Rooster Cogburn.
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'Why St George fans would buy the Sydney harbour bridge'
Irene, one of our executive associates, has kindly devoted her time waging the battle on the reinstatement of St George back to the NRL. However, her first task was to convince some of the hardcore fans that St George are in fact dead (i.e. not in the NRL).
She did this by taking the battle to the various forums, right to the hardcore Saints fans. The feedback we have received was less than gracious when we tried to explain, with hard evidence, why St George is rightfully a member of the DCS.
Aside from the normal abuse, we did get some intelligent responses, many of which argued that "St George Illawarra is St George" for a number of reasons. We have provided those reasons below and our commentary as to why the reasons can not be relied upon to substantiate the claims made by the old St George fans.
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #1: "The merger barely impacted on St George, all that happened is that the name "Illawarra" was added to the St George badge, but the club will always be known as "St George"."
DCS Comment - Unfortunately, this is not true at all. Since the merger no one can join the "Saints" football club - the "Saints" currently competing in the NRL, NSW 1st Division and junior rep teams have no open membership. You can however still join the dead Saints football club! Hardly the same club anymore is it?
In order for the merger or joint venture to proceed, it was necessary for both St George & Illawarra football clubs to enter into a written deed of agreement ( a contract). In the deed, the clubs agreed to form a new company called "St George- Illawarra". The deed included an agreement to create a board of directors, share resources, to provide capital, establish a CEO, employ staff, to allocate an initial budget subject to review and for both clubs to agree not to separately apply to, or actually ever again compete as themselves in the NRL.
Of course, the written contract agreement (franchise) with the NRL would not permit St George or Illawarra from competing separately anyway - unlike the "Manly favoured"clause Arko shrewdly had in the Northern Eagles licence.
The ST GEORGE DISTRICT RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED is a registered corporation with the Australian Securities & Investments Commission. Legally, the club is known as follows: ST GEORGE DISTRICT RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED ACN 002 350 272.
The STEELERS club is also a registered corporation and is and for the purposes of the corporations law, it is legally known as: ILLAWARRA DISTRICT RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED ACN 002 762 610.
So what's it all mean? Well, when the two clubs entered into the deed of agreement, they registered the following corporation: ST GEORGE ILLAWARRA RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB PTY. LIMITED ACN 085 008 340, ABN 74 085 008 340, Type Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares Registration Date 03/11/1998 Locality of Registered Office Parramatta NSW 2150.
Legally, a new club was born in November of 1998, it was neither of the 2 old clubs and it's name, "St George Illawarra" was as new as the 1998 corporation itself. You see.. it was not just a simple change to the badge. What happened is that the newly born club took and now wears the old (dead) Saints badge. The St George DRLFC club essentially gave it away to another club/entity known as and operating as the "St George Illawarra Dragons".
The DCS isn't saying that we take pleasure from what has happened - we are merely seeking to set the record straight, to end the lies and deceptions being proferred by The Dragons, the NRL and the media.
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #2: "St George did not lose their identity as a result of the merger, whereas Illawarra did and that means Illawarra are dead but St George lives."
DCS Comment - The merger was now complete but what of the identities of the two clubs? How were they affected? The old clubs were alive and well, but they were not the new club. The St George - Illawarra Dragons are an individual entity. At law, it can sue and be sued, it now has all the rights of an artificial person. Including the ability to own property and enter into binding contracts. It can be prosecuted for breaches of the law, for example, a breach of the Corporations law (insolvent trading) or the Trade Practices Act 1974 ( S 52 - Passing off as St George for example).
Meanwhile, the old clubs are not liable for the actions of the Dragons. Did Norths or Manly have to pay out anything as a result of the Northern Eagles implosion? No, they were not accountable legally (perhaps morally!) at all.
In terms of identity, the JV club has nothing to do with St George, other than the fact that the St George Club is a 50% shareholder. St George fans who rejoice in the the retention of their club's identity while Norths, Wests, Illawarra, Balmain and until recently Manly fans, could not, are misguided and fooling themselves. They should be in utter grief at the total loss of their club from elite league - in truth they are no better off than the fans of these other clubs which merged and died.
As for the misguided school of thought adopted by some fans that only Illawarra is dead, all we can say is that legally and factually, neither club now competes at the elite level. St George is as dead as Illawarra. How can the 1998 cessation of St George and Illawarra from the NRL, see one club still be alive and well while the other is considered to be dead? That is a ridiculous charade which falls away the moment anyone, even casually, looks at the facts. It is illogical to say that Illawarra is dead, to say that Wests, Balmain and Norths are dead, but somehow the St George club isn't.
Is the fact that the current Dragons play in the dead Saints jersey all that it takes to fool a St George fan into thinking his/her club didn't die at the end of the 1998 season? It sure seems so - as we see in the next claim!
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #3: The traditional St George jersey is still worn by the Dragons merged joint venture outfit, therefore, the joint venture is really St George."
DCS Comment - Like the badge, St George just gave it away as well. A new club wears the now dead St George jersey. In simple terms, its kind of like stealing a dead mans clothes. It just does not feel right. When Manly trot out in 2002 wearing dead Northern Eagles jerseys will anyone be fooled into believing that Norths are still part of it and the Eagles of 2000/01 are not dead? Come off it!
The NRL & the Club CEOs must think that League fans are fools - c'mon Saints fans, all you are doing is proving that the NRL's summation of your intellect is well founded!
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #4: "The so-called break in the St. George record books can still be added to, all that is required is to merely note with a small asterix the club added the name "Illawarra" to St George and the there is no damage or break in the records. This is no different to Easts, Sydney City & Sydney Roosters."
DCS Comment - Well, clearly as we have already demonstrated, the JV is a new club. There are plenty of examples now available that support the truth. For example, the highly regarded statistician David Middleton in his League Yearbook now lists St George as a "former" premiership club alongside Illawarra, Norths, Balmain & Wests. A broad view of "tradition" and "club spirit" and its continuation in the JV is probably a fair enough approach for marketing the JV to fans of the old clubs, but it doesn't mean or prove that St George is still competing in the NRL! Easts RLFC still runs its own football club, merely changing names is not the same as merging clubs!
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #5: "The merger between the two clubs was really just a takeover by the St George Club. Illawarra got socks and a name on the bottom of our badge - we welcome them into our famous club - they should be thankful."
DCS Comment - For the reasons set forth earlier this can not be true and is an incorrect statement. The directors of the JV knew that it would be easier to fool the fans by simply adopting the now dead St George jersey rather than Illawarra's design or a new design altogether. In fact, we saw the Dragons compete in the NRL in 2001 wearing a new jersey design!
For further evidence, one only needs to rely upon the November Newsletter released by the JV Dragons outfit itself. It read, in part, as follows: "The St George Illawarra Dragons launched their new Red V Membership program by officially presenting the Prime Minister, John Howard with the Dragons number one membership...The Prime Minister was then officially recognised as the Dragons number one supporter after being presented with the Dragons No. 1 Red V Membership card by St George Illawarra Chairman Warren Lockwood. Mr Howard, an avid Dragons supporter, was formerly the patron of the St George Football Club prior to the joint venture with Illawarra and this presentation assures he will hold a similar status with the new Club."
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #5: "Illawarra has just been borrowing the St George district since it took it when it entered the League in 1983. The merger of the two clubs was really just St George claiming the district back. Adding Illawarra to the club's name and badge is merely just recognition of this."
DCS Comment - Well...St George was always a Sydney based club - its junior area was never the Illawarra. The Wollongong / Illawarra region was part of NSW Country League. Sure they got a lot of players from the region, but the St George club didn't give anything up in 1983 - the Illawarra Steelers were an Expansion Team, they brought a new area to the Sydney based comp. Let alone, that 17 years is a long time to be just "borrowing a district"! Are Cronulla merely loaning their area from St. George too? Come off it!
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #6: "The St George spirit is stronger than the steelers and therefore it is only natural to assume that the Steelers are dead but the Saints live on."
DCS Comment - Firstly, the hardcore Steelers fans we have spoken to would disagree. There are certainly less steelers fans, even less now. Sadly, in the modern world of rugby league operating as a business, spirit has been chucked out the window. The reality is, the St George fans were sold out just like the Illawarra steelers fans were and the other merged clubs.
The only difference is, St George fans did not realise it. Some now though are now finally starting to see what has happened to this once mighty club - St George is dead.
The only question that remains is, what are you prepared to do about it? We urge you to make some noise, tell the club, write letters, hold up banners. Do something to reinstate your clubs, both of them.
Jay Clegg President - Dead Club Society.
Irene, one of our executive associates, has kindly devoted her time waging the battle on the reinstatement of St George back to the NRL. However, her first task was to convince some of the hardcore fans that St George are in fact dead (i.e. not in the NRL).
She did this by taking the battle to the various forums, right to the hardcore Saints fans. The feedback we have received was less than gracious when we tried to explain, with hard evidence, why St George is rightfully a member of the DCS.
Aside from the normal abuse, we did get some intelligent responses, many of which argued that "St George Illawarra is St George" for a number of reasons. We have provided those reasons below and our commentary as to why the reasons can not be relied upon to substantiate the claims made by the old St George fans.
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #1: "The merger barely impacted on St George, all that happened is that the name "Illawarra" was added to the St George badge, but the club will always be known as "St George"."
DCS Comment - Unfortunately, this is not true at all. Since the merger no one can join the "Saints" football club - the "Saints" currently competing in the NRL, NSW 1st Division and junior rep teams have no open membership. You can however still join the dead Saints football club! Hardly the same club anymore is it?
In order for the merger or joint venture to proceed, it was necessary for both St George & Illawarra football clubs to enter into a written deed of agreement ( a contract). In the deed, the clubs agreed to form a new company called "St George- Illawarra". The deed included an agreement to create a board of directors, share resources, to provide capital, establish a CEO, employ staff, to allocate an initial budget subject to review and for both clubs to agree not to separately apply to, or actually ever again compete as themselves in the NRL.
Of course, the written contract agreement (franchise) with the NRL would not permit St George or Illawarra from competing separately anyway - unlike the "Manly favoured"clause Arko shrewdly had in the Northern Eagles licence.
The ST GEORGE DISTRICT RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED is a registered corporation with the Australian Securities & Investments Commission. Legally, the club is known as follows: ST GEORGE DISTRICT RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED ACN 002 350 272.
The STEELERS club is also a registered corporation and is and for the purposes of the corporations law, it is legally known as: ILLAWARRA DISTRICT RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED ACN 002 762 610.
So what's it all mean? Well, when the two clubs entered into the deed of agreement, they registered the following corporation: ST GEORGE ILLAWARRA RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB PTY. LIMITED ACN 085 008 340, ABN 74 085 008 340, Type Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares Registration Date 03/11/1998 Locality of Registered Office Parramatta NSW 2150.
Legally, a new club was born in November of 1998, it was neither of the 2 old clubs and it's name, "St George Illawarra" was as new as the 1998 corporation itself. You see.. it was not just a simple change to the badge. What happened is that the newly born club took and now wears the old (dead) Saints badge. The St George DRLFC club essentially gave it away to another club/entity known as and operating as the "St George Illawarra Dragons".
The DCS isn't saying that we take pleasure from what has happened - we are merely seeking to set the record straight, to end the lies and deceptions being proferred by The Dragons, the NRL and the media.
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #2: "St George did not lose their identity as a result of the merger, whereas Illawarra did and that means Illawarra are dead but St George lives."
DCS Comment - The merger was now complete but what of the identities of the two clubs? How were they affected? The old clubs were alive and well, but they were not the new club. The St George - Illawarra Dragons are an individual entity. At law, it can sue and be sued, it now has all the rights of an artificial person. Including the ability to own property and enter into binding contracts. It can be prosecuted for breaches of the law, for example, a breach of the Corporations law (insolvent trading) or the Trade Practices Act 1974 ( S 52 - Passing off as St George for example).
Meanwhile, the old clubs are not liable for the actions of the Dragons. Did Norths or Manly have to pay out anything as a result of the Northern Eagles implosion? No, they were not accountable legally (perhaps morally!) at all.
In terms of identity, the JV club has nothing to do with St George, other than the fact that the St George Club is a 50% shareholder. St George fans who rejoice in the the retention of their club's identity while Norths, Wests, Illawarra, Balmain and until recently Manly fans, could not, are misguided and fooling themselves. They should be in utter grief at the total loss of their club from elite league - in truth they are no better off than the fans of these other clubs which merged and died.
As for the misguided school of thought adopted by some fans that only Illawarra is dead, all we can say is that legally and factually, neither club now competes at the elite level. St George is as dead as Illawarra. How can the 1998 cessation of St George and Illawarra from the NRL, see one club still be alive and well while the other is considered to be dead? That is a ridiculous charade which falls away the moment anyone, even casually, looks at the facts. It is illogical to say that Illawarra is dead, to say that Wests, Balmain and Norths are dead, but somehow the St George club isn't.
Is the fact that the current Dragons play in the dead Saints jersey all that it takes to fool a St George fan into thinking his/her club didn't die at the end of the 1998 season? It sure seems so - as we see in the next claim!
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #3: The traditional St George jersey is still worn by the Dragons merged joint venture outfit, therefore, the joint venture is really St George."
DCS Comment - Like the badge, St George just gave it away as well. A new club wears the now dead St George jersey. In simple terms, its kind of like stealing a dead mans clothes. It just does not feel right. When Manly trot out in 2002 wearing dead Northern Eagles jerseys will anyone be fooled into believing that Norths are still part of it and the Eagles of 2000/01 are not dead? Come off it!
The NRL & the Club CEOs must think that League fans are fools - c'mon Saints fans, all you are doing is proving that the NRL's summation of your intellect is well founded!
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #4: "The so-called break in the St. George record books can still be added to, all that is required is to merely note with a small asterix the club added the name "Illawarra" to St George and the there is no damage or break in the records. This is no different to Easts, Sydney City & Sydney Roosters."
DCS Comment - Well, clearly as we have already demonstrated, the JV is a new club. There are plenty of examples now available that support the truth. For example, the highly regarded statistician David Middleton in his League Yearbook now lists St George as a "former" premiership club alongside Illawarra, Norths, Balmain & Wests. A broad view of "tradition" and "club spirit" and its continuation in the JV is probably a fair enough approach for marketing the JV to fans of the old clubs, but it doesn't mean or prove that St George is still competing in the NRL! Easts RLFC still runs its own football club, merely changing names is not the same as merging clubs!
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #5: "The merger between the two clubs was really just a takeover by the St George Club. Illawarra got socks and a name on the bottom of our badge - we welcome them into our famous club - they should be thankful."
DCS Comment - For the reasons set forth earlier this can not be true and is an incorrect statement. The directors of the JV knew that it would be easier to fool the fans by simply adopting the now dead St George jersey rather than Illawarra's design or a new design altogether. In fact, we saw the Dragons compete in the NRL in 2001 wearing a new jersey design!
For further evidence, one only needs to rely upon the November Newsletter released by the JV Dragons outfit itself. It read, in part, as follows: "The St George Illawarra Dragons launched their new Red V Membership program by officially presenting the Prime Minister, John Howard with the Dragons number one membership...The Prime Minister was then officially recognised as the Dragons number one supporter after being presented with the Dragons No. 1 Red V Membership card by St George Illawarra Chairman Warren Lockwood. Mr Howard, an avid Dragons supporter, was formerly the patron of the St George Football Club prior to the joint venture with Illawarra and this presentation assures he will hold a similar status with the new Club."
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #5: "Illawarra has just been borrowing the St George district since it took it when it entered the League in 1983. The merger of the two clubs was really just St George claiming the district back. Adding Illawarra to the club's name and badge is merely just recognition of this."
DCS Comment - Well...St George was always a Sydney based club - its junior area was never the Illawarra. The Wollongong / Illawarra region was part of NSW Country League. Sure they got a lot of players from the region, but the St George club didn't give anything up in 1983 - the Illawarra Steelers were an Expansion Team, they brought a new area to the Sydney based comp. Let alone, that 17 years is a long time to be just "borrowing a district"! Are Cronulla merely loaning their area from St. George too? Come off it!
SAINTS FAN'S CLAIM #6: "The St George spirit is stronger than the steelers and therefore it is only natural to assume that the Steelers are dead but the Saints live on."
DCS Comment - Firstly, the hardcore Steelers fans we have spoken to would disagree. There are certainly less steelers fans, even less now. Sadly, in the modern world of rugby league operating as a business, spirit has been chucked out the window. The reality is, the St George fans were sold out just like the Illawarra steelers fans were and the other merged clubs.
The only difference is, St George fans did not realise it. Some now though are now finally starting to see what has happened to this once mighty club - St George is dead.
The only question that remains is, what are you prepared to do about it? We urge you to make some noise, tell the club, write letters, hold up banners. Do something to reinstate your clubs, both of them.
Jay Clegg President - Dead Club Society.
