Stuart MacGill

[El Diablo]

Tasmania piss it in but what can you expect when we have Stuart MacGill in the team.

This bloke should never be allowed to play for NSW let alone Australia. Can't bat or bowl. Go back to WA, MacGill.

 

[tigermite]

Tasmania piss it in but what can you expect when we have Stuart MacGill in the team.

This bloke should never be allowed to play for NSW let alone Australia. Can't bat or bowl. Go back to WA, MacGill.

Huh?? He got 7 wickets for the match.... easily better than any other bowler in the NSW attack.

 

[El Diablo]

Tasmania piss it in but what can you expect when we have Stuart MacGill in the team.

This bloke should never be allowed to play for NSW let alone Australia. Can't bat or bowl. Go back to WA, MacGill.

Huh?? He got 7 wickets for the match.... easily better than any other bowler in the NSW attack.

And what a great bowling lineup we had. MacGill got belted in the second innings as per usual. He's a joke.

 

[Doctor]

MacGill's sporadic selections have proven valuable over the years for Australia. For a player who has produced Warne-like performances when given a chance, I cannot fault his ability to fill in for Warne.

How you believe MacGill is not worthy of a spot for NSW is confusing, given his performances in recent times and long-term.
In 2003 he has taken 44 wickets at the respectable average of 27 per wicket (Strike rate of 52)

In the same time period, Brett Lee has taken 34 wickets at 33 - a higher strike-rate (58) , a higher average, less wickets, more expensive (economy of 3.43 compared to 3.09). Lee is yet to take a 5 wicket haul this season, wheras MacGill has 4 5ers including a 10 wicket haul.

Glenn McGrath, one of Australia's greatest fast bowlers in history, has averaged 35 this season, at the measily economy of 2.11, but at a strike rate of 99, nearly twice that of MacGill.

The next spinner in line (based on recent selections) is Brad Hogg -averaging 47 in 2003, economy of 3.4, strike-rate of 84 and is yet to take a 5er.

I could continue, but I'm sure Brett Lee and Glenn McGrath are both seen as quality long-term cricketers, and Hogg is seen as the next in line. Both have been off their game of late, but you argue that MacGill cannot bowl - clearly he can.

I see you do not agree with MacGill's selection, but statistically your opinion has little going for it. I'm not sure where else to go with this - your argument is dead in the water.

Will you be putting your hand up to bowl leg spin for Australia in MacGill and Warne's absence?

 

[Doctor]

For the record, MacGill took 48 Pura Cup wickets last season, averaging 26.83, including a 5/16, three 5 wicket hauls, strike-rate of 48 and economy of 3.32.

Cameron White is the only respected spinner to achieve this standard: 28 wickets at the average of 25, st/r of 51 including a 6/66.

Others include Brad Hogg who averaged 33, Nathan Hauritz at 35, with a s/r of 86. Not terribly flash.

And suggestions MacGill gets smashed in the second innings is unwarranted - perhaps at state level this is proven, but surely a spinner would bowl better in the second innings? I'm not sure you want these facts but this year he has averaged 26 in the second innings, economy of 3.43, including 5/36.

For his career his stats are better - economy of 3 runs/over, averaging 26, including five 5-wicket hauls.

 

[El Diablo]

You can go on all day with your stats. MacGill is useless.

 

[Doctor]

Well quite frankly you can go all day with baseless opinion, but not only do the NSW and Australian selectors agree with MacGill's ability, so do all the stats and all the batsmen that have faced MacGill.

You're entitled to opinion, but you are the one going on about 'evidence' all the time - sincere ignorance of the facts is your right, but it has a great potential to make you look foolish.

 

[El Diablo]

I notice in the other thread you go on about grounds in saying things about Tendulkar's average yet when you bring up stats on MacGill you fail to mention his home ground suits spinners as opposed to Hogg's. Interesting.

 

[Doctor]

I notice in the other thread you go on about grounds in saying things about Tendulkar's average yet when you bring up stats on MacGill you fail to mention his home ground suits spinners as opposed to Hogg's. Interesting.

If you had cared to read the thread, I said these sort of factors such as ground size, wicket favourability, weather conditions etc have a small part to play in statistics. As I said elsewhere, I take nothing away from players like Tendulkar because these minor statistical variations should not detract from the ability of a great player to perform.

Your decision to only pick out Brad Hogg is also interesting. Hogg's bowling over the years has been ordinary, and his only times of international representation have come on the back of one or two good seasons in domestic cricket. MacGill has remained fairly consistent over the years he has played for NSW and Australia.

Let us also not forget that at least half of Hogg's matches are played outside WA - MacGill plays about half his matches in NSW on a pitch that is increasingly becoming conducive to batting and not spin. Let us also not forget that MacGill is the leading first class wicket-taker this season, with the second lowest average (19). You cannot bash those figures around and make them look terrible.

I give you stats - Hogg's First Class bowling average is 42 - not 26 - but 42. I realise that Hogg was initially not considered a bowler, but even his Test average (since he has become a bowler) is woeful at 50.

Factoring in things like ground, pitch and weather conditions is all well and good - but only as a way of explaining minor differences. I would be willing to concede MacGill has an advantage by 4 to 5 runs per wicket, but it still does not explain a FC average of 42. That is a big decrepancy.

 

[El Diablo]

How is MacGil leading the wickets?

I'm looking here and he's not even on the list although I know he's taken 7 wickets.

 

[Doctor]

How is MacGil leading the wickets?

I'm looking here and he's not even on the list although I know he's taken 7 wickets.

If you cannot argue the figures you turn to disputing the figures entirely. I should have known you would use the old ' there is no spoon ' angle.

Once again I stand by what I said:

MacGill is the leading first class wicket-taker this season, with the second lowest average (19). You cannot bash those figures around and make them look terrible.

The stats are provided by Cricket Australia from statistician Ross Dundas. Jason Gillespie has the lowest average (14.25) and next highest wicket-count with 16 wickets.

The list you are looking at probably does not incorporate test matches - although it has Bichel at 2 matches which could have only been the two Tests Vs Zimbabwe - my guess is that Dundas is right - he is afterall the official stats man.

2003-04 AUSTRALIAN FIRST-CLASS CRICKET AVERAGES

BATTING (Minimum 200 runs) M Inn NO Runs H.S 50 100 Avrge
DJ Marsh TAS 2 3 2 251 107* 2 1 251.00
SM Katich AUS/NSW 3 5 2 482 182* 2 2 160.67
ML Love AUS/QLD 4 5 2 435 300* - 2 145.00
ML Hayden AUS 4 5 1 562 380 1 2 140.50
SR Waugh AUS/NSW 6 8 3 669 157 2 4 133.80
MJ Di Venuto TAS 2 3 1 260 174* 1 1 130.00
DS Lehmann AUS 3 3 - 317 177 - 2 105.67
MW Goodwin W.A 2 4 1 299 201* 1 1 99.67
DA Fitzgerald S.A 2 4 1 259 202* - 1 86.33
RT Ponting AUS 4 5 1 328 169 2 1 82.00
GS Blewett S.A 2 4 - 295 171 1 1 73.75
MTG Elliott VIC 2 4 - 214 106 1 1 53.50
JL Langer AUS/W.A 5 7 1 275 163* 1 1 45.83
CB Wishart ZIM 3 6 1 224 100 - 1 44.80
MJ North W.A 3 6 1 224 80 2 - 44.80
MA Vermeulen ZIM 3 6 - 234 63 1 - 39.00

BOWLING (Minimum 6 wkts) M Overs Mdns Runs Wkts Avrge Best
JN Gillespie AUS 3 90.1 23 228 16 14.25 4/38
SCG MacGill AUS/NSW 4 155.5 37 497 26 19.12 5/56
DG Wright TAS 2 101.0 30 253 12 21.08 4/50
PC Rofe S.A 2 74.2 22 219 10 21.90 5/89
CL White VIC 2 63.0 9 194 8 24.25 4/27
AJ Bichel AUS 2 92.4 29 255 10 25.50 4/63
SM Katich AUS/NSW 3 61.3 3 206 8 25.75 6/65
J Angel W.A 2 84.4 30 208 8 26.00 3/48
SW Tait S.A 2 50.0 8 184 7 26.29 4/61
MJ Nicholson NSW 2 83.0 18 242 9 26.89 4/69
PC Worthington W.A 3 84.4 22 270 10 27.00 6/59
P Wilson W.A 3 109.0 44 278 10 27.80 4/41
MF Cleary S.A 2 60.0 10 201 7 28.71 5/102
JH Dawes QLD 2 93.2 23 275 9 30.56 4/89
SJ Jurgensen QLD 2 76.4 23 189 6 31.50 4/72
B Lee AUS 4 122.2 27 412 12 34.33 3/23
JR Hopes QLD 2 73.0 21 219 6 36.50 4/63
AG Downton TAS 2 98.5 21 325 8 40.63 5/71
B Casson W.A 3 104.1 13 405 8 50.63 4/141
AM Blignaut ZIM 3 73.0 7 356 6 59.33 3/83
RW Price ZIM 3 90.4 11 383 6 63.83 6/121

 

[El Diablo]

Why wouldn't I ask where you were getting the figures??

If you look at the link I provided he's not f**king on it. Are you really that stupid?

 

[Doctor]

Why wouldn't I ask where you were getting the figures??

If you look at the link I provided he's not f***ing on it. Are you really that stupid?

Well there is no real point in getting enraged now is there?
I'm not entirely sure what the issue is. Ross Dundas is the Cricket Australia statistian - if he gets it wrong, so do CA and hence I take his stats as they arrive in my inbox.

Secondly, I did look at the link. What you may find is that the stats refer to every match either post Bangladesh, or including Bangladesh. I'm not entirely sure, but the first class figures can depend on when they define a season to have commenced. I would regard Bangladesh as neither 2002/03 nor 03/04 - but it has to fit somewhere.

Am I really that stupid? Perhaps I am stupid given that you're going off at me with little or no cause to do so - I have no ideas as to why you're swearing and implying I am stupid. Believe it or not, but there may actually be two statistians working for CricInfo and/or Cricket Australia.

 

[El Diablo]

I think Bangladesh would be classed as season 2003 solely.

 

[El Diablo]

Am I really that stupid? Perhaps I am stupid given that you're going off at me with little or no cause to do so - I have no ideas as to why you're swearing and implying I am stupid. Believe it or not, but there may actually be two statistians working for CricInfo and/or Cricket Australia.

No cause?

You accused me of disputing the facts. I went to the OFFICIAL ACB site and got their stats which didn't match your so I asked you a question.

How the f**k am I supposed to know where you get your stats and if they're legit if they are different than those on the ACB site?

 

[ozzie]

IMO - McGill isthe second best spinner in Australia - the best one is sitting on the side lines..

If someone cn come up with a better name - for the second spinner put it in -but Hogg..you have to be joking..

He is a good one day player but when players can sweat on him in test matches -he will be belted all around the ground.

 

[Doctor]

IMO - McGill isthe second best spinner in Australia - the best one is sitting on the side lines..

If someone cn come up with a better name - for the second spinner put it in -but Hogg..you have to be joking..

He is a good one day player but when players can sweat on him in test matches -he will be belted all around the ground.

I agree. MacGill is the next in line, and his performances point towards that being the case.
As far as other possibilities go, in the next few seasons players like Nathan Hauritz, Cameron White etc may make claims at ODI selection - certainly Hauritz has already been shown to possess some run-slowing bowling skills.

Test Match spinners need to be game-breakers, Warne and MacGill fit this mould. To a certain extent Cameron White's bowling is emerging as a possibility. He has taken wickets, remained fairly tidy, and has been given a vote of confidence by Victorian Cricket selectors when they named him captain. 20 or 21, he also still has time on his hands. He is a quickish leg-spinner, not much lateral movement, and not much flight. But he seems to pick up wickets, perhaps a decent straight one that comes quick and fast.

 

[El Diablo]

MacGill did another great job v S.A.

4/158 combined innings. Average of 39.5. Good stuff.

I decided to split some of the posts from the original thread and create a new topic so as it made more sense.

 

[Anonymous]

You are truly a goose.

MacGill takes test wickets at a more rapid rate than any other member of the current Aussie attack.

He has also been the leading ING Cup wicket taker 2 of the last 3 seasons. And had he not been playing for Australia his Pura Cup figures would have been even higher as well (not that they were low).


Who would you replace him with by the way? Zammit? O'Brien?

Sheesh. How could you possibly bag MacGilla.

 

[El Diablo]

You are truly a goose.

MacGill takes test wickets at a more rapid rate than any other member of the current Aussie attack.

Maybe you should check the figures here before making such statements.

He has also been the leading ING Cup wicket taker 2 of the last 3 seasons. And had he not been playing for Australia his Pura Cup figures would have been even higher as well (not that they were low).

Yes but his ING economy rate is shocking. He gets belted and he can't bat.

Also, he hasn't been in the Aus side much the last few years so he's missed bugger all. He played 10 Pura Cup matches last season.

Who would you replace him with by the way? Zammit? O'Brien?

Sheesh. How could you possibly bag MacGilla.

When Warney returns it'll be bye bye MacGill