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Squad succession

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,816
Some decent retentions there, most would be fairly cheap.

We need a couple of specific higher calibre signings, along with showing a few current players the door, if we're going to be a contender.

Squad balance and lack of leadership are the biggest issues we face.
Leadership IS the biggest issue by far. And we are relying on a 24 year old with 65 games to provide it.

That squad is missing another number 9, and 2 more outside backs which if signed take us to 30.

They might be fairly cheap, but will they be able to do the job? No hidden gems like a young Crighton, Kickau or Radley unfortunately.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
Leadership IS the biggest issue by far. And we are relying on a 24 year old with 65 games to provide it.

That squad is missing another number 9, and 2 more outside backs which if signed take us to 30.

They might be fairly cheap, but will they be able to do the job? No hidden gems like a young Crighton, Kickau or Radley unfortunately.

Well none of Crighton, Kikau or Radley will solve the leadership problem in the short term so we can pass on all at this stage.

The issue as you raise that we will still need a 9 and two backs demonstrates that we also have a serious squad balance problem. The current forwards signed and probably retained for 2019 won't have us as contenders next year.
 

eel01s

Bench
Messages
3,409
I think we are looking to offload French, Mennings, Taka, Hoffman and Norman. How many we can move on will dictate the quality of player we can bring in.
 

Eelogical

Referee
Messages
23,221
I think we are looking to offload French, Mennings, Taka, Hoffman and Norman. How many we can move on will dictate the quality of player we can bring in.
To be honest, if I were a quality first grade player on the open market I would have to think really hard about heading to Parramatta. Short term financial gain for long term career pain for the most part. I reckon the players managers would steer them away from our club as well.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,644
To be honest, if I were a quality first grade player on the open market I would have to think really hard about heading to Parramatta. Short term financial gain for long term career pain for the most part. I reckon the players managers would steer them away from our club as well.
Don’t agree. The bottom 8 teams have won more matches in the last 6/7 weeks than the top 8. The difference between the bottom 12 sides is luck, mental preparation / confidence. Most clubs win a few in a row during the year and claim a few unexpected scalps.

The position on the ladder has not resulted in previous bottom 4 sides recruiting well.
 

Eelogical

Referee
Messages
23,221
Don’t agree. The bottom 8 teams have won more matches in the last 6/7 weeks than the top 8. The difference between the bottom 12 sides is luck, mental preparation / confidence. Most clubs win a few in a row during the year and claim a few unexpected scalps.

The position on the ladder has not resulted in previous bottom 4 sides recruiting well.
That's OK, mate. Just glad we can put an opinion forward without always getting reamed over it.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,644
That's OK, mate. Just glad we can put an opinion forward without always getting reamed over it.
I actually should have added that I agree with when comes to elite players. We would struggle to sign Val Holmes for example as he can pick abd choose and would not pick us unless we pay massive overs. Or kidnap his family.
 

chiefy1

Bench
Messages
2,665
Ok it seems Pau has 19 merkins lined up for 2019.

Shaun Lane 20

Kahfusi
Brown
Faainga
Mahoney
Utoikamanu will almost certainly be in the top squad

That's 24. Maybe another 1 or two jnrs Dunster Dresler and maybe Pritchard and Hayne
= 27

That leaves room for 3 external signings
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,816
Forgetting whether they are the right ones or not, does anyone think we are too heavy in middle forwards next year?

Most squads settle with 12 backs and 18 forwards, including 2 or 3 hookers, so 15 or 16 spots to share between edge and middle forward.

With the upcoming announcement of Gower re-signing and based on comments from BA of late, we look to have the following already locked in:

Edge forwards: Ma'u, Moeroa, Lane, Niukore, Taka,
Middle forwards: Alvaro, Brown, Evans, Mannah, Paulo, Gower, Kaufusi, Terepo, Stone

Unless I have forgotten someone, this leaves 2 spots in the pigs to fill so hopefully we are talking to some edge forwards.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,176
Forgetting whether they are the right ones or not, does anyone think we are too heavy in middle forwards next year?

Most squads settle with 12 backs and 18 forwards, including 2 or 3 hookers, so 15 or 16 spots to share between edge and middle forward.

With the upcoming announcement of Gower re-signing and based on comments from BA of late, we look to have the following already locked in:

Edge forwards: Ma'u, Moeroa, Lane, Niukore, Taka,
Middle forwards: Alvaro, Brown, Evans, Mannah, Paulo, Gower, Kaufusi, Terepo, Stone

Unless I have forgotten someone, this leaves 2 spots in the pigs to fill so hopefully we are talking to some edge forwards.

Considering 3 middle forwards start and at least 2 on the bench, we need at least 5 middle forwards each week. So don't think 9 is to many.

However looking at those edge forwards lane, Moeroa and Manu can all play substantial minutes in the middle too.

Also 2 other potential edge forwards are Salmon who has played their in the juniors and DA who has moved from the winger to the edge over the last few weeks I think and is a pretty good body shape for an edge forward.

Also hasn't Stone played on the edge too?

Looks like we are in a good position where BA can be fairly flexible in recruitment (based on who is available) not just looking a particular position.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
Forgetting whether they are the right ones or not, does anyone think we are too heavy in middle forwards next year?

Most squads settle with 12 backs and 18 forwards, including 2 or 3 hookers, so 15 or 16 spots to share between edge and middle forward.

With the upcoming announcement of Gower re-signing and based on comments from BA of late, we look to have the following already locked in:

Edge forwards: Ma'u, Moeroa, Lane, Niukore, Taka,
Middle forwards: Alvaro, Brown, Evans, Mannah, Paulo, Gower, Kaufusi, Terepo, Stone

Unless I have forgotten someone, this leaves 2 spots in the pigs to fill so hopefully we are talking to some edge forwards.

We are definitely too heavy in average middle forwards.

The entire squad balance this year was ridiculous, but we at least seem to be attempting to rectify that in a couple of areas.
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,816
We are definitely too heavy in average middle forwards.

The entire squad balance this year was ridiculous, but we at least seem to be attempting to rectify that in a couple of areas.
Who would you attempt to lose in order to improve the balance mate?
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
Who would you attempt to lose in order to improve the balance mate?

Where do I start?

I will firstly premise my argument by saying that the club appears to be trying to rectify the situation, but our current squad consists of:
* 3 fullbacks in our Top 17. Now sure they can all play other positions, but none are really noted players to bring the ball back from our own line, so aren't really players that should be playing wing. We need to get rid of at least one of them.
* No wingers in the Top 17 who are noted at being able to bring the ball back from our own line. Admittedly Ferguson will solve some of this next season
* 2 Centres who are probably in the top 5 highest paid players in the team. Which NRL Premiership Winning Team in recent seasons has had two Centres in the Top 5 players in their team? Storm had one in Chambers, Roosters had one Jennings, but outside of that none of them had Centres in the Top 5 paid players. It's a position that you need to find value in, not fill with superstars. Can we really afford to have Jennings and The Plane in the Centres?
* Any player who plays in a back 5 position who can't contribute to bringing the ball back from our own try line has no place in an NRL Team and should be shown the door immediately. We have 3 of them in our Top 25. Two of them are on probably Top 20 money.
* 2 Halves who essentially are probably in the Top 3 paid players in the team, who appear to essentially play the same way and both want to over call each other. Neither of them has any game management qualities. We need to get rid of one of them and replace them with someone more compatible to the one that remains. It's all about balance.
* Middle Forwards who in the most are all similar players, of similar quality, none of which would be considered great players. The last 5 NRL Premiers have had Bromwich, Fifita and Gallen, Scott and Taumolo, Burgess and Burgess, JWH. We have ZERO middle forwards remotely close to any of these players in Quality. Sure we've bought in Junior, but we really need Junior, Alvaro and Brown to step up to a whole new level next year if we're going anywhere.
* 2 Hookers of extremely limited ability, realistically neither are Top 17 quality, who are so ordinary that a 19 year old not even in the Top 30 is a superior player after only a couple of NRL games. Is Mahoney going to be good enough as a 20 year old to take us to a Premiership next season? Probably not. We probably need to look at someone with a lot of experience for a couple of years. Preferably someone who can bring leadership too (easier said than done.)
* Too many players in the Top 30 on too much money and too many players outside of the Top 17-20 that a young bloke on limited money can probably do just as good a job. This has been shown by GJennings, Mahoney and Niukore this year. All of them would be outside the Top 26 money wise. We need a Top 21 of high quality and then hope for the best with some young up and coming primarily cheaper players, We need 5 players on min wage (105K) and 4 players on the rookie wage ($87.5k), so that we can spend more money on higher quality Top 17 players.
* We have too many backs on too much money and too many forwards of a much lower quality to the backs. Look at the forwards in the teams that have one the last 5 NRL Premierships and compare to ours. It's embarrassing. Most Top Premiers have at least 2 of the Top 5 paid players in the forwards (including a 9 as a forward). At present we would have ZERO. It's all about balance.
* We also have ZERO Leadership….No offence to Gutho, but if he's the best option we've got for a Captain then that shows just how much we're lacking in quality leadership. We need to buy a couple of leaders ASAP.

I could go on...but hopefully the club sees that what they're doing isn't working and makes some changes
 
Last edited:

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,987
* 3 fullbacks in our Top 17. Now sure they can all play other positions, but none are really noted players to bring the ball back from our own line, so aren't really players that should be playing wing. We need to get rid of at least one of them.
* No wingers in the Top 17 who are noted at being able to bring the ball back from our own line. Admittedly Ferguson will solve some of this next season
* 2 Centres who are probably in the top 5 highest paid players in the team. Which NRL Premiership Winning Team in recent seasons has had two Centres in the Top 5 players in their team? Storm had one in Chambers, Roosters had one Jennings, but outside of that none of them had Centres in the Top 5 paid players. It's a position that you need to find value in, not fill with superstars. Can we really afford to have Jennings and The Plane in the Centres
I only got this far

Who are the 3 fullbacks in our top 17? .... cos apparently hayne is an overpaid centre
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
I only got this far

Who are the 3 fullbacks in our top 17? .... cos apparently hayne is an overpaid centre

Hayne, French and Gutherson. They have to play elsewhere because you can only have one fullback, so as a result, The Plane becomes an overpaid Centre and French becomes an ineffective winger.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,191
I only got this far

Who are the 3 fullbacks in our top 17? .... cos apparently hayne is an overpaid centre

and I read here this morning that he is going to be overpaid again for next year, even though he is not signed as yet
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,987
Hayne, French and Gutherson. They have to play elsewhere because you can only have one fullback, so as a result, The Plane becomes an overpaid Centre and French becomes an ineffective winger.
Dont think you can use him in 2 separate whinge points tho .... you cant whinge that he is an overpaid centre but a is actually a fullback

Its a prime example of the whinging for the sake of whinging on this forum
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
Dont think you can use him in 2 separate whinge points tho .... you cant whinge that he is an overpaid centre but a is actually a fullback

Its a prime example of the whinging for the sake of whinging on this forum

It's all related in regard to squad balance. You cant have three fullbacks, because then you have to have one of them as an over paid centre and the other as an ineffective winger.

If the squas balance remains as it is then so will the bottom 4 finish.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,987
Well we actually have 4 fullbacks ... corey norman says hi

South must suck too ... 3 fullbacks - one an overpaid centre ... inglis, johston, walker
 

Obscene Assassin

First Grade
Messages
6,346
Forgetting whether they are the right ones or not, does anyone think we are too heavy in middle forwards next year?

Most squads settle with 12 backs and 18 forwards, including 2 or 3 hookers, so 15 or 16 spots to share between edge and middle forward.

With the upcoming announcement of Gower re-signing and based on comments from BA of late, we look to have the following already locked in:

Edge forwards: Ma'u, Moeroa, Lane, Niukore, Taka,
Middle forwards: Alvaro, Brown, Evans, Mannah, Paulo, Gower, Kaufusi, Terepo, Stone

Unless I have forgotten someone, this leaves 2 spots in the pigs to fill so hopefully we are talking to some edge forwards.

If the 30 becomes 36, as previously reported to be happening we could also probably add Salesi Fainga'a and maybe Filia Utoikamanu to that list depending on his recovery. Kaufusi has also played limited games on the edge in reserve grade.
 

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