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Thaidays Tackle On Newton???

~bedsy~

First Grade
Messages
5,988
antonius said:
Exactly, and that's the pont, Thaiday lifted and cartwheeled Newton just as Buderus did to Robertson, they landed differently yes, but other than that they were almost the same, and as for driving, Thaiday did not let him go. Newton hit the ground every bit as hard as Robertson did.
I think what saved Newton was that Carrol(sp?) I think was underneath him when he landed on his neck.
It could have been as bad as Buderus' but it wasn't. I still believe he should get 2-3 weeks for it.
 

Dazzat

First Grade
Messages
5,919
Thaiday wasn't even in contact with Newton when Newton hit the ground. He had let go ... and that is the key. The Broncos do a lot of training where they learn to let go if a player who is past the horizontal.

On the other hand, Buderus never let go of Robertson throughout the tackle and, in fact, followed him to the ground ... driving it's called. Big difference. There should be no suspension for Thaiday.
 

Ben

Bench
Messages
2,551
The reason Buderus didn't let go of Robertson was that he had his arm wrapped around Buderus's neck. Wherever Robertson was going to land, Buderus would be coming down with him.

I'm not really sure if Thaiday will get suspended. It basically determines if the judiciary are looking at dangerous tackles in the matter of what position the player is put in or if any damage was caused, ie. landing on your neck.

If the judiciary were adamant on eradicating the spear tackles out of the game, they should be suspending players on the basis of putting a player in a dangerous position. No use lifting a player up past the horizontal and dropping him and he still lands on his head. If the NRL wanted spear tackles out of the game, Thaiday should be suspended.
 

Dazzat

First Grade
Messages
5,919
I've heard that the whole 'driving' thing is a big consideration by the judiciary. They acknowledge that in some tackles players for reasons beyond the control of the tackler go past the horizontal (and sometimes it is in the control of the tackler, for example when they put their hand between the player's legs). But from that point, it is in the tackler's control what happens. They can let go, easy a player down, or keep 'driving'.

When you're dealing with something that happens in a split second, it's a pretty tough call to differentiate, but I believe that's what they judiciary are looking for.
 

Gene Krupa

Referee
Messages
20,216
Dazzat said:
I've heard that the whole 'driving' thing is a big consideration by the judiciary. They acknowledge that in some tackles players for reasons beyond the control of the tackler go past the horizontal (and sometimes it is in the control of the tackler, for example when they put their hand between the player's legs). But from that point, it is in the tackler's control what happens. They can let go, easy a player down, or keep 'driving'.

When you're dealing with something that happens in a split second, it's a pretty tough call to differentiate, but I believe that's what they judiciary are looking for.

Bullsh!t! Danny didn't drive and being dropped is worse than a player hanging on since you have NO control at all if you've already got them passed the verticle.

Give yourself a triple and follow that with a double!
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
Gene Krupa said:
Bullsh!t! Danny didn't drive and being dropped is worse than a player hanging on since you have NO control at all if you've already got them passed the verticle.
Give yourself a triple and follow that with a double!

Dropping is worse?
Go and watch a replay of Luke McDougal on Minichiello in 2005.
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
It was definitely not as bad as Buderus' effort, however Thaiday should get about 2-3 weeks. I have no idea of his past record.

Also...didn't two Storm players dump Quinn on his head earlier in the year and get nothing? (or did they cop something - I forget)
 

IanG

Coach
Messages
17,807
Well if they want to retain any form of integity then the Jokedicery will have to come down on him as well. If Thaiday gets off it'll be further reason for the system to be scrapped and for those on it to resign.
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
If he even gets a week for a player "landing on his back" it will show how ludicrous the game is.
 

~bedsy~

First Grade
Messages
5,988
daveserc said:
Also...didn't two Storm players dump Quinn on his head earlier in the year and get nothing? (or did they cop something - I forget)
I think from memeory they got off.
 

MSKnight

Juniors
Messages
847
If that Tackle gets off, then the Judiciary and Referees have the Premiers declared already. I was at the Game and Clint was like putting his Hands up and bedsy was shaking his Head with Shock Basically.
 

strewth_mate

Bench
Messages
2,989
Thaiday wasn't even in contact with Newton when Newton hit the ground. He had let go ... and that is the key. The Broncos do a lot of training where they learn to let go if a player who is past the horizontal.

On the other hand, Buderus never let go of Robertson throughout the tackle and, in fact, followed him to the ground ... driving it's called. Big difference. There should be no suspension for Thaiday.

I haven't gone to lengths to defend Buderus' tackle but I would hesitate to say he drove him into the ground. Had his hands around Robertson's legs and he was continuing to rotate him as momentum continued forwards, but it doesn't look much to me like he was forcing him headfirst into the ground.

Usually I thought they penalised something that looked dangerous, typically past the horizontal, the ref usually says that even though it turned out alright, you can't lift that way and awards the penalty.

Now, Thaiday did turn him past horizontal, but took his hands off because he knew he was doing the wrong thing, and Newton dropped to the ground. Therefore I would assume there was no malice in the tackle, which may be where the training comes in and it's probably good. However, that is not the point. If the tackle looked dangerous, it doesn't matter if there is malice, it is normally penalised. Malice comes into it for the judiciary.

If Buderus had let go of Robertson, he still would have landed awkwardly, but not dangerously on his upper back. It's not a matter of whether he lets go though, the damage was done in the actual tackle, as with Thaiday's, and Buderus' was rather worse. Otherwise you could almost rationalise throwing a player as long as you let go of him. Dangerous tackle, and he knew it, should have been penalised, might face a bit of strife at the judiciary, but I hope this isn't compared to Buderus' any more because not everything is a square up.
 

lockyrulz

Juniors
Messages
2,394
If you suspended every player who lifted in a tackle we wouldnt have a grand final because there would be no one to play in it.

Thaiday will not face suspension because he did not lift between the legs, and when the player looked to be heading into a dangerous position, he let him go. Had he not let go in that particualr instance, it is likely he would have landed in a dangerous fashion. As it was, he landed on his back.

The ref had no problem with it, neither did the touchies or the video ref.

And if you want to look at a dangerous tackle, how about the one attacking the legs of Lockyer when he kicked the ball?

Like Thaidays, it was borderline, and therefore should be let go. Just like Clarke didnt send off Gidley for 10 minutes. Techinally he should have, but he judged the situation on its merits and made the right call.

Buderus is a great player, and an unlucky one. But he did a god awful tackle and deserved his susopension, deal with it.
 

Dazzat

First Grade
Messages
5,919
There are a number of rules in league where 'intention' comes into the equation. For example, 'intentional' forward pass, or with a double movement sometimes.

Now unless the referees have some sort of 'nuclear powered intention revealing x-ray transducer' intention is all guess work.

Obviously Buderus did NOT intend to cripple Robertson for life by tipping him on his head. And Thaiday did NOT intend to render Newton a cripple. So I can't say how one tackle could be with 'malice' while the other is not (unless you've invented that aforementioned nuclear device). It all comes down to mechanics.
 

OurSaviour

Juniors
Messages
7
If Buderus had let go of Robertson, he still would have landed awkwardly, but not dangerously on his upper back.but I hope this isn't compared to Buderus' any more because not everything is a square up.[/quote]

Well said. I mean it was a tough forwards tackle and as you said Thaiday knew it was getting awkward so immediately backed away from completing the tackle. Whereas Danny continued to lift Robertsons and also drive down - when you drive into a tackle you dont project them upwards the intention is to bury them and if Robertson had a pointier head Danny would have succeeded. Five weeks for that tackle is on the mark with consistency. BUT I would have expected the fact Danny had made thousands of NRL tackles and it was his first "spear" or any misconduct the five weeks should have been discounted to 2 or 3 weeks.

Its wont bring back the embarassment of a 44 point shallacking by getting satisfaction from Thaiday being suspended for a good tackle. Lets get over it guys. The worst part of all this now is Danny missing the first 5 rounds of 2007. If we only win 17% of games without Danny - then 2007 may be a long season too.
 

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