Should St George Illawarra end their joint venture?

[SaintPauli]

Speaking of spelling corrections, plenty there but I’ll leave them be..


The 15 titles St George won as a stand alone entity were not NRL titles as the NRL was not around when they won them.

So on the current NRL WEBSITE
e.g.
Souths total premiership's 21 titles.
They don't say,
Souths Nswrl 20
Souths Nrl 1

Do you acknowledge St George Rugby League club with its vast proud historical records and premiership's has been dissolved and has not existed to expand on its rich history and records from the date the joint venture was created in 1999 ?

 

[smi962]

Lol its laughable there are those that believe that without the JV, St George would be a professional and well run club. The same structural problems would still be in play with regards to how the board would be formed and its associated cronyism. There would also be a weaker link to the junior talent in the Illawarra.

There are also a number of demographic reasons why St George are not the powerhouse they were in the 1960s. People have to recognise its no longer the 1960s, and while we can improve the way we are run significantly, we are never going to be that same power house whether or not there is a JV.

 

[rednwhites]

Lol its laughable there are those that believe that without the JV, St George would be a professional and well run club. The same structural problems would still be in play with regards to how the board would be formed and its associated cronyism. There would also be a weaker link to the junior talent in the Illawarra.

There are also a number of demographic reasons why St George are not the powerhouse they were in the 1960s. People have to recognise its no longer the 1960s, and while we can improve the way we are run significantly, we are never going to be that same power house whether or not there is a JV.

I think people associate St George with pride as well as success. I get what you are saying and I am not sure anyone has thought this through, but this sentiment hasn't been brought up due to losing. Instead people are extremely frustrated that the pride and identity of the red v is being wiped from the face of the Earth. Today was I believe another watershed moment to prove this. Ironically, it's the boys club mentality which has led to this demise.

 

[getsmarty]

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Stgeorge management is just as bad as Illawarra's

I agree, they have sold the St.George fans out.
The should have been steadfast and loyal to everything St. George and they just weren't up to it.
Now we have a factional shambles.

 

[muzby]

So on the current NRL WEBSITE
e.g.
Souths total premiership's 21 titles.
They don't say,
Souths Nswrl 20
Souths Nrl 1

Souths have won 21 premierships.

But only one of them is an NRL title.

Do you acknowledge St George Rugby League club with its vast proud historical records and premiership's has been dissolved and has not existed to expand on its rich history and records from the date the joint venture was created in 1999 ?

Lol.. the “proud club” argument again..

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Lol its laughable there are those that believe that without the JV, St George would be a professional and well run club. The same structural problems would still be in play with regards to how the board would be formed and its associated cronyism. There would also be a weaker link to the junior talent in the Illawarra.

There are also a number of demographic reasons why St George are not the powerhouse they were in the 1960s. People have to recognise its no longer the 1960s, and while we can improve the way we are run significantly, we are never going to be that same power house whether or not there is a JV.

Maybe you're right but that is not what we were told when the JV was formed.
We (the fans) were promised a "super club" that would not only be professionally run but would also be vying for the title every year.
I don't buy the demographics argument because Easts and Souths disprove that every year.
Weaker link to the Illawarra juniors is a mute point because of the way we have used that talent pool until now. We recently just lost another 3 who have signed with other clubs.
As for cronyism and the way the board is formed, you watch how quickly that gets rectified once serious private ownership gets involved.
I think we all recognize that we are no longer in the sixties but we also won premierships in the 70's and contested 4 Grand finals as well up to the advent of the JV 1999.
Please tell me what has the JV actually achieved?
Talk to me in terms of the last 9 years since Bennett? How many Grand Finals have we contested before and after Bennett?
In fact, we can say with some kind of certainty that we have gone backwards since the JV.
So now it's nearly 2020 and we are sucking wind.
Instead of embracing and upholding our heritage, many brush it off under the guise of looking to the future.
Please show me what future?
There was never any integrity in the way the JV was formed.
it was back room dealing proven by the way the Board was elected and the club is run now.
The fans are given no say other than on social media yet we are expected to renew memberships, go to the games and buy merchandise.
9000 people turned up at our home ground last night to our season defining game just to see us get flogged once again.
To rub salt into the wound, our Illawarra faction coach assured everyone at the press conference we could still win the comp from 14th position on the table with 8 games to go.
We have been sold a massive dump in terms of this JV and the sooner we admit it the better.

 

[SaintPauli]

Souths have won 21 premierships.

But only one of them is an NRL title.


Lol.. the “proud club” argument again..

Souths have won 21 premierships.

But only one of them is an NRL title.


Lol.. the “proud club” argument again..

Answer THE IMPORTANT QUESTION.
Here it is again,

Do you acknowledge St George Rugby League club with its vast proud historical records and premiership's has been dissolved and has not existed to expand on its rich history and records from the date the joint venture was created in 1999 ?

 

[SaintPauli]

Souths have won 21 premierships.

But only one of them is an NRL title.


Lol.. the “proud club” argument again..

Maybe you're right but that is not what we were told when the JV was formed.
We (the fans) were promised a "super club" that would not only be professionally run but would also be vying for the title every year.
I don't buy the demographics argument because Easts and Souths disprove that every year.
Weaker link to the Illawarra juniors is a mute point because of the way we have used that talent pool until now. We recently just lost another 3 who have signed with other clubs.
As for cronyism and the way the board is formed, you watch how quickly that gets rectified once serious private ownership gets involved.
I think we all recognize that we are no longer in the sixties but we also won premierships in the 70's and contested 4 Grand finals as well up to the advent of the JV 1999.
Please tell me what has the JV actually achieved?
Talk to me in terms of the last 9 years since Bennett? How many Grand Finals have we contested before and after Bennett?
In fact, we can say with some kind of certainty that we have gone backwards since the JV.
So now it's nearly 2020 and we are sucking wind.
Instead of embracing and upholding our heritage, many brush it off under the guise of looking to the future.
Please show me what future?
There was never any integrity in the way the JV was formed.
it was back room dealing proven by the way the Board was elected and the club is run now.
The fans are given no say other than on social media yet we are expected to renew memberships, go to the games and buy merchandise.
9000 people turned up at our home ground last night to our season defining game just to see us get flogged once again.
To rub salt into the wound, our Illawarra faction coach assured everyone at the press conference we could still win the comp from 14th position on the table with 8 games to go.
We have been sold a massive dump in terms of this JV and the sooner we admit the better.

So True Dennis
Easts, Souths and add Cronulla have teams chock full of stars and all close to Jubilee Oval. It is true we have been sold out by the NRL and many in clubland, the media and on this forum ignor the questions or wash it under the carpet.

 

[muzby]

Answer THE IMPORTANT QUESTION.
Here it is again,

Do you acknowledge St George Rugby League club with its vast proud historical records and premiership's has been dissolved and has not existed to expand on its rich history and records from the date the joint venture was created in 1999 ?

Lol.. Shouting now? Just because you don’t hear the answer you want to hear doesn’t mean you shout louder until you get it..

Whit kind of idiot thinks St George has been dissolved?

It just hasn’t had a stand-alone team in first grade for over 20 years now..

 

[possm]

Maybe St George Leagues Club should have voted against forming a partnership with WIN Corp and voted to go with the higher bidder instead. WIN could have just bailed out Illawarra Leagues Club with St George Leagues Club being one of the creditors. In this way all of the investment provided by the highest bidder could have gone to the NRL debt and improving the facilities owned by St George Leagues Club. These funds could have also been directed towards developing new facilities at Kogarah e.g. a new fitness centre of the highest standard.

The Illawarra Football Club could then be contracted by St George as the feeder club, with resources and support proved to them from St George to further develop the Illawarra junior development program and local rugby league competitions. In addition the Dragons would play some home games at WIN Stadium Wollongong and maintain a relationship with Wollongong University.

St George would also provide a grant to the Illawarra Leagues Club to assist with the recruitment of more players of a higher standard to play in their local senior competitions.

 

[muzby]

Maybe St George Leagues Club should have voted against forming a partnership with WIN Corp and voted to go with the higher bidder instead. WIN could have just bailed out Illawarra Leagues Club with St George Leagues Club being one of the creditors. In this way all of the investment provided by the highest bidder could have gone to the NRL debt and improving the facilities owned by St George Leagues Club. These funds could have also been directed towards developing new facilities at Kogarah e.g. a new fitness centre of the highest standard.

The Illawarra Football Club could then be contracted by St George as the feeder club, with resources and support proved to them from St George to further develop the Illawarra junior development program and local rugby league competitions. In addition the Dragons would play some home games at WIN Stadium Wollongong and maintain a relationship with Wollongong University.

St George would also provide a grant to the Illawarra Leagues Club to assist with the recruitment of more players of a higher standard to play in their local senior competitions.

That’s a very myopic view..

 

[possm]

That’s a very myopic view..

If the above did happen, I doubt Mary's appointment would have been extended and I doubt that the appoint process for our CEO would have been terminated as well.

 

[muzby]

If the above did happen, I doubt Mary's appointment would have been extended and I doubt that the appoint process for our CEO would have been terminated as well.

The CEO is a St George man...

 

[SGMax]

100% agree Hazz.... We continue on the current path and we are just making up the numbers.

Board lacks Vision/Fresh Ideas/ Passion to succeed.

They had the opportunity to choose between Gordon and the other party ( surname escapes me )...who allegedly offered 5 million more than the Gordon's and had extensive contacts in EPL/NFL if I remember correctly and they knocked him back. That for mine, shows you exactly what is going on without stating it here in Black and White....Illuminating ......

Maybe the Gordons will see an opportunity to sell their share and make the $5mill to the same people we knocked back. That's how the rich get richer.

 

[possm]

The CEO is a St George man...

I have never said that our problems are only related to Illawarra. The next clean could be achieved by changing St George Leagues Club rules for selection to the Football Club Board and to the SGI Board. Full members should be able to review and vote for delegates. In this way decision makers would be held accountable; unlike the present.

The WIN buy out of Illawarra shares and payment of Illawarra's debt to the St George did very little to improve the problems facing SGI. This is because deals/terms were agreed to which protect the entrenched establishment of SGI - old boys from both Illawarra and St George. Now given that WIN is not a football entity but rather a corporate entity, they have the right to just appoint delegates to the SGI Board. My suggestion recommends changes in which St George restores democracy to their representation on the SGI Board.

In time I would like to see SGI be a club with full voting rights for full members and with St George Leagues Club (not St George Football Club) and WIN Corp (not Illawarra Football Club) being financial backers and having all to do with the commercial side of activities rather than 'football matters' i.e. appointment of coaching staff and there assistants, recruitment of players, management of pathways and the salary cap management. SGI should just be given a budget to work within and manage their affairs within that budget. Of course the football club could apply for increased funds under certain circumstances.

 

[SBD82]

I don’t want the JV dissolved.

But if it were, what makes any of you think that St George would be given the license to run a team in the NRL?

Forget the history (the NRL quickly does) and look at it without your blinkers.

St George would be bidding as a small region, with a home ground in need of serious investment, minimal juniors and a leagues club that is returning diminishing profits, and the submission would be made by a board made up of unqualified members.

Amongst others, they would then compete against the Steelers, who could guarantee themselves financially with the backing of the Gordons, have a large region that is growing exponentially, have a home ground that is NRL standard and has been judged as suitable for tests at the end of the year, and has one of the largest junior bases in the rugby league world. The submission would be written by whoever the Gordon’s decide.

And that’s just the Illawarra bid. St George would be bidding against other franchises too: Perth, central qld, second Brisbane and possible Adelaide and central coast.

It is deadset delusional to think that the St George board could make a winning bid. They’ve demostrated time and again that they are absolutely incompetent. Why would anyone think they’d do anything besides f**k this up too?

 

[muzby]

I have never said that our problems are only related to Illawarra. The next clean could be achieved by changing St George Leagues Club rules for selection to the Football Club Board and to the SGI Board. Full members should be able to review and vote for delegates. In this way decision makers would be held accountable; unlike the present.

The WIN buy out of Illawarra shares and payment of Illawarra's debt to the St George did very little to improve the problems facing SGI. This is because deals/terms were agreed to which protect the entrenched establishment of SGI - old boys from both Illawarra and St George. Now given that WIN is not a football entity but rather a corporate entity, they have the right to just appoint delegates to the SGI Board. My suggestion recommends changes in which St George restores democracy to their representation on the SGI Board.

In time I would like to see SGI be a club with full voting rights for full members and with St George Leagues Club (not St George Football Club) and WIN Corp (not Illawarra Football Club) being financial backers and having all to do with the commercial side of activities rather than 'football matters' i.e. appointment of coaching staff and there assistants, recruitment of players, management of pathways and the salary cap management. SGI should just be given a budget to work within and manage their affairs within that budget. Of course the football club could apply for increased funds under certain circumstances.

Why are you so concerned with the JV now?

Just this morning you wanted the $$$ to fix the leagues club and have St george as a stand-alone..

 

[SaintPauli]

Lol.. Shouting now? Just because you don’t hear the answer you want to hear doesn’t mean you shout louder until you get it..

Whit kind of idiot thinks St George has been dissolved?

It just hasn’t had a stand-alone team in first grade for over 20 years now..

I'll simplify for you.

If St George cannot add to its premiership tally which you and NRL
indicate, then i believe st george dragons fans have been sold out and technically the club has been disolved.

I.e St George Dragons do not exist because the St George Dragons cannot win a comp and add to their 15 premiership tally as they don't actually exist anymore. Putting it simply disolved!

 

[SaintPauli]

Why are you so concerned with the JV now?

Just this morning you wanted the $$$ to fix the leagues club and have St george as a stand-alone..

St George Dragons can exist on their own as their profitable club along with newly completed state of the art child care services
increasing profits, along with tv rights salary caps will survive and thrive.
Bring it home S.O.S.