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Solving the Diving issue

Walt Flanigan

Referee
Messages
20,727
There is an easy fix, unless it's blatant foul play that requires a sin bin/send off, the video is not allowed to review these incidents
If the referee's miss it, too bad, so sad.

This.

Personally I’m happy for my team to miss out on the odd penalty if it puts an end to the gutless diving. If it’s bad enough, the MRC can deal with it.
 
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some11

Referee
Messages
23,662
To be fair it's only been two games this year where it was continually happening, yesterday and Parra vs Cows earlier in the year.

If these sorry sacks of shit want to stay down let them, just ban the bunker from looking at anything other than tries and implement madunit's idea.
 

Walt Flanigan

Referee
Messages
20,727
When we played the Bulldogs there was one instance where Sam Perrett didn’t even bother to lie down, he just sat there and told the ref to look at it. Fortunately the ref didn’t want a bar of it.
 

Glen

Bench
Messages
3,958
Keep the bunker out of general play. Refs might blow occasional soft penalties for barely high tackles if it is up them them exclusively to watch closer but I still prefer this to all the lying down
 
Messages
15,545
Diving is the act of pretending that you have been fouled when you haven't been.

That's not what's happening here.

Yeah, it's not really diving if a foul has been committed. It's more a case of over exaggerating the damage that may have been caused, or acting even.

So rather than penalising the player who has been fouled, we need to go one of two ways.

1. We start penalising every single act of contact that either is or seems to be above the shoulders in an effort to just stamp it completely out of the game. That way, in theory, very little should be missed as it occurs.

OR

2. We go back to the old system where, what is seen live is penalised and what is missed by the on field officials is missed, we play on, don't review via the bunker and if something is deemed to have been worthy of report and missed at the time, then it is picked up by the MRC.
 

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,677
Frank grimes solution is perfect and very simple and also looks out for the players. Would be more than happy to see that implemented. Obviously the time frames and other specifics could be altered as need be.

Diving is the act of pretending that you have been fouled when you haven't been.

That's not what's happening here.

Yes it is. There are countless examples every week where a player stays down who hasn't been fouled at all. After a quick video check no penalty is given and the player miraculously recovers. Not to mention a lot of the 'fouls' picked up are nonsense. Things that happen constantly every game are suddenly penalised because the video ref watches it 10 times searching for something wrong.

It's not just high shots either. Players stay down for other tackles now as well.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,709
I don't have a problem with wrestling. It is three man tackles I cannot stand. Especially the ones that are not necessary but are just part of the wrestle process. Those ones where two guys hold the ball carrier up while the team mates get back the ten and then a third guy comes in around the legs (you can see them stalking the player for the right moment which is an ugly sight in itself) and thus allowing for the extra time while three players are allowed to peel off the tackled player.
You could get rid of this by either promoting/rewarding two man tackles, e.g. you can strip in a two man tackle, and/or punishing a three man tackle with a rule like you are only allowed one marker after a three man tackle.
 

taxidriver

Coach
Messages
14,516
Lol about Nrl players Diving and comparing it to Soccer. In soccer they don't get touched and they fall down where as here they get hit high don't get the penalty so they stay down to get the right call. The problem should not be with the players but the refs for missing these tackles in the first place.

finally someone who understands what diving is
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,687
My biggest problem isn't players staying down for penalties, it's players staying down for minor injuries causing huge stoppages in play (worst is when play is stopped for a minute due to cramp!). A simple solution would be that after the ref has called time-off a shot clock starts, maybe 20 seconds or so, and if an injured player hasn't cleared out of the way of play in that time then they must go off and be counted as an interchange. That way players with serious injuries can stay down as they will be taken off anyway, but divers and minor injuries will have to move as it disadvantages their team to hold up play

I like this one

Maybe allow for concussion test before it becomes a full replacement
 

ek999

First Grade
Messages
6,977
Whilst I hate players staying down to earn a penalty, I disagree with a player having to go off if they stay down because it forces off the field the players who stay down because they were hurt in a legal tackle. Sometimes a player may be winded, fallen awkwardly, or get a cramp meaning they can't get up and play the ball straight away but after a short recovery period they are right to go again.

I think the best solution is to not allow the video ref to rule on high tackles unless, like nick87 suggested, it is worthy of a sin bin or send off. That covers the extremely rare instance where one of those are missed (most likely to be off the ball). Other than that, either move the player out the back to receive treatment or move the play the ball so they can be treated where they are.

What really needs to happen though is for the culture in rugby league to blame everything on the referee. At the moment, regardless of the result, the referee is always blamed. This is done by the coaches, the players, the media and the fans. Just this weekend we had Brad Arthur blaming the referee for sin binning Norman (as he should of) in the press conference instead of blaming Norman for the act that got him in the bin. Trent Robinson spent 10 minutes having a whinge about how Ben Cummins hates them and the bunker ruined their chances of winning the match and not once mentioned Jackson Hastings blowing a try or Latrell Mitchell channeling Paul Carige (he also didn't acknowledge the bad calls that went his way). The media blow up at any minor refereeing mistake, review 1,000 times in slow motion and call for the referees head when they do make a mistake but then at the same time complain that everything gets sent up to the video ref because they are to scared of getting a call wrong.

Until everyone decides that it is ok for a mistake to be made and that in the long run good calls and bad calls for teams will even out, nothing is going to get better
 

Notam

Juniors
Messages
107
Definition of diving:
"(of a player) deliberately fall when challenged in order to deceive the referee into awarding a foul."

The key word here is deceive. If it is an illegal hit then by definition it is not a dive.

Now, the hits on Rein and Milne can be argued as being legal (Rein's was definitely legal, Milne's I personally don't think was) but BOTH of them went off the field and didn't return.

Funny how a few words from Trent Robinson can be taken by some on this forum as gospel when neither the "diving" epidemic nor Cummins' "bias" is supported by facts.
 

jc155776

Coach
Messages
13,556
Four officials missed Jack Bird being knocked out by Tapau.

Luckily it was reviewed and at the very least a penalty was received.

Players should be off for mandatory concussion test if the blow to the head is enough to make them stay down.
 

Maximus

Coach
Messages
12,918
This.

Personally I?m happy for my team to miss out on the odd penalty if it puts an end to the gutless diving. If it?s bad enough, the MRC can deal with it.

So lets say Canberra are playing in the prelim final against the Broncos. Blair knows he can hit a little high since they miss most of them. In the 2nd minute, Hodgson runs from dummy half, and Blair comes in and hits him in the jaw. Refs miss it as they aren't sure where contact was made. Hodgson goes off and fails a concussion test. You go on to lose the game.

You find it completely acceptable that you don't even get a penalty in that game for an illegal hit that knocked out your best player?

Players are coached to push the boundaries. You're kidding yourself if you think high tackles wouldn't increase.

Funny how a few words from Trent Robinson can be taken by some on this forum as gospel when neither the "diving" epidemic nor Cummins' "bias" is supported by facts.

I get the feeling most people on here have no idea what diving is.
 

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
62,412
how typically Australian ...
hang out the bloke to dry who highlighted an illegal act as opposed to the cat who perpetrated the illegality.
 

JamesRustle

First Grade
Messages
7,508
Diving has become so commonplace and almost accepted as part of modern rugby league, that no one seems to care so much about it anymore ? which is almost as big a disgrace as the act itself.


This game was not built on rewarding acts of cowardice. Staying down to earn a penalty makes the game and the players look weak and soft, which we all know, is not the case. But actions speak louder than words. Any act of lying, especially one designed to gain an advantage, is always going to be seen, essentially, as an act of cheating.



While cheating is impossible to remove from any sport, it is possible to reduce this particular form of it. That can only be for the betterment of the game?s and the player?s image.


While most dives don?t directly result in a major advantage ? like a try or match winning penalty goal (such as Issac Luke?s infamous golden-point dive a few seasons back) ? far too many of them do change the momentum of a game significantly.


If a player takes a dive, the perpetrator should be automatically declared as concussed and made to sit out for the rest of the match and the following week, to ensure that they have recovered from their injury which debilitated them so.



This could be passed off by the NRL as a change designed to protect the welfare of all their players, while at the same time dramatically reducing the amount of diving that takes place in a game. It would also help games flow a little better and allow for actual skill to decide who wins a game, not acting capability.



With this gutless act wiped out, the NRL could then get down to the business of removing the biggest blight on the game, the horrible wrestling tactics.


While these are much harder to get rid of, more effort needs to be made to crack down on it.


Diving is nothing more than cheating, but wrestling holds and the like are downright dangerous and cowardly.


As if the NRL isn?t hard enough already, every club ? not just Melbourne, the long-time poster child for the controversial methods ? now employs wrestling coaches who teach players how to attack weak points so as to dominate more easily in defence. This isn?t skill. It?s ugly and pathetic.



Sadly, the longer it takes to try and remove these eyesores on rugby league, the more it will infiltrate all levels of the code and become acceptable practice for all players ? including the 8-year-old kids, who will be turned off the game that is becoming increasingly unrecognisable from the one we all grew up with.



http://commentaryboxsports.com/australian/nrl/a-rule-change-to-eliminate-diving-scourge.html

This would be a bit hard to prove and would likley lead to legitimately injured (minor) players playing on so they don't miss the next game. Most of the effects of a crusher tackle, corkey or being winded are shaken off in a few minutes.

Someone raised it earlier, and I can't recall when moving the play the ball a few yards was stopped. That is an easy fix for mine.

Also, someone like Duges is "hurt" in 80% of tackles but bounces back. Either he has a requirement to have a drink more regularly than others or needs constant reminders of his role from trainers.
 

Walt Flanigan

Referee
Messages
20,727
So lets say Canberra are playing in the prelim final against the Broncos. Blair knows he can hit a little high since they miss most of them. In the 2nd minute, Hodgson runs from dummy half, and Blair comes in and hits him in the jaw. Refs miss it as they aren't sure where contact was made. Hodgson goes off and fails a concussion test. You go on to lose the game.

You find it completely acceptable that you don't even get a penalty in that game for an illegal hit that knocked out your best player?

Players are coached to push the boundaries. You're kidding yourself if you think high tackles wouldn't increase.

Honestly, so be it.

There was a time when there wasn't a video ref. High tackles weren't anymore prevalent.

*edit* Otherside of that scenario. Blair decides he’ll intentionally hit high and gets binned, costs Brisbane the game or gets suspended for the Grand Final. As if anyone is going to say “no video ref? time to claim me some heads!”
 
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