the AFL and only an amateur social comp in NZ how the hell is the game ever going to take off?
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
Wrong, NZ has a history of concentrating only on sports it has a remote chance of winning. Otherwise it would be a soccer country.
The fact that it embrased Rugby which is only a minor fringe sport in every other country its played, emphasises its "only play if we can win" mentality.
And its most successful olympics a few years ago where it won heaps of shooting and horse events.

What a load of crap, if we listened to you, New Zealand doesn't have a chance of winning in League yet why is it the second most popular winter code in this country when we haven't won a series against Australia since 1956?
The sports we support comes down a lot more to our strong English heritage. What are the predominant codes in England? Soccer, Cricket, Rugby and League. What are the predominant codes in New Zealand? Rugby, Cricket, League and Soccer.
 

That Guy

Juniors
Messages
1,054
Agreed, It will be hard for AFL to take off in New Zealand over here due to the dominance of Union and League.

However there is still competitions played in four cities over here, so it is expanding, I actually play in the Hamilton competition.

To get interest up, the AFL need to continue to have pre-season matches played in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch each year, rather than the 1 we get in Wellington each 2 years or so.
 

grayham

Juniors
Messages
170
salivor said:
What a load of crap, if we listened to you, New Zealand doesn't have a chance of winning in League yet why is it the second most popular winter code in this country when we haven't won a series against Australia since 1956?
League is popular simply because its an off-shoot of your most popular winter code where players can crossover very easily. Also its a sport where you have a realistic chance of coming 2nd in the world...a lot to a kiwi.
The sports we support comes down a lot more to our strong English heritage. What are the predominant codes in England? Soccer, Cricket, Rugby and League. What are the predominant codes in New Zealand? Rugby, Cricket, League and Soccer.

Sport migration is a very interesting topic. Basically it has followed a few simple tenants globally:
1) In the mid 19th century the sporting landscape didnt have defined codes as we know now. Most localised areas of England/Europe had their own type of "football" which varied from AFL type games to Soccer, and everything in between. (Including primitive rugby styles).
2) Any new world populated at that time or before (ie Australia and US) developed there own versions of football (AFL, Gridiron) as was the custom. Sometimes taken from English local sports, in conjunction with indigenous versions.
3) Other countries without the population when the "football"s as we know them were codifed (around 100 years ago), tended to take on these codified version based on migrationary patterns (ie NZ taking on Eng sports).
4) Soccer is the odd one out, as it is without doubt the simplest of games at the grassroots level (ie one rule: dont use your hands), and can therefore take off in countries without any infrastructure or organisation.

In the information age, it will be interesting to see which sports prosper.
In Australia it has been the AFL against international (soccer) and pseudo international (rugby, cricket) sports. The cream rising to the top so to speak, now that state boundaries have been reduced. A lot to do with being very spectator friendly, and the best players staying here.
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
Since your having trouble finding my question grayham, I'll just repeat it for you:

One thing though, you've basically said that NZ will never have an AFL side of its own and we will never have international matches with Australia, we apparently don't even have any decent grounds yet apparently the sport is going to take off over here. Correct me if I'm wrong but with no international competition, no team in the AFL and only an amateur social comp in NZ how the hell is the game ever going to take off?
 

grayham

Juniors
Messages
170
salivor said:
Since your having trouble finding my question grayham, I'll just repeat it for you:

One thing though, you've basically said that NZ will never have an AFL side of its own and we will never have international matches with Australia, we apparently don't even have any decent grounds yet apparently the sport is going to take off over here. Correct me if I'm wrong but with no international competition, no team in the AFL and only an amateur social comp in NZ how the hell is the game ever going to take off?

NZ may have an AFL side of its own if they can find the money to build a decent stadium, and the current grassroots trend continues.
There will never be "international" tests that I can see, but it would be the ideal size for a state based (SOO) comp... or a warriers type arrangment in the AFL.

Hopefully NZ as a country will grow up in the next decades and remove its cultural cringe to always want to prove itself on the international stage, and embrase sport simply for its skill and excitement.
 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
Messages
27,694
the only code that has a chance of taking over union in N.Z is league(maybe soccer) the only place that likes a.f.l is a couple of states in australia.when league pull there finger out and start to play by the same rules as othe codes,league WILL take over australia and will be challenging union in kiwi land.

A.F.L is a sport that doesnt look good on t.v,so that means it will never be big anywhere as you need people to watch it on t.v before they will start to play it.todays sports are made for t.v,thus a.f.l will go backwards at a very fast rate.

WATCH OUT A.F.L .....................LEAGUE IS OUT TO GET YOU
 

bayrep

Juniors
Messages
2,112
grayham said:
salivor said:
Since your having trouble finding my question grayham, I'll just repeat it for you:

One thing though, you've basically said that NZ will never have an AFL side of its own and we will never have international matches with Australia, we apparently don't even have any decent grounds yet apparently the sport is going to take off over here. Correct me if I'm wrong but with no international competition, no team in the AFL and only an amateur social comp in NZ how the hell is the game ever going to take off?

NZ may have an AFL side of its own if they can find the money to build a decent stadium, and the current grassroots trend continues.
There will never be "international" tests that I can see, but it would be the ideal size for a state based (SOO) comp... or a warriers type arrangment in the AFL.

Hopefully NZ as a country will grow up in the next decades and remove its cultural cringe to always want to prove itself on the international stage, and embrase sport simply for its skill and excitement.

I have heard reports again that they are floating the idea of an 80K stadium. The debate is to either have it in central Auckland where there is a huge population base or have it in the middle of the north island were you rely on the fans to travel from either end of the north island atleast to fill it.
 

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