State of origin series

[Iamback]

I'm wondering if Big Jake will be included.

He is out for the whole series

 

[CCJohnC]

My final word - Defence wins matches.

 

[Sime_11]

if Freddy persists with Nicho on the bench.... does he go full Freddy and give Api a break with Luai or Cleary in at 9?

just at least try something different FFS - it was frustrating to watch the same tactics with when we were losing.... the NSW women were doing the same thing last night.... surely its not a "NSW spirit" thing

 

[Girds89]

I thought Paulo was horrible...

Yeah he made almost 100m but man he was slow.. everything he just did was so slow..

He's hard to tackle no doubt but he killed the momentum a lot.

You compare that to what Spencer does and its not even a comparison..

If I was coach

Edwards
Too
Campbell Graham
Latrell
Critta
Luai
Nath
Tatola
Api
Haas
Frizell
Kolomatangi
Yeo

Burton
Lenui
Martin
Murray

 

[Girds89]

Cleary is young and has so much time on his side. As an example, let’s look at Johns (almost universally consider a great Origin player) versus Nathan at similar ages.

Age 20 - Cleary stood beside Mahoney as he led us to a 2-1 win in Freddy’s first series. Largely there to tackle.

21 - Johns. Was the halfback for the first two games when NSW went down 3-0 against Fatty’s ‘nobodies’ (who really were the worst QLD (and Papua New Guinean) side of all time). Dropped for the third game as Toovs came back from injury.
Cleary. Was halfback for Game 1 (when we lost) and for the first half of game 2 (which we had won at half time). Had some nice touches; his sindersmoses injury occurred when he made a half-break, but he still got a quick PTB and NSW scored on that play. NSW won the series in Game 3.

22 - Johns. Hooker for all three games as NSW won 3-0. Won MoM in Game 2.
Cleary. Was halfback as we lost 2-1 in the post-season COVID origin agains the worst QLD team ever. Missed two shots at goal in the first game as we lost by 4 points having scored a similar number of tries. Won MoM in Game 2 as NSW rebounded to force a decider.

23 - Johns. Played hooker in Game 1 and 3. We lost game 3 which was a dead-rubber, as we had already won the series.
Cleary. Played the first two games as we won both (both in QLD) to win the trophy. Played the second half of game 2 with a separated shoulder. Is widely known as the Trell and Turbo series, but that neglects to mention game 3 where Cleary and Luai didn’t play due to injury (but Trell and Turbo did) NSW lost having dominated the earlier two games.

24 - Johns. Halfback in all three games as NSW lost the series 2-1. Kicked 1 from 5 in the first game as NSW lost despite scoring 5 tries to 4 (albeit he did kick a field goal). We lost the decider at the SFS.
Cleary. Halfback in all three games, with NSW losing the series 2-1 to the worst QLD team ever (seeing a recurring theme). Was MoM in the second game as NSW bounced back to level. In the third game as NSW was chasing a try to square it, chipped into Ben Hunt who raced away to score to seal the game.

25 - Johns. Played halfback in probably the closest series ever (1-1, with all three games decider by 2 points or less, meaning QLD retained the trophy). Girds replaced him as kicker.
Cleary. One game so far and NSW lost despite having a lot of possession. Was halfback.

I am not trying to say that Cleary has had a better Origin career at this stage (albeit you could argue he has; while both had a 50% game record, Cleary has played more games, more games at their preferred position, series wins, MoM awards) but making the point that John’s dominance at this level didn’t occur until much later in his career; in fact at 26 after two lost series in a row Kohns was moved back to the bench as Kimmorlry was handed the No 7.

So Nathan has plenty of time left to cement his legacy and the amount of big games he has won for Penrith will give him plenty of opportunities to continue to do so.

That is not to see I wouldn’t like to see him improve some elements of his game; particularly (and this will please @Girds89) I would like to see him mix up his kicking game. Kick earlier in the tackle count coming out of trouble and the when we are closer to the line try different kicks; love the banana bender at the posts and the ‘22 final series was punctuated by lots of little dinks behind the lines for tries (in all three games). Would love to see that at Origin level, but we know he can do it in the big games.

I don't think he's kicking terribly... I just think he is definitely down on form and variation to where he has been at other times in his career.

I've said for probs 12+ months on here that he needs to watch Reynolds play and how he kicks to control a game.. this isn't new... Nathan gets to worried about kicking to a game plan and structure instead of playing eyes up footy and mixing it up. He's kicking game played right into qlds hands on Wednesday. They were ready and prepared for every kick he did...

He needs to get out of his mind or get rid of any game plan that involves certain kicks and kicks for field position.

He needs to kick to manage a game... there is times on a game when risks are needed or you need to challenge the line before a kick to bring the winger up etc...

Atm he's kicking is just way way to predictable.

Your stats for joey are fine... but with the amount of field possession and dominance nsw had the other night joey would've got it done easily.

There's plenty of issues around why I think the attack struggled.. Freddy picking blokes out of form... teddy kills the attack etc...

None of that helps I know.

But the Panthers ball attacking structures don't work at this level. Not unless there's some variety to it.. I mean our attacking structures has struggled this year... other than a few games our attack hasn't exactly set the world on fire....

Freddy's had 12 months to prepare and he hasn't come up with a single new thing...

I'd almost argue that since Billy took over as qld coach teams have figured penrith out a bit in terms of attacking structures. With api and kiks we could get by... but we've seen the struggles this year...

If Nathan wants to own it this year he needs to throw out the Panthers playbook.

Forget yeo being primary first receiver....

Throw qld off by all new game plan. Nath first receiver all the time and luai play both sides of the ruck and direct.

The yeo to a forward or yeo out the back to Nathan is done at this level..

I'd say yeo should be first receiver 20% of the time and 80% nath.

Freddy needs to mix up that structure

 

[Flashstep]

Maybe a bit blasphemous to say around these parts but I wouldn’t mind if NSW picked Gutho at fullback, I think he’s just as good as Edwards in a lot of areas, plus he’s a little better in attack. Our right edge really needed someone to help open it up since Tedesco is worthless. (Freddy won’t drop Tedesco anyway but whatever)

Luai had a decent game but I still think they should go Hynes at 6, the Cleary/Luai combo isn’t even really firing right now and they only combine on the left side, which pretty much made our right side useless and just made the game far easier for Queensland.

 

[BxTom]

Maybe a bit blasphemous to say around these parts but I wouldn’t mind if NSW picked Gutho at fullback, I think he’s just as good as Edwards in a lot of areas, plus he’s a little better in attack. Our right edge really needed someone to help open it up since Tedesco is worthless. (Freddy won’t drop Tedesco anyway but whatever)

Luai had a decent game but I still think they should go Hynes at 6, the Cleary/Luai combo isn’t even really firing right now and they only combine on the left side, which pretty much made our right side useless and just made the game far easier for Queensland.

I'd be happy if no panthers were selected. I'm much more interested in going for the 3peat

 

[Luke Bowden]

I don't think he's kicking terribly... I just think he is definitely down on form and variation to where he has been at other times in his career.

I've said for probs 12+ months on here that he needs to watch Reynolds play and how he kicks to control a game.. this isn't new... Nathan gets to worried about kicking to a game plan and structure instead of playing eyes up footy and mixing it up. He's kicking game played right into qlds hands on Wednesday. They were ready and prepared for every kick he did...

He needs to get out of his mind or get rid of any game plan that involves certain kicks and kicks for field position.

He needs to kick to manage a game... there is times on a game when risks are needed or you need to challenge the line before a kick to bring the winger up etc...

Atm he's kicking is just way way to predictable.

Your stats for joey are fine... but with the amount of field possession and dominance nsw had the other night joey would've got it done easily.

There's plenty of issues around why I think the attack struggled.. Freddy picking blokes out of form... teddy kills the attack etc...

None of that helps I know.

But the Panthers ball attacking structures don't work at this level. Not unless there's some variety to it.. I mean our attacking structures has struggled this year... other than a few games our attack hasn't exactly set the world on fire....

Freddy's had 12 months to prepare and he hasn't come up with a single new thing...

I'd almost argue that since Billy took over as qld coach teams have figured penrith out a bit in terms of attacking structures. With api and kiks we could get by... but we've seen the struggles this year...

If Nathan wants to own it this year he needs to throw out the Panthers playbook.

Forget yeo being primary first receiver....

Throw qld off by all new game plan. Nath first receiver all the time and luai play both sides of the ruck and direct.

The yeo to a forward or yeo out the back to Nathan is done at this level..

I'd say yeo should be first receiver 20% of the time and 80% nath.

Freddy needs to mix up that structure

How do you know that our structures don’t work at Origin? They haven’t ever been tried? In the last 3 years NSW haven’t used our structure once.

 

[Sime_11]

I'd be happy if no panthers were selected. I'm much more interested in going for the 3peat

Origin gets forgotten very quickly once over for another year.

if your team is a genuine chance for the Comp - Origin takes a backseat

3peat would be very very very nice

 

[Girds89]

How do you know that our structures don’t work at Origin? They haven’t ever been tried? In the last 3 years NSW haven’t used our structure once.

Mate cmon...

I'm with you on marto but you are soo sooo far off the mark if you don't think the team doesn't play panthers ball in attack...

Like actually dreaming.

The whole teams been picked literally to play that way. It is exactly the reason why cook was dropped and api picked... api gives good clean early ball to yeo..

I'm telling you now Billy has the Panthers structures worked out to a tee. It's so obvious... when yeo gets it they jam up on the 2nd link man..

Whether that be yeo to nath in the middle or the right or nath to luai on the left side...

It's all become very predictable.

Nsw had all the possession the other night and we never really looked like scoring because Billy knows Freddie was going to pick Nathan and he knows how Nathan plays...

So he has studied us and worked us out...

They need to mix up the attack in a massive way and I think penrith do too...

It's why our attack has struggled alot this year even tho we get in scoring positions alot... bills qlders have the blueprint on how to breakdown our attack...

For me personally I think there's a few simple changes...

Unless it's a prop/wing/centre taking a crash run out of our own half... Nathan is full time first receiver..

Yeo plays on outside Nathan both sides of the field and has a big body running off him.

Luai plays outside Nathan both sides of the field as the 2nd link man and Edwards or teddy runs off luais hip straight against the grain at speed... none of this sideways crap teddy does..

Having teddy or luai on the inside hip stops the line sliding and gives luai time to run or straighten to his outside men... if they do slide hit the fb back on the inside...

Atm what nsw did is what we did...

Yeo 1st receiver either plays short to a prop or out the back to nath.... if it's on the right nath plays short to a 2nd rower or out the back to a sideways running fb...

On the left it's nath short to a 2nd rower or out the back to luai..

Billy knows this and teams jam hard on the 2nd link man on the left... so normally luai... or on the right they jam hard on the 3rd link man normally teddy or dylan for us.

Moving yeo wider and luai playing both sides mixes it up... means your only playing with 2 link man both sides and your using your fb to straighten up the attack not crab sideways and take up all the space..

Dylan's best attribute is the same as teddy's.. they are both good runners of the footy and high tackle breakers..

If latrell was fb you could get him playing that 3rd link man role because he is a top class ball player and is extremely hard to bring down for 1 player jamming in... he can easily brush off one bloke..

Fyi is doesn't always have to be nath first receiver... luai can get in their a bit a threaten to run at tired forwards or go out the back to nath..

But it's clearly not working

 

[Luke Bowden]

Mate cmon...

I'm with you on marto but you are soo sooo far off the mark if you don't think the team doesn't play panthers ball in attack...

Like actually dreaming.

The whole teams been picked literally to play that way. It is exactly the reason why cook was dropped and api picked... api gives good clean early ball to yeo..

I'm telling you now Billy has the Panthers structures worked out to a tee. It's so obvious... when yeo gets it they jam up on the 2nd link man..

Whether that be yeo to nath in the middle or the right or nath to luai on the left side...

It's all become very predictable.

Nsw had all the possession the other night and we never really looked like scoring because Billy knows Freddie was going to pick Nathan and he knows how Nathan plays...

So he has studied us and worked us out...

They need to mix up the attack in a massive way and I think penrith do too...

It's why our attack has struggled alot this year even tho we get in scoring positions alot... bills qlders have the blueprint on how to breakdown our attack...

For me personally I think there's a few simple changes...

Unless it's a prop/wing/centre taking a crash run out of our own half... Nathan is full time first receiver..

Yeo plays on outside Nathan both sides of the field and has a big body running off him.

Luai plays outside Nathan both sides of the field as the 2nd link man and Edwards or teddy runs off luais hip straight against the grain at speed... none of this sideways crap teddy does..

Having teddy or luai on the inside hip stops the line sliding and gives luai time to run or straighten to his outside men... if they do slide hit the fb back on the inside...

Atm what nsw did is what we did...

Yeo 1st receiver either plays short to a prop or out the back to nath.... if it's on the right nath plays short to a 2nd rower or out the back to a sideways running fb...

On the left it's nath short to a 2nd rower or out the back to luai..

Billy knows this and teams jam hard on the 2nd link man on the left... so normally luai... or on the right they jam hard on the 3rd link man normally teddy or dylan for us.

Moving yeo wider and luai playing both sides mixes it up... means your only playing with 2 link man both sides and your using your fb to straighten up the attack not crab sideways and take up all the space..

Dylan's best attribute is the same as teddy's.. they are both good runners of the footy and high tackle breakers..

If latrell was fb you could get him playing that 3rd link man role because he is a top class ball player and is extremely hard to bring down for 1 player jamming in... he can easily brush off one bloke..

Fyi is doesn't always have to be nath first receiver... luai can get in their a bit a threaten to run at tired forwards or go out the back to nath..

But it's clearly not working

You’re not telling me anything mate, the entire time Freddy has been picking Panther players, he been coaching them to play in a very different structure.

I can tell from your post that you don’t understand what I’m saying and that’s fine.

But unless you can tell me in 1 paragraph, what “Panther Ball” is, you’re wasting my time.

It’s hard either, it’s quite a simple structure with very few moving parts. Unlike the jumbled up nonsense that the blues have been serving ip

 

[Chins get the wins]

Mate cmon...

I'm with you on marto but you are soo sooo far off the mark if you don't think the team doesn't play panthers ball in attack...

Like actually dreaming.

The whole teams been picked literally to play that way. It is exactly the reason why cook was dropped and api picked... api gives good clean early ball to yeo..

I'm telling you now Billy has the Panthers structures worked out to a tee. It's so obvious... when yeo gets it they jam up on the 2nd link man..

Whether that be yeo to nath in the middle or the right or nath to luai on the left side...

It's all become very predictable.

Nsw had all the possession the other night and we never really looked like scoring because Billy knows Freddie was going to pick Nathan and he knows how Nathan plays...

So he has studied us and worked us out...

They need to mix up the attack in a massive way and I think penrith do too...

It's why our attack has struggled alot this year even tho we get in scoring positions alot... bills qlders have the blueprint on how to breakdown our attack...

For me personally I think there's a few simple changes...

Unless it's a prop/wing/centre taking a crash run out of our own half... Nathan is full time first receiver..

Yeo plays on outside Nathan both sides of the field and has a big body running off him.

Luai plays outside Nathan both sides of the field as the 2nd link man and Edwards or teddy runs off luais hip straight against the grain at speed... none of this sideways crap teddy does..

Having teddy or luai on the inside hip stops the line sliding and gives luai time to run or straighten to his outside men... if they do slide hit the fb back on the inside...

Atm what nsw did is what we did...

Yeo 1st receiver either plays short to a prop or out the back to nath.... if it's on the right nath plays short to a 2nd rower or out the back to a sideways running fb...

On the left it's nath short to a 2nd rower or out the back to luai..

Billy knows this and teams jam hard on the 2nd link man on the left... so normally luai... or on the right they jam hard on the 3rd link man normally teddy or dylan for us.

Moving yeo wider and luai playing both sides mixes it up... means your only playing with 2 link man both sides and your using your fb to straighten up the attack not crab sideways and take up all the space..

Dylan's best attribute is the same as teddy's.. they are both good runners of the footy and high tackle breakers..

If latrell was fb you could get him playing that 3rd link man role because he is a top class ball player and is extremely hard to bring down for 1 player jamming in... he can easily brush off one bloke..

Fyi is doesn't always have to be nath first receiver... luai can get in their a bit a threaten to run at tired forwards or go out the back to nath..

But it's clearly not working

Most of this is spot on but Api is also just simply better than Cook

 

[CCJohnC]

My only belated comment is that NSW right side: Frizell Trbojevic Addo-Carr and when Cleary passed that way Frizell got the ball and that was it a dead end.

 

[Luke Bowden]

My only belated comment is that NSW right side: Frizell Trbojevic Addo-Carr and when Cleary passed that way Frizell got the ball and that was it a dead end.

Tedesco runs the Right side for the Blues, like he does for The Roosters.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

I'd be happy if no panthers were selected. I'm much more interested in going for the 3peat

Even better to replace them with Souffs players. Work them to the bone!

 

[Girds89]

You’re not telling me anything mate, the entire time Freddy has been picking Panther players, he been coaching them to play in a very different structure.

I can tell from your post that you don’t understand what I’m saying and that’s fine.

But unless you can tell me in 1 paragraph, what “Panther Ball” is, you’re wasting my time.

It’s hard either, it’s quite a simple structure with very few moving parts. Unlike the jumbled up nonsense that the blues have been serving ip

I've explained several times in multiple threads including this one what panthers attacking ball is... most seem to get it..

And yes nsw have been playing panthers ball.... hence the whole spine bar teddy being panthers players or past players... it's the exact structures used at Penrith.

I'll dumb it down as much as possible...

Basically our attack revolves around yeo... he either links short to a forward or out the back to a half....

It's NOT working.. Billy worked it out last year and Freddy's done nothing to change it.

Can be in denial or you like but they are the facts.

 

[Luke Bowden]

I've explained several times in multiple threads including this one what panthers attacking ball is... most seem to get it..

And yes nsw have been playing panthers ball.... hence the whole spine bar teddy being panthers players or past players... it's the exact structures used at Penrith.

I'll dumb it down as much as possible...

Basically our attack revolves around yeo... he either links short to a forward or out the back to a half....

It's NOT working.. Billy worked it out last year and Freddy's done nothing to change it.

Can be in denial or you like but they are the facts.

So you don’t know.

PS “Panther Ball” isn’t a thing. The Panthers didn’t invent some crazy new attacking system.

The structure we use has been around for a long time. The club that I coach at use a variation, as do most of the clubs in the Penrith district.

You’re talking nonsense.

 

[isaiah]

And minutes wise Haas/Paulo need more. You can play Leinu in Paulos' role off the bench and he will be much more effective.

Has Leniu ever played even three quarters of an nrl game? Soft.

 

[Girds89]

So you don’t know.

PS “Panther Ball” isn’t a thing. The Panthers didn’t invent some crazy new attacking system.

The structure we use has been around for a long time. The club that I coach at use a variation, as do most of the clubs in the Penrith district.

You’re talking nonsense.

You are kidding yourself. Some of the things you say make no sense.

Panthers revolutionised the game with the way yeo plays.

He has become the best forward in the game.. because he has become such a good ball player and plays as a first receiver...

Since the start of time your 7 in attack was normally your first receiver and directs the team around the field..

Panthers changed that about 3.5/4 years ago and made yeo the first receiver. He directs the team.

He decides when to play short or out the back..

It's not some secret... literally every commentator talks about it... how yeo is an extra playmaker out there who directs the team around...

Who has done that before??? What teams have used that tactic??

Lewis was a decent ball playing forward but he was never the point of attack at lock...

Teams have tried to copy us with our success since we started it.. but no one does it as good as yeo..

It works at club level.. but billy's worked out how to counter it in origin...

Was yeo playing first receiver on Wednesday? Yep....

Go back and watch the knights with joey or broncs with Alfie...

Find me a 13 that was first receiver all game directing the team around.

You're really off the mark with this.

And it's not like I've just been saying this since Wednesday...

Most half decent pundits that understand the game knew we'd need to change up our attack this year to keep our attack firing..

Ivan's kept playing the same style he created and has played for the last 4 years and teams are getting better and better at handling us.

I mean can you honestly tell me watching a game that it isn't incredibly obvious who is getting the ball when we set up...

It's fine yeo playing first receiver but the ratio needs to change from 80% yeo to 80% nathan

 

[Fangs]

Has Leniu ever played even three quarters of an nrl game? Soft.

Give him a break he ruptured a testicle champ.