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Superthread LXXIII: Honouring He Who Shall Not Be Named

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Skinner

Coach
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13,581
Jeez, it's a sad old st this bugger. Last post before 6.00pm yesterday. It's a shadow of its former self.
 

thorson1987

Coach
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16,907
Don't get why people rage over cyclists, they're generally fine. Active life styles should be encouraged

As long as they obey the road rules and not act like total f**kwits they are ok.

Also, pull up beside me, don't even think about using my car to balance.
 

whall15

Coach
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15,871
What do people think about the plebiscite?

Just on the gay marriage plebsicite someone made an interesting point yesterday which I hadn't thought of.

The government will be paying for ads on both sides, including ads from the Christian lobby talking about how evil the gays are. In a country where gay depression and suicide is a big issue, turning this into a public sideshow with government funded bigotry is pretty sick, people could die.
 

Drew-Sta

Moderator
Staff member
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24,743
I don't think the ads should be funded, but then I don't think there should be ads on it at all. Why let propaganda determine the outcome?
 

whall15

Coach
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15,871
I don't think there should be an outcome from a plebiscite whatsoever.

a) The legalisation of gay marriage falls completely within the legislative ability of parliament and that as such its just a waste of resources and time for it to go to a plebiscite.

b) It is a civil rights issue and the protection of the individual rights of a minority should not be subject to the tyranny of majority rule (even though in this instance, the vast majority are on the right side).

c) My personal preference is that marriage be completely deregulated and for the removal of any tax or other special benefits for married people. In saying that I would vote in favour as the lesser of two evils.
 

Drew-Sta

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Staff member
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24,743
I don't think there should be an outcome from a plebiscite whatsoever.

a) The legalisation of gay marriage falls completely within the legislative ability of parliament and that as such its just a waste of resources and time for it to go to a plebiscite.

Agree.

b) It is a civil rights issue and the protection of the individual rights of a minority should not be subject to the tyranny of majority rule (even though in this instance, the vast majority are on the right side).

I don't think the issue should be legislated on until the public is provided an opportunity to cast its vote. It at the very least gives an appreciation for what the public thinks before the decision is made. The public should be allowed to voice its approval / opposition.

c) My personal preference is that marriage be completely deregulated and for the removal of any tax or other special benefits for married people. In saying that I would vote in favour as the lesser of two evils.

If I'm understanding you correctly, this is the stupidest thing I've ever read. So if I die, my wife has no rights to my estate and is not provided special benefits as a widow? The special benefits include things like subsidising lower socio economic couples with rebates as part of welfare. If you remove special benefits etc, you'd get tax rorts through loopholes as one part of a couple who earns a low income could access benefits despite the other part of the couple being a high income earner.

Deregulating marriage suggest two people are housemates, rather than two people sharing their life together. It actually undermines the 'civil rights' issue as you're suggesting marriage isn't worth government recognition financially.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
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so dickhead here left his phone on top of the car.. well, phone AND wallet..

arrived where i needed to get to (thankfully not far) and realised what i had done.. started kicking myself thinking of all the photos etc of the kids i had on there that i wouldn't see again..

in a panic i flew back & retraced my steps, managed to find them both at the first big corner..

thankfully no-one had rifled through the wallet, all cards and money still there..

but the phone...

so it's fallen off the roof of a 4wd... and i saw it get run over by at least two cars as i was trying to get it (assume there would have been more as it was on a busy road and had been there for at least 5 mins..)


it still works... the screen is f**ked in a major way, but that can be replaced.. but apart from that, no scratches anywhere, and sill works just fine...

motorola brick, eat your heart out.. we have a new champion indestructable phone..
 

whall15

Coach
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15,871
Agree.



I don't think the issue should be legislated on until the public is provided an opportunity to cast its vote. It at the very least gives an appreciation for what the public thinks before the decision is made. The public should be allowed to voice its approval / opposition.

I don't believe it should be a matter of public opinion as the protection of individual rights should exceed what the majority think.


If I'm understanding you correctly, this is the stupidest thing I've ever read. So if I die, my wife has no rights to my estate and is not provided special benefits as a widow? The special benefits include things like subsidising lower socio economic couples with rebates as part of welfare. If you remove special benefits etc, you'd get tax rorts through loopholes as one part of a couple who earns a low income could access benefits despite the other part of the couple being a high income earner.

Deregulating marriage suggest two people are housemates, rather than two people sharing their life together. It actually undermines the 'civil rights' issue as you're suggesting marriage isn't worth government recognition financially.

You've raised some interesting points there, some of which I hadn't considered tbh.

On the estate portion I would allow people to designate beneficiaries (whether they be partners or otherwise) who would have rights to the estate. However, I would levy an estate tax above a certain threshold (eg. $1 million).

On your second point I do not believe that special rebates are necessary for couples. After all, due to economies of scale two people sharing a house is going to be more affordable per person than one person having to pay for a house as an example. This is already taken into account with benefits, for example single people get a higher disability pension per person than couples. http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/disability-support-pension

Your third point is probably the most troubling aspect of my plan. My preferred outcome would be to completely reform the welfare system and replace it with a guaranteed basic income meaning all individuals would receive a minimum standard of living guaranteed by the government, removing this problem. I do not believe there should be any special tax benefits for couples as per my economies of scale argument above. The counter to your argument is that there should be a stronger emphasis on individual rights and that the state should view individuals in relationships as separate entities. (It would also empower women by providing financial independence reducing the risks of abuse involved in some marriages)

I have some pretty big philosophical differences with your last point. Firstly I do not believe it is the role of the state to differentiate between housemates and couples and to enquire into the love lives of individuals, whether two people are sharing a life together should be irrelevant to the state (though of course not to the people in question). My argument from the civil rights perspective is that people should not be discriminated against from the perspective of sexual orientation, my proposal to deregulate marriage would remove such discrimination and as such it would not undermine that aspect of my argument as the marriage itself is not the issue.
 
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