Everlovin' Antichrist said:
No, you didn't post metres gained and hit-ups.
They are important stats when comparing Wingers.
If you're not posting them because Hayne flogs him, just admit it. The stats are on NRL.com.
Here, I'll do it for you.
Round 12.
Gordon 5 hit-ups, 55 metres.
Hayne 7 hit-ups, 100 metres.
Round 13.
Gordon 7/66.
Hayne 14/119.
Round 14.
Gordon 6/60.
Hayne 14/97.
Round 15.
Hayne 12/148.
Round 16.
Gordon 7/59.
Round 17.
Gordon 4/51.
Hayne 8/67.
Round 18.
Gordon 10/82.
Hayne 17/163.
Round 19.
Gordon 10/104.
Hayne 13/175.
Round 20.
Gordon 4/38.
Hayne 15/234.
Round 21.
Gordon 10/142.
Hayne 16/188.
Round 22.
Gordon 7/96.
Hayne 8/76.
Round 23.
Gordon 8/71.
Hayne 18/140.
Round 24.
Gordon 8/46.
Hayne 13/115.
You do the math.
Ok, i did the math and in nearly every game Jarryd Hayne has received twice as much ball as Gordon. I broke it down to how many metres were gained for each run and it was fairly 50/50 on most occassions, with both players dominating the other on a few occassions. Unfortunately i lost that post while doing it trying to open a new window. I can redo it later if you want me to do the maths for you.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
I've seen him play and as I said before, he looks better than competent. I don't recall Penrith carving up on his wing, I remember Parramatta carving up on Hayne's wing, more than a few times.
Look at the post you made. Look at how many times Gordon has touched the ball as opposed to Jarryd Hayne. Jarryd Hayne has had more then twice as many touches of the ball and yet Michael Gordon has still made more linebreaks and has only received 4 less tries. When Gordon gets the ball he carves up. Your own metres gained and hit-up stats prove that point.
As i already said. Panthers don't play the ball to their wingers very often. We do the same predictable attack with out forwards. Even with this... Gordon when he touches the ball more often than not is doing something special. He'd have to be to have more linebreaks in the same amount of time then a player who has on average twice as much ball each game.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
The week he ran 234 metres was against my side. Without a line break.
Phenomenal.
He had 15 touches of the ball and didn't make 1 linebreak. 234 metres is sensational no doubt. But it was against the Tigers who aren't really known for their awesome defence... and you would think with 15 runs he could sniff out 1 linebreak.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
You said it, he rarely sees the ball.
The best Wingers go looking for it.
The best wingers usually have decent centres inside them.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
If Hayne was on Gordon's wing, there would be less pressure on Rhys in attack.
If Hayne was on Gordons wing, we would concede far more tries. You can't say how much more or less pressure Hayne would take off Wesser. He has a good centre and a good attacking team atm. Gordon makes more linebreaks with less ball, and sets up tries for Wesser. Put Hayne outside Galea and see how great he goes. Nothing against Galea, he's a great defender. But he isn't really a playmaker nor does he provide opportunities for his winger.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
I think you already knew that he doesn't compare stat-wise.
His metres are nowhere near Hayne's.
He doesn't compare on one stat. And if you average that stat out to each run, he is just as good as Hayne is. And he still has more linebreaks with less runs. If he doesn't compare, how can he have 9 tries and more linebreaks when he gets the ball about half as often as Hayne does? On a losing team. :crazy:
If you compare metres gained directly, more often then not he won't compare. But if you compare how many metres he gets with each run... look at that, he is on pare or often infront. :roll:
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
You haven't argued it because you can't.
It took me 5 minutes.
No i hadn't done it because it's immediately obvious that anyone who receives the ball 20 times is going to have more metres gained then someone has receives it 10 times. The fact he has gotten half as much ball and still is right near him with tries scored and ahead of him on linebreaks speaks volumes for his talent.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
Hit-ups are there.
Panthers don't use their wingers very often, and that, again is Hayne's fault?
I didn't say it was Haynes fault. I'm simply stating that given his fewer opportunities it's going to be hard for him to gain more metres then Hayne. Didn't stop him bagging 9 tries and 13 linebreaks though.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
Is John Lang stopping your wingers from looking for the ball?
I really don't know what John Lang is doing. He continually defends Campbell on the Wing outside Gordon and Galea increasing their workload in defence even though it just means we concede more tries.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
I remember Rhys Wesser early on, I wondered why the bloke was in first grade, he was bloody awful.
When Hayne played in round 11, against your mob, Parramatta weren't even considered a chance at the semis.
That's true. Panthers were barely in a better position. We'd been flogged back to back by Storm, Sharks and Broncos. Lost our half-back and only won a game against the Souths in recent times.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
Some of your own supporters have nominated Hayne in this thread, as have other unbiased supporters.
If I were you I'd be wondering why...
I know why people nominate him. He's a successful player on a winning team. But you put Gordon on that same team and i guarantee he would have even more linebreaks AND tries then he has had a Panthers. Guarantee it. He would have gained more metres and he would see more ball also.
Everlovin' Antichrist said:
But you're also allowed to be confronted if you, in some people's opinion, unfairly criticise a player like Hayne.
I'm not critiscizing Hayne. I compare him to another rookie winger.
Answer this question, do you think Michael Gordon would have made more linebreaks and more tries if he was playing for the Eels?
If so, then how can you say he is not even close to Hayne? He already has made more linebreaks at a worse team. With less touches of the ball etc. He does this in a team with no team work that relies all on our forwards.
You're comparing apples to oranges. I compared the stats that speak for themselves. A linebreak is a linebreak. A tackle is a tackle. When you get to metres gained, that relies directly on how many touches of the ball you get. I guess to an extent, linebreaks do also.
edit
I've said what i wanted to say. If you disagree that Gordon would make get more tries and make more linebreaks for the Eels then he does with the Panthers, then fair enough.
But i can't see how he wouldn't do a better job in a team that has better centres and gives their wingers more opportunities.
