Strange new Format thoughts

[deluded pom?]

Seemed pretty clear to me.



In the P/R group, as the teams come from different leagues, the table starts again. Top 3 automatically qualify for SL1 next year, bottom 3 SL2

If it's that clear to you then what happens to the other two teams in the P/R group? After all from eight teams you have the top three up to SL and the bottom three to the division below. That leaves two teams in no man's land.

 

[Bovrick]

If it's that clear to you then what happens to the other two teams in the P/R group? After all from eight teams you have the top three up to SL and the bottom three to the division below. That leaves two teams in no man's land.

Promotion Final: 4v5 from the middle group play to determine the last team to make it into SL1

 

[roughyedspud]

the RFL document doesn't say that though....if it did we wouldn't be talking about it wondering what it means lol

 

[Bovrick]

the RFL document doesn't say that though....if it did we wouldn't be talking about it wondering what it means lol

5.1.14 From 2015 the Super League (Tier 1) will comprise 12 teams.
5.1.15 From 2015 the Championship (Tier 2) will comprise 12 teams.
5.1.16 Both divisions will play a main league format of 23 matches, with every club playing each other home and away and a Magic event in both leagues.
5.1.17 The Magic event will be staggered to give each division an opportunity to attract significant media attention.
5.1.18 After 23 rounds the season Play Offs will commence with the 24 teams splitting into three groups of 8.
5.1.19 The top 8 will compete in the Super League Play Offs.
5.1.20 The middle 8 will compete in the Super League Qualifying Play Offs.
5.1.21 The third 8 will compete in the Championship Shield.
5.1.22 Each Play Off group will comprise 7 fixtures. In the Super League Play Offs and the Championships Play Offs (i.e. top 8 and third 8) the four highest ranked clubs will receive the benefit of four home fixtures.
5.1.23 In the Super League Qualifying Play Offs (the middle 8) the four teams who have qualified from the Championship will receive the benefit of 4 home game fixtures.
5.1.24 Thereafter, in the Super League Play Offs and Championships Play Offs (top 8 and third 8), two Semi-Finals will be contested with teams as follows; 1 v 4 and 2 v 3, with home advantage being available to the highest ranked side.
5.1.25 From the two semi-finals the Super League Grand Final and Championship Shield Grand Final will be constructed.
5.1.26 In the Super League Qualifying Play Offs no Semi-Finals or Grand Final are envisaged. The first three teams in this ?mini league? will qualify for re-admission into the Super League competition for the following year. However, at the end of the Play Offs series, the team ranked fourth will play the team ranked fifth in a one-off game to determine the last Super League place for the following season.
5.1.27 In the top and third 8s, league points will be taken forward into the Play-Offs. Clearly it will not be possible for the middle 8 to carry points forward.
5.1.28 The bottom two clubs from the Championships Play Offs will be relegated to Championship One (Tier 3) for the following season.
5.1.29 The champion club from Tier 3 will be automatically promoted and a second club will be promoted via a Play Off system comprising clubs 2 to 5 in that competition.

 

[byrner]

Seems clear to me.

 

[roughyedspud]

its worded very badly lol...


and way too much emphsis has been put on the 3x8 split and how its "two-thirds" of the way through the season....


clubs are gonna play a full home & away season first...then its 2 play off events and a bottom8 divisional comp....

and over time the 7 extra rounds will become just 7 "play off fixtures"...

 

[hutch]

I am probably in the minority, but I like the new system. Makes every game exciting, teams forever fighting for positions and 3 exciting playoff series running parallel.
My only concern is France. I know it's discriminatory, but the Catalans simply should not be allowed to be relegated. They are far too important to our sport. Further to that, a second French team needs to be in the too division as well. I know people will blow up because their clubs will be relegated unfairly, I don't care. The sport needs to continue to grow in France. It is our next big hope!

 

[Evil Homer]

So there's no difference between finishing 1st and finishing 8th? Or between finishing 9th and finishing 12th? Surely that is much less 'meaningful' than what we have now?

 

[Bronco Rob]

I like the concept and agree that it will make the competition more exciting but I just have a few question marks:

• The SL2 top 4 after being top 4 of their H & A fixtures could come out of the season basically empty handed if they miss out on promotion where team 5-8 are SL2 winners?
• Is there going to be player overload with 23 regular fixtures then 7 more then semi and final - 32 games plus CC fixtures?
• What happens if SL2 sides make promotion but are not willing or not ready to make the step-up, if this occurs regularly it could hinder the whole concept.
• What is going to happen with the Valvoline Cup (20's) and Championship 20's comps?

I do like the bottom 2 of SL2 are relegated as well, makes every game more meaningful.

So there's no difference between finishing 1st and finishing 8th? Or between finishing 9th and finishing 12th? Surely that is much less 'meaningful' than what we have now?

With carried forward points into the final fixtures then I'm sure clubs will want to get as high and as many points as they can but I see your point that teams who are 9-12 will want to be in the top 8 but if the writings on the wall for those teams that have no hope of making the 8 in SL1 before the split then there is nothing really to play for.

Still I think the positives outweigh the negatives and it will probably drive more interest from overseas RL fans to see who will make each tier and who gets promoted or relegated.

 

[hutch]

They are 4 good questions bronco rob! I also want to know what happens to championship 1 teams who are ready to make the jump up a division. Is there a way they can be promoted?

 

[roughyedspud]

I like the concept and agree that it will make the competition more exciting but I just have a few question marks:

• The SL2 top 4 after being top 4 of their H & A fixtures could come out of the season basically empty handed if they miss out on promotion where team 5-8 are SL2 winners?
• Is there going to be player overload with 23 regular fixtures then 7 more then semi and final - 32 games plus CC fixtures?
• What happens if SL2 sides make promotion but are not willing or not ready to make the step-up, if this occurs regularly it could hinder the whole concept.
• What is going to happen with the Valvoline Cup (20's) and Championship 20's comps?

I do like the bottom 2 of SL2 are relegated as well, makes every game more meaningful.

i'll give these a crack.....but i'll refer to tier 2 as the championship cos thats what its called...not SL2

1. what you mean teams 5-8 are "SL2" winners??

from what i can gather the championship winner will come from the regular 23 game season...the team that tops the league will be champions...

teams 5th to 12th will play in a "championship shield" mini comp..


2. yes!........which is why a 23 game regular season plus a 7 fixture play off would have made far more sense


3, god knows...


4. no one know....even the RFL

 

[Bovrick]

So there's no difference between finishing 1st and finishing 8th? Or between finishing 9th and finishing 12th? Surely that is much less 'meaningful' than what we have now?

Finishing between 1st and 8th means more than now (points carry over and only the top 4 make the Semi Finals).

9th and 12th it does appear holds no distinction. But I suppose that's hardly different to now, or the NRL, with respect to actually winning anything, and in terms of having the challenge to "make the 8". But I guess the teams out of touch with the 8 have nothing to play for until they enter Group 2/Promotion League/whatever... but currently they have nothing to play for until the next season.

 

[Wilson1]

They are 4 good questions bronco rob! I also want to know what happens to championship 1 teams who are ready to make the jump up a division. Is there a way they can be promoted?

There is already promotion and relegation between the Championship and Championship 1. I don't see why that would change.

I don't see why a team in the Championship wouldn't want to get promoted to the Super League. No one ever complained about being in the top division in over 100 years of promotion/relegation.

 

[roughyedspud]

championship clubs are set to recieve around £600-650k per season in central funding....a huge increase on the £90k they currently get...

 

[The Great Dane]

championship clubs are set to recieve around £600-650k per season in central funding....a huge increase on the £90k they currently get...

Serious question, where is the funding for this new format coming from?

As far as I am aware and it's possible that I am wrong, no new funding (apart from the money from the WC, but that's obviously not a sustainable source of income) is going into the RFL, so how is the RFL going to be able to fund this new structure over the long term?

Considering that for promotion and regulation to work (properly) the promoted teams need to be relatively competitive with the teams in the top division and vise versa (to prevent yo-yoing), how is the RFL going to be able to support all these extra clubs with the extra expenses that they will have to be competitive, I mean considering the current amount of money troubles that many of the ESL clubs have had recently I think it is unrealistic to expect that all the championship and championship 1 clubs will be able to handle the new load.

Or is the RFL just going to take the survival of the fittest approach and let the clubs that can't keep up fall behind.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Serious question, where is the funding for this new format coming from?

As far as I am aware and it's possible that I am wrong, no new funding (apart from the money from the WC, but that's obviously not a sustainable source of income) is going into the RFL, so how is the RFL going to be able to fund this new structure over the long term?

Considering that for promotion and regulation to work (properly) the promoted teams need to be relatively competitive with the teams in the top division and vise versa (to prevent yo-yoing), how is the RFL going to be able to support all these extra clubs with the extra expenses that they will have to be competitive, I mean considering the current amount of money troubles that many of the ESL clubs have had recently I think it is unrealistic to expect that all the championship and championship 1 clubs will be able to handle the new load.

Or is the RFL just going to take the survival of the fittest approach and let the clubs that can't keep up fall behind.

Well since two clubs are being dropped from SL that's an extra 2.4 between the 12 2nd tier clubs working out at 200k each. So there is a gap of roughly 300k between the existing and new funding. I would expect to begin with they have forecast an increase in attendance and sponsorship.

 

[roughyedspud]

the RFL hasn't made any money from the world cup...


and i don't know where the funding is gonna come from?....but lets not fall into the trap of thinking the RFL is a skint ,tin pot organisation...far from it,iirc the last annual finacial report recored a turnover of £30m and it put around £10m of that back into the clubs....it has enough money in the bank to buy osdal stadium at the drop of a hat....

plus they aren't giving the celtic nations £300-400k a year anymore....and they don't give the RLEF a fat cheque anymore which they did for the best part of 10years...

i guess they've just restructured where they spend their revenue.

 

[The Great Dane]

Well since two clubs are being dropped from SL that's an extra 2.4 between the 12 2nd tier clubs working out at 200k each. So there is a gap of roughly 300k between the existing and new funding. I would expect to begin with they have forecast an increase in attendance and sponsorship.

the RFL hasn't made any money from the world cup...


and i don't know where the funding is gonna come from?....but lets not fall into the trap of thinking the RFL is a skint ,tin pot organisation...far from it,iirc the last annual finacial report recored a turnover of £30m and it put around £10m of that back into the clubs....it has enough money in the bank to buy osdal stadium at the drop of a hat....

plus they aren't giving the celtic nations £300-400k a year anymore....and they don't give the RLEF a fat cheque anymore which they did for the best part of 10years...

i guess they've just restructured where they spend their revenue.

Seems fair enough.

 

[The Showstopper]

It was always an option until the licensing system started in 2008 from memory

You are correct. My wording was poor. I meant in recent years. In Australia we would never allow it because we are frankly not intrested in second tier anything which is why when we struggle in sport we really struggle. We lose immense talents because we think unless they are up to it at 19 then it is all over. The number of Holden Cup kids we lose is a joke. Most of those kids would go well playing in the ESL or a second tier team over there. I believ the NRL has a responsibility to help the ESL develop itself better. The only way the international game will ever thrive.

 

[roughyedspud]

going by what you just wrote its sounds like NRL is struggling to develop its kids.....let alone help us develop lol

so how about the NRL just worries about sorting out its reserve grade...