Team of 2006, Best of the Best

[mickdo]

I've only seen Hayne versus our mob once, and the two tries he scored against the Warriors are tries you'd hope to never see again. Vatuvei blunder straight into his arms, try, Mannering blunder straight into his arms, try. He was in the right position at the right time, but I don't know how much of it was good management.

Good speed undoubtedly though. Michael Gordon looks a very good player.

There's a load of good young wingers coming through - Turner, Gordon, Hayne, Ah Van, Vatuvei - our two probably have a bit of work to go but they've both got a load of potential.

That was the only game where he was really gifted tries. To his credit though, he absolutely pounced on them where other wingers might not have got over the line so easily. He has scored some other intercept tries, but they have all been more active on his part rather than being put in his hands. To see his skill level you only had to look at his pick up of a 15m pass at his feet for the try he scored against Manly (I think), where he didn't even break stride.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

They actually attack where Campbell is defending. Gordon and Galea have to pick up the slack for what Campbell lacks in defence.

And that's meant to mean that he's better than Hayne in defence?

Because Hayne doesn't have spastic defenders inside him?

Didn't you post stats where Gordon made 4 tackles in a match and missed 4 takcles in that same match?

Likewise with Gordon :crazy:

You seem to think that denigrating Hayne will make Gordon look better, it won't. Hayne is arguable the best winger in the comp at the moment.

I don't think many people would argue that Gordon is in front of him.

Nice use of the emoticon, do you follow Union?

Oh no. He isn't a standout to you.:roll: And Hayne is.

Exactly.

What part of that are you struggling with?

I'll bet I've seen more Pennies matches this year than you've seen Eels matches this year.

Hayne is a stand-out to everyone because of the media and the fact he found the tryline a lot in a very short time. He gets overrated because of this. In the same amount of time, Gordon has received 9 tries (only 4 less then Hayne), made more linebreaks and probably 3 or 4 times the amount of defending that Hayne has. He has done this in a team which is losing.

We've discssued the defending, again, it's not Hayne's fault that your defence on that side is rubbish.

Post the line-break, hit-up and metres gained stats. You went to the trouble to post stats that obviously favoured your argument.

Post them all, then argue.

Don't do it half-arsed.

No i'm not related to him, nor am i saying he is the greatest winger or even one of them. God... i'm simply stating that the wonder boy Jarryd Hayne is being way overrated. And that other rookies are doing just as many if not more spectacular things that go unnoticed.

You're simply biased.

Actually, i've watched most of them. Parramatta games are amongst the best to watch these days. They are playing some very good football.

Do you watch them so that you can pick faults in Hayne to further your argument?

I'll bet you do this weekend....

Thinking that Gordon is underrated has nothing to do with Club bias. His tries speak for themselves. His linebreaks speak for themselves. As does his extremely solid defence. He is the complete package. He has on numerous occassions made linebreaks that resulted in tries to Wesser.

You're entitled to be excited about a player if you think he's something special. But you did it by trying to cut down a bloke who is being chosen regularly in this thread in the team of the year.

Your bias is palpable.

I fail to see how i can build a guy up more then he deserves by showing the areas he is better then the guy everyone else is building up, and the areas where he is on par. Anyone who seen him play against the Raiders or the Warriors at home would see what he is really capable of... and it wasn't through receiving a good ball. It was tackles that he busted himself or breaks that he found and kicks that he setup.

Two matches?

sh*t, I can point to two matches where Daniel Fitzhenry had a blinder.

Uhhh, as has Gordon. The only difference is he is in a team that is playing like sh*t. He immediately took place on our wing after being called up and has been their fulltime. He hasn't played a single bad game for us since either. I'd like to see how many wingers or centres could take the same defensive load this kid has and still be a force to be reckoned with in attack. Next year he will only improve in attack. He will have a new centre that will surely feed him more ball then Galea does, with any luck Michael Jennings... and he won't be having to defend for Campbell as well.

Has Hayne had a bad game for Parramatta?

I can't recall one.

Meh. I see Hayne as one of the luckiest players in the NRL. He has a lot of talent, and a lot of luck aswell. Against the Warriors, he bagged 2 tries early on from their mistakes. Against the Knights.... he was friggen awesome, i think i recall an intercept try also which was very impressive.

You make your own luck.

It's why Luke Covell doesn't score 20 tries in a season and why Hayne will and maybe even Gordon will.

Gordon is a talented player but he's behind Hayne at the moment. And in three weeks he'll be well behind while he's watching the semis from home.

Now i can live with your opinion being that Hayne is the better player. Fair enough. But there is no way in hell he is one of the 2 best wingers in the NRL. The reason i was comparing him to Gordon was Gordon is another rookie that has done a lot since coming up... and things which are just as important as what Hayne has done. And i couldn't put either player in a best of the best team ahead of guys like Tate, Grothe, King, Tahu etc. And that has nothing to do with bias. As i don't think Panthers have had any real good wingers at all. Gordon is the best in a long while, and Lewis could be a good winger if we left him their. But we're playing him as a centre where i think he is sh*t.

I don't particularly care who, what or where your mob are doing. What I do know is that Hayne is a better player at the moment than Gordon and that seems to be the consensus here.

My team had nothing to do with bias. I also have no doubt in my mind that the wingers i picked would get the better of Hayne and Merritt before the opposite would happen. Grothe and Tate would be my first 2 picks... Grothe/Gasnier and Tate/Hodges is just a mouth watering combination for each wing. Extremely solid in both attack and defence. Extremely fast. Almost flawless.

I wasn't talking about your team initially, just your reasoning for dumping on Hayne.

You didn't watch Eric Jr. on the weekend?

 

[paulb88]

Your saying Hayne is being hyped up by the media, and he is over-rated. But its warranted. He's consistently been good. Even though hes only played like a dozen games, he's been consistent and strong in every game. He's continued scoring tries, which proves they arent fluke or luck. and some of the defensive plays hes come up with to save tries and games are phenomenal. Bias: yes, but its justified

 

[Iafeta]

On Hayne, I'll wait until seasons 2 and 3 before praising him too much. Not taking anything away from the kid, but hang, at one stage in 2003 I think it was Matt Peterson couldn't stop scoring tries down that wing. At one stage not long ago Brett Firman was the next big thing.

Form is temporary, class is permanent, if he keeps it up for 2-3 seasons then yes he's class.

 

[mxlegend99]

And that's meant to mean that he's better than Hayne in defence?

Because Hayne doesn't have spastic defenders inside him?

Didn't you post stats where Gordon made 4 tackles in a match and missed 4 takcles in that same match?

Yes i did post that stat. I didn't pick and choose which games to put up. I posted every game since Hayne has been playing... so what if he had a game where he missed as many as he made... Hayne has done that also. My point is he has a huge defensive workload. I could go and post the metres gained and amount of runs stats... Hayne does kill it on both. Although they go hand in hand with each other (more runs = more metres). But i was never trying to say Gordon is a better all around player. Just that he rivals him in most areas in a worse team.

You seem to think that denigrating Hayne will make Gordon look better, it won't. Hayne is arguable the best winger in the comp at the moment.

Wrong. I'm not trying to make Gordon look better then Hayne. I took another rookie winger that has been successful in first grade and used him as a reference to Hayne not being the best winger which most people seem to think he is. I'm just trying to show there's more then just scoring tries. I don't think Gordon is the best winger either. Both are too young and we've seen a lot of young fellas with promising careers that went nowhere. On the other hand, either could end up like Inglis. A really solid rookie year, and a great full first season. Hayne is looking like he could be next years Greg Inglis.

I don't think many people would argue that Gordon is in front of him.

Nice use of the emoticon, do you follow Union?

Most people have no idea who Gordon is. Those that do have probably seen him play very few games. He's in a team that has lost most of their games and he hasn't had a game where he bagged 4 tries in it.

We've discssued the defending, again, it's not Hayne's fault that your defence on that side is rubbish.

Post the line-break, hit-up and metres gained stats. You went to the trouble to post stats that obviously favoured your argument.

I did post the linebreaks stat... and i said that Hayne had more metres gained. I also said that Hayne gets far more ball then Gordon does and Gordon rarely sees the ball. Yet when he does, he is always making something of it.

It's a bit hard to dominate on metres gained or hit-ups when you're part of a team that relies on forwards for both of them. The only back that really does a lot of either for us is Wesser. Other then that our attack is straight forward, pass to a forward... take the tackle. Repeat. Last tackle... we kick and very poorly.

Hayne probably averages over double the metres gained, but also receives twice as much ball. He has a team that is in the top 4 for attack and Panthers are outside the top 8. Yet Gordon is still making the linebreaks, scoring the tries and often racking up a fair few metres of what little ball he gets.

I haven't argued that Gordon gains more metres. Nor bothered posting the stats because it would take a long time and it's just easier to say that he get probably close to double the metres gained.

I couldn't find a stat for hit-ups... the closest would be how many runs each player has. Hayne sees far more ball then Gordon does. But Panthers don't use their wingers very often. That would involve team work.

Do you watch them so that you can pick faults in Hayne to further your argument?

I'll bet you do this weekend....

No. I watch the games because i enjoy watching the Eels play. They have a really solid attacking side. They provide more entertainment then watching the Panthers play infact. Unless we're up against another hard hitting side, i find our attack is very boring. I'm not looking forward to Panthers vs Knights.... but i can't wait to see the Eels vs Broncos match. Panthers vs Bulldogs should be a good one though, as Panthers just seem to run it straight at the forwards and rely on size to get through. You watch a lot of Panthers games and are probably more then aware of our lack of creativity. If it were not for Campbell and Wesser... our wingers and centres would probably never get a chance.

You make your own luck.

It's why Luke Covell doesn't score 20 tries in a season and why Hayne will and maybe even Gordon will.

Gordon is a talented player but he's behind Hayne at the moment. And in three weeks he'll be well behind while he's watching the semis from home.

His watching the semis has nothing to do with his talent. I feel sorry for a number of our players, namely Luke Priddis. They could find good homes and be winning games. Instead... they stick by our team... who has a lot of great players but still keep playing sh*t... due to no team work. We're boring to watch because we lack it. Our guys are underachieving because all our brilliant efforts in the end were solo efforts - we make an excellent linebreak with no one there to back the player u[. You rarely see us play as a team. Michael Gordon would be boasting sh*tloads of metres gained for the Eels if he played there. He would have scored more tries and receive a lot more ball also.

Eels are a better team. Me liking Gordon has nothing to do with bias. I can admit my team rarely plays like one. I critiscize my team after each loss and even after each win (ie. the Sharks game where we played 21mins through to 63 mins with no idea on what defence or catching a ball was).

I don't particularly care who, what or where your mob are doing. What I do know is that Hayne is a better player at the moment than Gordon and that seems to be the consensus here.

He's a great player on a better team. He has more opportunities to prove himself. I know why people think he is better. But at the same time... a guy who runs it less then Hayne has more linebreaks. Not too far behind on the tries scored in a team that is losing more then winning. Having a better team behind you will help you look better. Our only real standout while we play crap is Rhys Wesser. No matter how badly we suck, he can make himself look great.

I wasn't talking about your team initially, just your reasoning for dumping on Hayne.

You didn't watch Eric Jr. on the weekend?

I'm not trying to make Gordon out to be the best winger or close to it. I just think that Gordon excels in a few areas that Hayne doesn't. And more to the point, i think both are promising players for the future... but neither deserve the title of best of the best today.

If it looks like bias i'm sorry. I just think Hayne has a better team around him which helps him. Haybe has done some great stuff this year and i really do think he will follow in the footsteps of Greg Inglis. Building a huge name for himself his partial rookie year, then being the greatest sensation the following year. I'd like too see Hayne at fullback so he can do a bit more of his own work... wingers very rarely get opportunities to do solo efforts. I think Gordon has had a lot of them due to the fact we don't play as a team.

I love my team. But i have no trouble admitting any of our many flaws.

 

[mxlegend99]

On Hayne, I'll wait until seasons 2 and 3 before praising him too much. Not taking anything away from the kid, but hang, at one stage in 2003 I think it was Matt Peterson couldn't stop scoring tries down that wing. At one stage not long ago Brett Firman was the next big thing.

Form is temporary, class is permanent, if he keeps it up for 2-3 seasons then yes he's class.

Exactly. If he can do what Inglis did and back-up his rookie season with an even better effort. He's a fair dinkum champ. I have a feeling he will do that next year. But so far this year... i think he has been blessed with luck and stepping up in a great team. All the fellas at Parra have stepped it up. Even amongst injuries, the replacements are making you guys look like you're 100% each week. Jason Taylor is a bloody champ. Although you guys had the talent all along.

 

[Nutzcraw]

Merritt MUST be in the side. To score 21 tries in a season for any team, let alone one that has won only 3 games, is an amazing effort.

He's scored some great tries too.. the one vs Manly when he caught a bomb on his own goal line and proceeded to run 100m, standing up Brett Stewart on the way... the one vs the Roosters at Aussie where he ran down the wing about 30m, kicked ahead about 30-40m, ran past the fullback and touched down..

His defence has improved steadily this year too (ask Mark O'Halloran). Basically is a MUST for the side. Anyone who thinks he's lucky or average clearly haven't watched many Souths games.

My side would be:

1. Greg Inglis
2. Nathan Merritt
3. Mark Gasnier
4. Justin Hodges
5. Jarryd Hayne
6. Darren Lockyer
7. Cooper Cronk
8. Steve Price
9. Cameron Smith
10. Roy Asotasi
11. Nathan Hindmarsh
12. Ryan Hoffman
13. Ben Kennedy

14. Ben Hornby
15. Travis Burns
16. Willie Mason
17. Brett White

Mate, if you think Merritt out ran him.. you are pulling your dick!!

Stewart had him in no time and then made a sh*thouse attempt at tackle... i dare say if he tried it again he would be bundled into touch

 

[mxlegend99]

Stewart is fast... but at times a bit suspect in defence. He's still young though, and he's extremely small in build. If he could bulk up and become a bit more stocky... he could really carve up in both attack and defence.

 

[Nutzcraw]

1. Clinton Schifcofske
2. Nathan Merritt
3. Mark Gasnier
4. Adam Mogg
5. Brian Carney
6. Preston Campbell
7. Cooper Cronk
8. Petero Civinoceva
9. Cameron Smith
10. Roy Asotasi
11. Nathan Hindmarsh
12. Willie Mason
13. Reni Maitua

14. Alan Tongue
15. Sonny-Bill Williams
16. Nathan Cayless
17. Steve Price

Reni Matuia over Ben Kennedy :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

Walt - Bulldogs fan???

 

[Sugar]

Mate, if you think Merritt out ran him.. you are pulling your dick!!

Stewart had him in no time and then made a sh*thouse attempt at tackle... i dare say if he tried it again he would be bundled into touch

so your saying stewart is a sh*thouse defender

 

[Nutzcraw]

I'm going to pick two teams. Neither is supposed to be better than the other. Why? I don't know.

1. Clinton Schifcofske (Raiders)
2. Hazem El Masri (Bulldogs)
3. Justin Hodges (Broncos)
4. Greg Inglis (Storm)
5. Nathan Merritt (Rabbitohs)
6. Darren Lockyer (Broncos)
7. Matt Orford (Sea Eagles)
8. Steve Price (Warriors)
9. Dean Young (Dragons)
10. Mark O'Meley (Bulldogs)
11. Steve Simpson (Knights)
12. Ryan Hoffman (Storm)
13. Alan Tongue (Raiders)

14. Nathan Cayless (Eels)
15. Joel Clinton (Panthers)
16. Sam Thaiday (Broncos)
17. Lance Thompson (Sharks)

vs

1. Brett Stewart (Sea Eagles)
2. Brian Carney (Knights)
3. Adam Mogg (Raiders)
4. Brent Tate (Broncos)
5. Jake Webster (Storm)
6. Preston Campbell (Panthers)
7. Scott Prince (Tigers)
8. Roy Asotasi (Bulldogs)
9. Luke Priddis (Panthers)
10. Brent Kite (Sea Eagles)
11. Willie Mason (Bulldogs)
12. Anthony Tupou (Roosters)
13. Ben Kennedy (Sea Eagles)

14. Steve Menzies (Sea Eagles)
15. Sonny-Bill Williams (Bulldogs)
16. Thom Learoyd-Lahrs (Raiders)
17. Paul Gallen (Sharks)

And the all-important question: Who would win?

The one you decide to put johns in!

 

[Nutzcraw]

so your saying stewart is a sh*thouse defender

:roll: :roll:

I said he made a sh*thouse attempt at tackle

 

[Nutzcraw]

From what i've seen... Pantherballboy is the most on the money IMO

Mine:
1. Clinton Shifcofske
2. Brent Tate
3. Mark Gasnier
4. Justin Hodges
5. Hasem El Masri
6. Darren lockyer
7. Andrew Johns
8. Steve Price
9. Cameron Smith
10. Petero Civoniceva
11. Nathan Hindmarsh
12. Willie Mason
13. Ben kennedy

14. Shane Webke
15. Brent Kite
16. Paul Gallen
17. Greg Inglis

 

[mickdo]

On Hayne, I'll wait until seasons 2 and 3 before praising him too much. Not taking anything away from the kid, but hang, at one stage in 2003 I think it was Matt Peterson couldn't stop scoring tries down that wing. At one stage not long ago Brett Firman was the next big thing.

Form is temporary, class is permanent, if he keeps it up for 2-3 seasons then yes he's class.

No argument from me, but don't forget this thread is for the best of 2006 ;-)

 

[yobbo84]

Mate, if you think Merritt out ran him.. you are pulling your dick!!

Stewart had him in no time and then made a sh*thouse attempt at tackle... i dare say if he tried it again he would be bundled into touch

Where did I say he out-ran him? He didn't - he stood him up, as I said. A bit of a stop, goose-step and accelerate and Stewart had no idea!

 

[Iafeta]

Billy Slater pulled that one on Brent Webb a couple of years ago and everyone said Webby was the worst fullback in the comp.

Of course, we all know (or more to the point, those .3% that don't really on Fatty, Chief and Matty for their info and game reviews and player ratings from Rabs "Matthew Chalk" or "Whats his name there, that one" Warren) that he's certainly not the worst fullback in the comp and will be a sad loss for the Warriors.

 

[sooperdooper]

mog over hayne? hahaah

 

[Noa]

Not much love much for Stevie T. Take away his first 3-4 games and he's been the stand-out winger for mine.

 

[dio]

very tough thread

1. Brett Stewart
2. Nathan Merritt
3. Adam Mogg
4. Justin Hodges
5. Greg Inglis
6. Jeremy Smith (is one of the main reasons why eels have turned their season around)
7. Cooper Cronk
8. Roy Asotasi
9. Cameron Smith
10. Petero Civoniceva
11. Nathan Hindmarsh
12. Ryan Hoffman
13. Ben Kennedy

14. Willie Mason
15. Greg Inglis
16. Dallas Johnson
17. Reni Maitua
------------------------------------
imo, gasnier has been fairly ordinary for the dragons this year compared to his usual, up until last week, so i dont think a couple of solid games is good enough for gasnier to be there
-----------------------------------
Hayne, has only played a handful of games... has been sheer brilliant, but merritt has been good all year, rather than 10ish games...and merritt taking brett stewart(who is a reknowned try scorer to the limit is just a great feat)

Merritt isnt just a try-scorer, as yobbo mentioned before, he has scored a couple of the best individual tries you have seen this year

cronk for smith and hayne for merrit and your getting close imo gaz=overated

 

[Nutzcraw]

Where did I say he out-ran him? He didn't - he stood him up, as I said. A bit of a stop, goose-step and accelerate and Stewart had no idea!

My point was stewart matched him with pace and had every idea on what he was doing!

He just made a sh*thouse tackle... he hit him with his shoulder still (fell off after making contact) so i don't see where he "bamboozled" him??

He simply made a poor attempt at tackle.. all merritt did was slow down a bit then speed up on the same line... 9 times out of 10 he would have been taken out... but stewart made a sh*thouse attempt at tackle.

All i'm trying to say is your giving merritt alot more credit for THAT try than he probably deserves.. he took a good catch.. had NO ONE in front of him.. stewart caught him and made a crap tackle.. prolly had as much to do with the rain as it did the crappy attempt.. that's all i'm saying