Super League 14

[Jankuloski]

When you say they wont cost any money, surely they will get the SL grant same as the other clubs and then there are the costs of holding an extra game each round for the SL. Then travel has to be factored in and who will carry the cost of that? Pretty sure the SL players wont be happy with backpacker quality travel and accom that Toronto currently cover!

I want expansion but it has to be sustainable and add value to SL. Too many cases in last 20 years of failed expansion whims, lets have just one that is successful please!

I don’t think Catalans receive the SL grant and that they negotiate their own TV deal. Point of SL is that they earn money by holding games, that’s why there are so many matches in the season. They all travel economy and flights are the most expensive part.

And on top of that, all these are your hypotheticals, just being negative.

 

[Jankuloski]

As for promotion and relegation I think it’s just boring. Leigh and Widness are good Championship teams, but they never end up being competitive in Super League.

 

[roughyedspud]

If it was a closed shop,no P&R, then there's no incentive for businessmen like Beaumont at Leigh or Steve O'Connor at widnes to pump millions in the clubs to get them into SL...

 

[Jankuloski]

Ok, it helps the two clubs, but what does the sport gain by that?

 

[adamkungl]

Ok, it helps the two clubs, but what does the sport gain by that?

P&R is ingrained in English sport. The theoretical ability to go from bottom to the top seems to be something fans value highly.

I've thought for a while they should open it right up with a full pyramid rather than the current model which puts a glass floor below League One.

Super League roadmap:

1) Create a full, coherent, open international League pyramid structure with SL at the top.
2) Openly court investors to copy the Wolfpack method in other major markets in the UK and western Europe.
3) Instead of expanding SL to 14, use that (estimated) 4million pounds a year to invest more into Championship and League One. Championship should be a full time League.

 

[roughyedspud]

Ok, it helps the two clubs, but what does the sport gain by that?

You highlighted those two clubs and I told you millionaires pumped money into those two clubs to get them into SL..those two clubs could have been any two clubs..

Put it this way...on Tuesday the euromillions lottery is £77m,if I won that and theres P&R then oldham will be in SL within 5 years...but if it's a closed shop then I'm no going to waste my winnings....and why would any millionaire?

 

[Perth Red]

I don’t think Catalans receive the SL grant and that they negotiate their own TV deal. Point of SL is that they earn money by holding games, that’s why there are so many matches in the season. They all travel economy and flights are the most expensive part.

And on top of that, all these are your hypotheticals, just being negative.

Catalans do get the SL grant.
So you want the SL season to be even longer so they can play 2 more games? Really not sure that will make much for clubs and wont make anything for the SL administration who will have to find the costs of admitting two new clubs.
Nothing hypothetical about the fact two new clubs will cost around 3million pounds a year. Not seeing how their inclusion will return any money let alone that much? Its not like NRL where every game is shown so addition of an extra game can be sold to bring in more broadcast revenue.

 

[Perth Red]

You highlighted those two clubs and I told you millionaires pumped money into those two clubs to get them into SL..those two clubs could have been any two clubs..

Put it this way...on Tuesday the euromillions lottery is £77m,if I won that and theres P&R then oldham will be in SL within 5 years...but if it's a closed shop then I'm no going to waste my winnings....and why would any millionaire?

haha, I suspect there is not many lotto millionaires looking to fully fund a championship club into SL and beyond forever more! Of all the reasons for P&R I don't think giving lotto winners something to spend their winnings on is a particularly strong one!

 

[roughyedspud]

Substitute lotto winner for successful,millionaire businessman dickhead

 

[Perth Red]

How many of them are there in Oldham?

 

[adamkungl]

Devils advocate argument against P&R, kind of using spud's idea.

It allows wealthy fans to prop up small town teams which have a small chance of growing world class fanbases, putting up barriers to expansion teams who don't have existing fans but might have a much higher potential.

Closed shop Licencing allows the governing body to choose which markets to invest in without the chaos and challenges of promotion.


This isn't my view of how Super league would work, but there is a valid argument there.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Looks like the only reason the SL clubs want 14 is they see a pot of gold in Toronto and another franchise leaping into super league? What would be the ramifications for P&R, if it continues would the overseas teams be exempt from relegation? Could they so it so the lowest English side is relegated, would fans buy into that?

Personally I favour a 10 team super league and 10 team super league 2/championship with single P&R between the two. All 20 teams should be full time and access to the second league controlled by licensing. licensing. The various English, French etc.... Leagues would feed into this structure in the pyramid system. long term plan would be to increase each to 12 teams once financial and quality objectives are met. The initial struggle would be 20 full time teams so there may even need to be a couple of years of an 8 team SL2 while certain clubs put plans in place to go full time.

I think this allows the best balance of P&R and keeping the big and franchise clubs in the shop window of SL and the funds from dropping the top tier to 10 can be re-distributed into SL2 to allow full time pro to be a reality.

 

[roughyedspud]

How many of them are there in Oldham?

You'd be surprised...but our chairman wants $500,000 for the club and it's put off half a dozen potential buyers down the years.

 

[roughyedspud]

Closed shop Licencing allows the governing body to choose which markets to invest in without the chaos and challenges of promotion.

This isn't my view of how Super league would work, but there is a valid argument there.

But the thing is the RFL aren't investing a god damn thing in Toronto,Toulouse..or Boston,nyc,Hamilton etc..it's not costing the RFL a penny..

P&R,and I'm more than happy with 1up & 1down,but P&R dangles the carrot for wealthy individuals to plow money into lower league clubs..

Ste O'Connor plowed money into widnes to secure a franchise place when franchises where first brought in...it was a gamble and it paid off..

During the 1st franchise period Leigh,in the championship,went bust at least twice,from memory..it was only when franchising was scrapped that Derek Beaumont rocked up and started splashing the cash and Leigh won promotion...

Sheffield had a wealthy guy for a minute,they went full-time,but he jacked it in..

Rumour is koukash is gonna buy Bradford tomorrow...if SL was a closed shop there's zero chance he'd waste his money...

That P&R carrot invites investment...plain and simple

 

[deluded pom?]

But the thing is the RFL aren't investing a god damn thing in Toronto,Toulouse..or Boston,nyc,Hamilton etc..it's not costing the RFL a penny..

P&R,and I'm more than happy with 1up & 1down,but P&R dangles the carrot for wealthy individuals to plow money into lower league clubs..

Ste O'Connor plowed money into widnes to secure a franchise place when franchises where first brought in...it was a gamble and it paid off..

During the 1st franchise period Leigh,in the championship,went bust at least twice,from memory..it was only when franchising was scrapped that Derek Beaumont rocked up and started splashing the cash and Leigh won promotion...

Sheffield had a wealthy guy for a minute,they went full-time,but he jacked it in..

Rumour is koukash is gonna buy Bradford tomorrow...if SL was a closed shop there's zero chance he'd waste his money...

That P&R carrot invites investment...plain and simple

'spud put your spellchecker to ENGLISH not AMERICAN. It's plough. P-L-O-U-G-H ffs.

 

[roughyedspud]

FFS.. I was in the pub ....leave me alone!

 

[deluded pom?]

Next thing we know you'll be calling flats apartments!

 

[Jankuloski]

Catalans do get the SL grant.
So you want the SL season to be even longer so they can play 2 more games? Really not sure that will make much for clubs and wont make anything for the SL administration who will have to find the costs of admitting two new clubs.
Nothing hypothetical about the fact two new clubs will cost around 3million pounds a year. Not seeing how their inclusion will return any money let alone that much? Its not like NRL where every game is shown so addition of an extra game can be sold to bring in more broadcast revenue.

Totally see your point! Decrease the league to 8, save 12 million, increase attendance average and problem solved!

In a league where some teams play each other 4 times per year my point is defiitely not to increase the number of games, but less more competitive games.

Maybe with the adition of Toulouse and Toronto Sky would pick up a forth game. For sure the increased exposure will increase the sponsorship prices.

But considering you’re constructive and all, what do you suggest?

 

[roughyedspud]

Next thing we know you'll be calling flats apartments!

My address says apartment lol

 

[Perth Red]

Totally see your point! Decrease the league to 8, save 12 million, increase attendance average and problem solved!

In a league where some teams play each other 4 times per year my point is defiitely not to increase the number of games, but less more competitive games.

Maybe with the adition of Toulouse and Toronto Sky would pick up a forth game. For sure the increased exposure will increase the sponsorship prices.

But considering you’re constructive and all, what do you suggest?

TBh I'm not sure what is the answer in UK! They've tried both P&R and franchise systems and neither have worked well. They've tried growing the game by parachuting expansion teams in and that hasn't worked. They've tried letting expansion teams join lower levels and gain promotion but that isn't really working so far. The media interest is virtually zero and Sky continues to pay a pittance for the games coverage.

Its hard to say what the answer is! End of day interest in the game drives media coverage which drives value of broadcast rights which is the lifeblood of any professional sport. If having Toronto and Toulouse in drives UK interest in the SL then great, if they can be sustainable long term, great, but I'm not convinced of either. I guess little to lose other than a couple more expansion carcasses on the M62 hard shoulder