Spoiler: Anyone thinking......

[Suitman]

look, without trying to start up any further animosity here, dare i say it, i still disagree. Reddy did ok and i am being realsitc. Did you watch the game, did you observe Etu standing 10-20 m behind Reddy and backpedaling??

that stagger si what created half of the opportunities down that side and created the space and the tries and his turnstile effort on (i think) Cooper's try not long before halftime was just something to watch....it was auwful....i've had some patience with Etu, but he's just not quality 1st grade standard IMHO and i strongly believe it was his weaknesses that made Joel appear to be worse than he was....Reddy made several last ditch tackles and was unlucky not to score on a couple of occasions if he had received better and early ball from his halves

No animosity at all, just disagreeing with you. And the Cooper try was the perfect case in point. Etu was left in two minds for too long. He didn't know whether to come in to cover Reddy or hang out and stay on his winger. He almost had to do both. Ultimately, he made the correct decision. It was Reddy who was too slow and couldn't handle the Cooper plam off that led to the try.
There was an example in the second half that was exactly the same, and Reddy did well to make the tackle. Etu again stayed on the wing and marked his man.
Fair dinkum, Etu can't win around here.
He's not a defensive genius, but he too suffers from the inefficiencies of his inside men, just like Grothe did for so many seasons. And guess who used to cop all the blame then, too?

Suity

 

[Eels Dude]

I reckon you should drink less when you watch the footy because you've got no f**king idea...

Mortimer
Tackles 21
Missed 1

Here's your boy Robson:

Robson
Tackles 30
Missed 3

And here's the Origin hopeful:

Soward
Tackles 8
Missed 4

Source: http://livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match6785.html

Could you also provide some stats on ineffective tackles as well as missed takcles? There is a difference between the two and that is needed if you're going to use the stats argument.

 

[lewiscook]

piss kearney off for a start
why the f**k has every other underperforming coach feels the heat.
why doesnt no clue kearney get away with it.
could it be,hadley is on his side
sterling is on his side
warren certainly on his side.
i know-smithy is under really great pressure-but hadley doesnt like smithy,does he

He has only been our coach for a very very short time.
Not only do we kill every halfback that we have but now we are destroying coaches careers.:crazy:

 

[True EEL]

No animosity at all, just disagreeing with you. And the Cooper try was the perfect case in point. Etu was left in two minds for too long. He didn't know whether to come in to cover Reddy or hang out and stay on his winger. He almost had to do both. Ultimately, he made the correct decision. It was Reddy who was too slow and couldn't handle the Cooper plam off that led to the try.
There was an example in the second half that was exactly the same, and Reddy did well to make the tackle. Etu again stayed on the wing and marked his man.
Fair dinkum, Etu can't win around here.
He's not a defensive genius, but he too suffers from the inefficiencies of his inside men, just like Grothe did for so many seasons. And get who used to cop all the blame then, too?

Suity

good to hear about the lack of animosity....but will have to agree to disagree about Etu. I put the blame squarely on him today and in other games

i just see his ability in defence from a totally different angle to you and i think its Joel that often cops the bad wrap around these parts lol

 

[born an eel]

Can I add that St George is a f**king forward factory .... year after year they develop tough solid forwards who never let the team down .... they have provided half the NRL with their forward leaders in recent times

how do they do it? .... its not wayne bennett - its been going on for years - it must start well before NRL level ..... someone go and f**king spy on them, figure it out and come back and tell our staff wtf to do

I did notice one Craig Young sitting on the sidelines as part of the coaching group, may have something to do with it.

 

[strider]

No animosity at all, just disagreeing with you. And the Cooper try was the perfect case in point. Etu was left in two minds for too long. He didn't know whether to come in to cover Reddy or hang out and stay on his winger. He almost had to do both. Ultimately, he made the correct decision. It was Reddy who was too slow and couldn't handle the Cooper plam off that led to the try.
There was an example in the second half that was exactly the same, and Reddy did well to make the tackle. Etu again stayed on the wing and marked his man.
Fair dinkum, Etu can't win around here.
He's not a defensive genius, but he too suffers from the inefficiencies of his inside men, just like Grothe did for so many seasons. And guess who used to cop all the blame then, too?

Suity

I agree ... I have always liked Reddy - not flash but pretty much always mr reliable ... but he was woeful today!

tat try from the scrum - FMD I could have defended that - St George butchered it fumbling around and still scored :crazy: .... Reddy just stood in and watched cooper run by

last year eric grothe was hammered on this forum for coming in off his wing too often .... Etu is copping it for staying out ... can't win either way it seems .... maybe the common denominator is poor inside help? .... if Etu came in all the time we'd play Morris back into form with a nice hatrick

 

[Suitman]

good to hear about the lack of animosity....but will have to agree to disagree about Etu. I put the blame squarely on him today and in other games

i just see his ability in defence from a totally different angle to you and i think its Joel that often cops the bad wrap around these parts lol

You sure do.

Tell me then what he is supposed to do if his inside men don't number up.
Does he come in? Does he stay out? Does he hang back to give those others time to cover? You have one second to make this decision as that's all Etu has.

Seriously, wingers cop too many bad raps these days, when most of the fault generally lies between the second, third and fourth defenders in from the winger not numbering up properly, or sliding properly and furthermore the extreme inside men not chasing sideways. Not always, but mostly.

Suity

 

[Bazal]

good to hear about the lack of animosity....but will have to agree to disagree about Etu. I put the blame squarely on him today and in other games

i just see his ability in defence from a totally different angle to you and i think its Joel that often cops the bad wrap around these parts lol

This is an argument that shits me, and I think shows if not a lack of practical knowledge of the game then certainly a lack of experience in that situation. And that's not said to belittle anyone, we can't all play footy nor do we all want to and so on. But honestly, Reddy made those mistakes, and no one else. When you're defending out wide, you have an opponent and you mark him, it really is that simple. Both occasions, he let Cooper get outside him and if you do that, you can't expect your winger to bail you out. Every coach I've ever played under gave you sole responsibility for your opposite man on the flanks. There should be no excuses for missing him, and no offloading the blame; you miss him, you put your hand up. Joel missed Cooper, he has to put his hand up. If he takes Cooper and they score inside or outside anyway, then he's done his job and Etu or Robbo haven't. But as it stands, he bears the responsibility for those tries, as he should. He didn't mark his man

 

[Joshuatheeel]

The right hand side of the defence was awful, neither Reddy or Etu can read anything , and they sent more attacks down that side than the less experienced left, tells us something.Umm will they be here next year.

Atkins did Ok, worth his spot, the halves are very, very ordinary, no direction from the 7 who is absolutely out of his depth, Morts is only effective when the side dominates or I guess woth a dominant 7, and add a hooker

Forwards go Ok, but Lassolo goes missing too much, and what does Billy "mr invisible" Rogers provide, must be good on the team bus

Horo was pretty good today, but we need a strike 2nd row, a rep centre and winger, and someone, anyone to play at 7.


We did well to keep a very good side to 30, that is quite depressing.

heard SK on the ABC, basically told the truth that there is no one to replace the numpties, isn't that underwhelming

The better eel squads of the last two years couldn't even do this !!!

Overall Dragons were just to good. Can't see use competing against Dragos / Broncos / Storm but most other sides on our day we can beat. It is going to be an up and down season. Just enjoy or we will end up in a mental hospital

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Could you also provide some stats on ineffective tackles as well as missed takcles?

jayjay's comment was about all of Mortimer's missed tackles. If he meant ineffective tackles he should've f**king said so.

There is a difference between the two and that is needed if you're going to use the stats argument.

I don't need to do anything. Missed tackles are missed tackles. Ineffective tackles aren't recorded by either nrlstats.com or smh.com because it's too much of a grey area.

But here's nrlstats.com's defensive numbers for today, including 1-on-1 tackles:

Mortimer

• 21 tackles
• 3 one-on-one tackles
• 1 missed tackle

Robson

• 30 tackles
• 2 one-on-one tackles
• 3 missed tackles

Soward

• 8 tackles
• 1 one-on-one tackle
• 4 missed tackles

I just found nrl.com supposedly keeps stats for ineffective tackles but they reckon not a single player in today's game made an ineffective tackle (ie. stopped the runner but allowed the offload) so they're probably not recording them either.

I concede Soward's 3 linebreaks were made on Mortimer's side of the field, but the halves line up on the back-rowers and vice-versa. 2 of Soward's LBs came from beating Lasalo on the outside and the other was from a Gasnier offload when defenders were tied up making the tackle. Maybe Morts should have left Loko to take Gasnier on his own? lol

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Seriously, wingers cop too many bad raps these days, when most of the fault generally lies between the second, third and fourth defenders in from the winger not numbering up properly, or sliding properly and furthermore the extreme inside men not chasing sideways. Not always, but mostly.

Yep. I think Etu generally did the right thing by staying on his man today.

As for our right-side defence, Ben Smith is a great tackler but a poor defender. Most of our issues on the right stem from the back-rower making poor or late reads. Lasalo's no better.

 

[EELICIT]

i put it down to one person! SK is at fault. Blind freddy could see that the dragons knew they didnt have the middle of the park all game and our forwards were dominating. So what does bennett do after the 20th minute he decides to attack flanks. All kearney had to do is push our defence wider to counteract the raids and we would have been ok but he cant see that obviously. Our defence was too compact in the centre of the park and thats that !

 

[Joshuatheeel]

jayjay's comment was about all of Mortimer's missed tackles. If he meant ineffective tackles he should've f**king said so.



I don't need to do anything. Missed tackles are missed tackles. Ineffective tackles aren't recorded by either nrlstats.com or smh.com because it's too much of a grey area.

But here's nrlstats.com's defensive numbers for today, including 1-on-1 tackles:


Mortimer

• 21 tackles
• 3 one-on-one tackles
• 1 missed tackle

Robson

• 30 tackles
• 2 one-on-one tackles
• 3 missed tackles

Soward

• 8 tackles
• 1 one-on-one tackle
• 4 missed tackles

I just found nrl.com supposedly keeps stats for ineffective tackles but they reckon not a single player in today's game made an ineffective tackle (ie. stopped the runner but allowed the offload) so they're probably not recording them either.

I concede Soward's 3 linebreaks were made on Mortimer's side of the field, but the halves line up on the back-rowers and vice-versa. 2 of Soward's LBs came from beating Lasalo on the outside and the other was from a Gasnier offload when defenders were tied up making the tackle. Maybe Morts should have left Loko to take Gasnier on his own? lol

Also what the stats don't consider is also how tired are player is after making 20 or more tackles compared to being fresh as you only made 8 tackles. Easy to tackle a 105kg prop when it is your 7th tackle of the game instead of already making 15 tackles on 105kg forwards which have been running at you all game.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

When you're defending out wide, you have an opponent and you mark him, it really is that simple.

No it isn't.

The fullback coming into the line changes everything. That's why fullbacks are (nearly) all playmakers these days.

 

[born an eel]

But here's nrlstats.com's defensive numbers for today, including 1-on-1 tackles:

Mortimer

• 21 tackles
• 3 one-on-one tackles
• 1 missed tackle

Robson

• 30 tackles
• 2 one-on-one tackles
• 3 missed tackles

Soward

• 8 tackles
• 1 one-on-one tackle
• 4 missed tackles

I just found nrl.com supposedly keeps stats for ineffective tackles but they reckon not a single player in today's game made an ineffective tackle (ie. stopped the runner but allowed the offload) so they're probably not recording them either.

I concede Soward's 3 linebreaks were made on Mortimer's side of the field, but the halves line up on the back-rowers and vice-versa. 2 of Soward's LBs came from beating Lasalo on the outside and the other was from a Gasnier offload when defenders were tied up making the tackle. Maybe Morts should have left Loko to take Gasnier on his own? lol

glad to see you are pointing out the differences in the coaches game plans. Wouldn't have been good to have a coach who could have directed play towards the attacking players to tire them.

 

[Bazal]

No it isn't.

The fullback coming into the line changes everything. That's why fullbacks are (nearly) all playmakers these days.

Close to the line, the only time this play should be a danger is when your own fullback is not following the play or your inside men are lazy. Plus, if your opposing fullback comes into the line as a ball player, you mark up and he has no one to pass to, the inside defence covers him or he tries to take a gap that isn't there (because you're all properly marked up), you adapt to tackle him and all is rosy.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Also what the stats don't consider is also how tired are player is after making 20 or more tackles compared to being fresh as you only made 8 tackles. Easy to tackle a 105kg prop when it is your 7th tackle of the game instead of already making 15 tackles on 105kg forwards which have been running at you all game.

Yeah but that's to be expected when you lose the possession battle. The only people who made more tackles than Robson were Smith, McGuire and Hindy.

The Dragons knew what they were doing.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

glad to see you are pointing out the differences in the coaches game plans. Wouldn't have been good to have a coach who could have directed play towards the attacking players to tire them.

With the amount of ball we had and our lack of strike players on the fringes we wouldn't have tired anyone.

No team runs much traffic at the Dragons halves because they're rarely very dangerous. Because they've got above average players at every other position they spread the attacking workload around and wait for mistakes for their points. Their kicking game and defence makes sure the mistakes eventually come.

Soward had a blinder today (in attack) which says more about the lack of quality in our defence. Usually he just plays catch-pass and is carried for his incredible kicking game.

Hitting the Dragons' fringes isn't the way to beat them - their centres and back-rowers are far too strong in defence.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Close to the line, the only time this play should be a danger is when your own fullback is not following the play or your inside men are lazy. Plus, if your opposing fullback comes into the line as a ball player, you mark up and he has no one to pass to, the inside defence covers him or he tries to take a gap that isn't there (because you're all properly marked up), you adapt to tackle him and all is rosy.

Wow.

That must be why modern fullbacks are so ineffective in attack.

 

[Ratchy]

lol so Motimers not strong in attack or kicking. What else does a 5/8th do

Failed comprehension i see.....I said Mortimer would be fine with a decent halfback inside like Hornby who is nothing more than a role player as is Widdop is with the storm.