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Super League 14

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,542
You'd be surprised...but our chairman wants $500,000 for the club and it's put off half a dozen potential buyers down the years.

Why? There is currently P&R so surely if the interest was there for a rich backer to come in and push Oldham into SL the time has been perfect for last few years?
As you said happened at Leigh under this current system we have had for a few years so if all these millionaires were interested surely we'd have seen them over the last 5 years buying up championship clubs?
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
Why?

Why would anyone pay $500,000 for a club with zero assets? Think about it!

Also our chairman really struggles to maintain good relationships with local businesses,infact in the late 2000s a rich local businessman did buy a controlling stake in the club but,somehow,managed to wrestle back control of the club..

Another thing to take into consideration is that the top 2 teams get twice as much grant money as everyone else in the championship..intact the top 2 get nearly 3 times as much as the bottom 2..

So a businessman who buys swinton,rochdale, barrow etc would have to put in $400-500k a year just to compete with the top 2-3..

Like I said....P&R is a carrot...P&R and level funding is a big juicy t-bone steak.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
Totally see your point! Decrease the league to 8, save 12 million, increase attendance average and problem solved!

In a league where some teams play each other 4 times per year my point is defiitely not to increase the number of games, but less more competitive games.

Maybe with the adition of Toulouse and Toronto Sky would pick up a forth game. For sure the increased exposure will increase the sponsorship prices.

But considering you’re constructive and all, what do you suggest?

I would suggest that an 8 team pro second tier only be temporary- 2 seasons max. Have teams play 3 fixtures against each other and then a final round robin split between top 4 and bottom 4 to give 24 games total. Similar for top 10 super league, play each other twice then split into top/both 5 so 22 regular games followed by top 2 into grand final
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,624
Looks like the only reason the SL clubs want 14 is they see a pot of gold in Toronto and another franchise leaping into super league? What would be the ramifications for P&R, if it continues would the overseas teams be exempt from relegation? Could they so it so the lowest English side is relegated, would fans buy into that?

Personally I favour a 10 team super league and 10 team super league 2/championship with single P&R between the two. All 20 teams should be full time and access to the second league controlled by licensing. licensing. The various English, French etc.... Leagues would feed into this structure in the pyramid system. long term plan would be to increase each to 12 teams once financial and quality objectives are met. The initial struggle would be 20 full time teams so there may even need to be a couple of years of an 8 team SL2 while certain clubs put plans in place to go full time.

I think this allows the best balance of P&R and keeping the big and franchise clubs in the shop window of SL and the funds from dropping the top tier to 10 can be re-distributed into SL2 to allow full time pro to be a reality.

I like it
 

BuderusIsaBeast

Juniors
Messages
554
I just think they need to decide and comit to PR or licensing and keep it long term.

If its PR no gimick systems just straight 1 or 2 up and 1 or 2 down. No middle eights or million pound game. Fair system for everyone all new teams starting at the bottom.

If they want licensing they need to go all in and focus on big clubs in areas were the sport can grow. They need to keep the clubs to those who meet the higher standards. No Wakefield, Widnes, Salford or Leigh for example. Bring in Toronto, New York, Toulouse, London and dedicate money to helping them. Its not fair at all to a number of northern clubs but if they want to grow the sport and have a truly super league they need to comit to the risk it presents or continue to play it safe and carry on with P and R. Whatever they choose they need to stick with it
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
I just think they need to decide and comit to PR or licensing and keep it long term.

If its PR no gimick systems just straight 1 or 2 up and 1 or 2 down. No middle eights or million pound game. Fair system for everyone all new teams starting at the bottom.

If they want licensing they need to go all in and focus on big clubs in areas were the sport can grow. They need to keep the clubs to those who meet the higher standards. No Wakefield, Widnes, Salford or Leigh for example. Bring in Toronto, New York, Toulouse, London and dedicate money to helping them. Its not fair at all to a number of northern clubs but if they want to grow the sport and have a truly super league they need to comit to the risk it presents or continue to play it safe and carry on with P and R. Whatever they choose they need to stick with it
What criteria did you use to separate the haves and the have nots in your post? London's ground isn't fit for the SL whilst Leigh's, Salford and Widnes' is. London can't attract crowds in the top flight bigger than Leigh or Widnes.
 

deal.with.it

Juniors
Messages
2,086
One KPI could be population of the town the club plays in. Rather than a strict attendance minimum.

I like the idea of a fully pro SL and Championship and semi-pro league 1.

You just have to work out how much you can afford to spend, and therefore how many clubs make up SL and Championship.

To ensure sustainability, you want the RFL grants to cover at least the salary cap.

Someone do some quick math on the Sky TV deal, salary caps of SL and Championship (as an average - as it’s based on revenue), and work out how many clubs in each.
10 and 10? 12 and 8? 10 and 14?
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
Have seen some stories run in the sun and loverugbyleague about the 2x10 versus 14 SL structure. I wonder, in rugby league the no smoke without fire rule normally applies so maybe it has legs. Interesting take, the rumour mill suggesting the central funding pot would be restricted to the top 20 clubs in the case of 2x10. I guess they would just have to be very careful how they deal with that if it came to pass. pass.
 
Messages
11,933
Super League becoming independent is believed to be one part of the discussions around the structure for 2019.

That would mainly mean control over its own TV money and the ability to govern itself, to a degree, without the RFL.
The big boys at the top are becoming increasingly frustrated at how much of the pie they are being forced to give away, especially when they see that the primary reason the money is invested in the first place, is to show their games.

Whatever discussions are going on, there are three key elements from my point of view:

– Enabling the top clubs to grow as much as possible to compete with their NRL equivalents
– Expansion of the game in to new territories, such as Toronto and New York
– Ensuring a healthy and stable system for existing rugby league clubs to grow organically and continue developing the player pool

There is no doubt that rugby league needs, and wants, to expand. The RFL are almost singlehandedly flying the flag, with the NRL reluctant to do anything other than look after themselves.

It also needs to give a platform to money men who want to invest in clubs and help to expand.
That said, bending the rules to accommodate them is surely counter productive – the salary cap below Super League has changed massively in recent years due to pressure from certain clubs; there’s surely a reason it was in place to start with.

Super League clubs, like Wigan and Leeds, want to grow but may feel they are being held back.

Championship clubs are stuck between a rock and a hard place, left frustrated at the lack of coverage their competition gets, but almost reliant on the central funding hand-outs they get as a result of the Sky Sports deal.

It’s a risk, but without that restriction the Championship and League One clubs would then be free to negotiate their own rights deals or even stream games themselves.

Having said that, streaming games for free is surely not a sensible option for any club wanting to sell its rights either now or in the future, either independently or as part of a whole league deal.

So, rather than the World League idea I’ve mooted in the past, Super League effectively becomes that – for the bigger clubs (Wigan, Leeds, Hull, St Helens, Warrington etc), the expansion sides (Catalans, Toulouse, Toronto, New York) and anyone else who wishes to join the party, whether that be a franchise system or otherwise.

The opportunity would then be for the Championship and League One to signal a new era for “British Rugby League”, potentially developing a pyramid structure with the National Conference League – which itself has now become a major attraction thanks to the FreeSports TV deal spearheaded by RugbyAM’s Alex Simmons.

On the British rugby league note, it’s not Brexit-inspired, but given in rugby union the nations are all very independent of each other, with the English Premiership and then the Celtic nations playing in a joint competition, rugby league could take over the “British rugby” mantle and make it work, especially with the resurrection of the Great Britain team.

The existing rugby league structure would then be able to find its feet and grow organically, leaving Super League as the vehicle to drive the full-time professional game forward, free of its current responsibility to the rest of the sport.

Some fans of bigger clubs bemoan those ones of so-called smaller clubs for holding the game back by not allowing the expansion and growth plans to happen, so this to me would be a happy medium.

Allow the long-established clubs to continue in a system free of the expansion behemoths that have ploughed their way through League One in recent years.

– Super League
– Championship
– League One North
– League One South
– National Conference League

The Super League big boys could even enter “B” teams in to League One to act as their reserve side, enabling the likes of Coventry to still experience the “glamour” of facing a Wigan or a Leeds, something which is an attraction given the encouraging crowd the Bears had for a pre-season game.

A Wigan or Leeds second team would attract decent crowds over a weekend, especially if Super League continues to be played out on Thursdays and Fridays.

Some form of regionalisation needs to happen at League One level, especially after the weekend’s debacle involving Newcastle at West Wales, and also because players are being discouraged from playing semi-pro due to the sheer amount of travelling involved.

It’s sadly not my decision what happens – but whatever does happen, here’s hoping that it’s a solution for the long-term so that we can start concentrating on growing the game, its fan base and the player pool, rather than the ongoing structure debate.


https://www.loverugbyleague.com/pos...reak-away-let-british-rugby-league-find-feet/
 
Messages
11,933
IMG_1947.thumb.PNG.332351011a7d8fa412af3a6893093d2b.PNG
 

deal.with.it

Juniors
Messages
2,086
I’m all for 2 leagues of 10, but please don’t call it SL 1 and SL2.

Do the logical thing for once.

10 teams SL - £4M max salary cap (?) with minimum standards, 7k average attendance, decent ground, junior pathway, membership etc

10 team championship - £4M max salary cap, no other requirements

League 1 - ??

One up, one down P&R between all three
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
I’m all for 2 leagues of 10, but please don’t call it SL 1 and SL2.

Do the logical thing for once.

10 teams SL - £4M max salary cap (?) with minimum standards, 7k average attendance, decent ground, junior pathway, membership etc

10 team championship - £4M max salary cap, no other requirements

League 1 - ??

One up, one down P&R between all three
You literally cannot have those type of minimum standards and P&R
 

deal.with.it

Juniors
Messages
2,086
You literally cannot have those type of minimum standards and P&R

Why?

Gives teams a chance to gain entry into SL, but they have to be at a standard so we don’t see SL teams with 3k fans playing in shit stadiums attracting fish and chip sponsors.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Why?

Gives teams a chance to gain entry into SL, but they have to be at a standard so we don’t see SL teams with 3k fans playing in shit stadiums attracting fish and chip sponsors.
That is not P&R, P&R and licensing-style minimum standards are mutually exclusive. What you're saying is that we can have P&R but only a few selected clubs can be promoted, which is a solution that suits nobody. And by far the biggest problem with P&R in British RL is that we only have about 13-14 at most clubs that aren't like the type you mentioned, and dumping SL clubs into a Championship league full of those type of clubs only serves to brings them down to that standard. Look what happened to Bradford, Hull KR's chairman has said they would've ended up the same had they not been promoted at the first time of asking last year and Leigh will be in real trouble next year unless they get things together quickly. I'd say the vast majority of current SL clubs couldn't survive more than one season in the Championship without permanently dropping to that standard and potentially even lower. It just doesn't work.
 

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