Some new gameplay info from Mario and Vodka

[Dragon]

Just read this on the rugby forums, and had to post it up.

Its kind of hard to explain the gameplay with words. Obviously the technique we have used to hint at how it plays is to list what you can actually do, which has limitations as a descriptive technique.

In my opinion, the gameplay is intuitive and flexible, but with enough depth that it will take a long time to truly master. Of course, this is admittedly just my biased opinion.

To be more specific, sidesteps, dummies and fends are effective if the timing is right (something that does require a little practise). It's great to watch these on the replay and see the defender get sucked in by a well timed step, resulting in a try.

Perhaps to give you a better idea of how the overall game plays, below is a report this week from one of our external testers (Vodka Circle for those that know him from the RLeague forums) when he was watching the AI battle against itself in two seperate games. His words

"1st thing. Roosters v Raiders AI v AI
Raiders with possession approx halfway.
- 2nd tackle, ball gets spun wide to the left hand wing
- Guy steps one, then gets caught but offloads to the centre who runs infield and then passes inside to the second rower who receives a big hit and loses possession
- The ball after being spilled pops right into the arms of the Roosters centre who passes inside to the 5/8th who on the FIRST TACKLE, kicks ahead !!!
- Ball ends up ingoal and the chooks force a line dropout.
- In the ensuing set, the chooks score.

How cool is that ?

2nd thing. Roosters v Sharks
Sharks in possession 10 metres out from scoring.
- 1st tackle, hit up, tackle 4m out.
- 2nd tackle, pass inside, great tackle, 2m out.
- 3rd tackle, pass inside, step, tackle, about 1-2m out.
- 4th tackle, attackler loses the ball from a big hit but it goes backwards and the fullback grabs it, tackle
.- 5th tackle, attacking does nothing at all on the 5th and the player gets tackled 4m out about 10 to the right of the uprights.
- BUT, the sharks get a penalty for roosters offside
- They go for goal.
- The kick HITS the uprights and bounces back into the kickers hands who was running forward after kicking I assume.
- He runs infield, theres a player looking into a HUGE gap just to the left of the posts, he passes AND ITS FORWARD !!"

I think these two passages of play illustrate a lot of what we have built into the game and give you a hint not only of what weapons you have at your disposal, but also what you will be up against in terms of AI.

 

[Kasper]

I like the sound of it. It is good to hear that you can not jjsut barge over when your a few metres out as they didn't score in a whole set when they were 5 metres out. That would of been one of my biggest worries that it would be too easy to score once you got close to the line. This gameplay sounds very promising and has got me even more excited about this game.

 

[TripleM]

:O, that is brilliant! AI kicking on first tackle! people playing on after it hits the post! aaah, any chance of a full game commentary

 

[Matta]

- They go for goal.
- The kick HITS the uprights and bounces back into the kickers hands who was running forward after kicking I assume.
- He runs infield, theres a player looking into a HUGE gap just to the left of the posts, he passes AND ITS FORWARD !!

He goes for goal and he get's it back AFTER IT HITS THE UPRIGHT!!!??? How often do you see that happen? Shouldn't be in.

 

[Kasper]

- They go for goal.
- The kick HITS the uprights and bounces back into the kickers hands who was running forward after kicking I assume.
- He runs infield, theres a player looking into a HUGE gap just to the left of the posts, he passes AND ITS FORWARD !!

He goes for goal and he get's it back AFTER IT HITS THE UPRIGHT!!!??? How often do you see that happen? Shouldn't be in.

It should be in that means the AI thinks well enough to run in and get the ball.

 

[tHe_MaC]

I've seen it happen, way back in 1995 though.......

And they scored too.

 

[Parra_Boy]

- They go for goal.
- The kick HITS the uprights and bounces back into the kickers hands who was running forward after kicking I assume.
- He runs infield, theres a player looking into a HUGE gap just to the left of the posts, he passes AND ITS FORWARD !!

He goes for goal and he get's it back AFTER IT HITS THE UPRIGHT!!!??? How often do you see that happen? Shouldn't be in.

Just because it hasn't happened in awhile doesn't mean it shouldn't be in it. It probaly won't happen all the time in the game anyway, they are just showing how indepth the developers have gone into the rules and physics of the game to bring us the most life like league game they can.

I love that idea, I remember when I think Norths did it against the Magpies.

 

[Ausguy]

All that sounded great i would love to hear more of this sort of stuff, please can we get some more dialogue of AI v AI matches?

im most interested in the different gameplay features, i hate games that are predictable, and kicking on the first tackle certainly isnt predictable!!!!
LOVE IT!!!

 

[Anonymous]

just spoke to mario. he said that those two sets of play were taken from hundreds of games that vodka has watched. and that theball hitting the upright was a complete fluke! so dont worry about it being unrealistsic! because it is extremely realistic!

 

[JoeD]

Kicking on the first might not be predictable but is it particularly smart AI? Also throwing a forward pass when there is a huge gap to run through isn't that smart either. (Although being the Sharks maybe it is very realistic

 

[TripleM]

These sound great, but I also wouldn't mind hearing some of the more normal-ish stuff that goes on..

 

[JoeD]

Just a few quick game play questions for Mario. Thanks in advance, its great to see game developers listening and interacting with the fans.

Will you be able to have control over your own team's AI? ie will you be able to set your defensive style - sliding or up and in or maybe just a 'conservative' v big hits mode. Similarly on attack will there be set plays and the like?

Also, a weakness I found with other similar games like Rugby for PS2 is that player postions basically went out the window during a game. Will the #9 be at dummy half 90% of the time? How often will a prop be out on the wing?

Thanks again

 

[The Engineers Room]

- The ball after being spilled pops right into the arms of the Roosters centre who passes inside to the 5/8th who on the FIRST TACKLE, kicks ahead !!!

This worries me. Why would a team that has just regained possession kick the ball straight back. Fair enough they get a dropout but it is not always going to happen like this. Imagine playing the game and then when you lose the ball the opposition just kicks it back to you.

2nd thing. Roosters v Sharks
Sharks in possession 10 metres out from scoring.
- 1st tackle, hit up, tackle 4m out.
- 2nd tackle, pass inside, great tackle, 2m out.
- 3rd tackle, pass inside, step, tackle, about 1-2m out.
- 4th tackle, attackler loses the ball from a big hit but it goes backwards and the fullback grabs it, tackle
.- 5th tackle, attacking does nothing at all on the 5th and the player gets tackled 4m out about 10 to the right of the uprights.

Shows that the AI has no creative attack and defence will be made too easy near the line.


What is needed is the ability to press a button and force an outside runner to make a run at a hole. That would create a whole new range of scenarios like in the real NRL. The timing of the pass needs to be right.

Still haven't seen the kicking too. Does it still suck and it is impossible to get a decent kick away? I think so unless the game pace slightly slows when the kick button is pressed.

 

[Mario]

This worries me. Why would a team that has just regained possession kick the ball straight back. Fair enough they get a dropout but it is not always going to happen like this. Imagine playing the game and then when you lose the ball the opposition just kicks it back to you.

Wouldn't this be considered creative attack? (something you request below)

In any case, you seem to have missed the point that this is one passage of play pulled from hundreds. This behaviour is rare, but was posted to illustrate that just like the real game, anything can happen.

Shows that the AI has no creative attack and defence will be made too easy near the line.

Given everyone has seen similar play on a myriad of occasions, you could call this passage of play realistic.

I'm struggling to decipher what you actually want though. In the first part of your post you complain that the attack uses an unconventional approach, but in the very next sentence complain because of the straightforward attack. Which do you want? You can't have it both ways all the time.

Personally, I prefer the way it is now, realistic with the ability to surprise me to keep me on my toes.

What is needed is the ability to press a button and force an outside runner to make a run at a hole. That would create a whole new range of scenarios like in the real NRL. The timing of the pass needs to be right.

The AI sends makes some decisions like these automatically. It still relies on correct timing from the player to execute well though.

Still haven't seen the kicking too. Does it still suck and it is impossible to get a decent kick away? I think so unless the game pace slightly slows when the kick button is pressed.

You will be happy with the improvements we have made to the kicking system.

 

[umosay]

Mario, if we put up a bomb how will we go about catching it? is their a jump button or something to make it more user controlled? in rugby 2004 you can never win it from a bomb or a kickoff, simple as that... it begs the question (for rugby2004) ...what is the point of having a up and under kick if you know you can't win it back unless they knock it on. Stupid if you ask me... please tell me we can win the bombs

 

[NZtiger]

This worries me. Why would a team that has just regained possession kick the ball straight back. Fair enough they get a dropout but it is not always going to happen like this. Imagine playing the game and then when you lose the ball the opposition just kicks it back to you.

Wouldn't this be considered creative attack? (something you request below)

In any case, you seem to have missed the point that this is one passage of play pulled from hundreds. This behaviour is rare, but was posted to illustrate that just like the real game, anything can happen.

Exactly! I, like most people who have read this forum, think that it is very exciting that a team can kick ahead on the first tackle! Hell, teams do it real life if the fullback has comeup too far! Creative AI!!! I LIKE IT!!

 

[Mario]

Mario, if we put up a bomb how will we go about catching it? is their a jump button or something to make it more user controlled? in rugby 2004 you can never win it from a bomb or a kickoff, simple as that... it begs the question (for rugby2004) ...what is the point of having a up and under kick if you know you can't win it back unless they knock it on. Stupid if you ask me... please tell me we can win the bombs

You can win bombs.

 

[The Engineers Room]

A dedicated button to forcing other non human controlled players to make hole runs is what I want. I don't think that kicking on the first is very creative. I think that hole running is the way to go. And why can't we have creative options without ridicuous plays like kicking on the first from your own end.

 

[Mario]

A dedicated button to forcing other non human controlled players to make hole runs is what I want. I don't think that kicking on the first is very creative.

The kicking system is completely revamped. It is nothing like the demo.

I think that hole running is the way to go. And why can't we have creative options without ridicuous plays like kicking on the first from your own end.

Considering we

a) don't know what distance they were from the goalline when they kicked
b) don't know what difficulty level the game was on
c) don't know what other attacking options were available
d) don't know what formation the defense was caught in
e) don't know how much time was left on the clock and the points difference

how can we determine whether it was 'ridiculous' to kick or not?

 

[umosay]

stop dissing the game dvdhntr! you havent even played it