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Thanks for the Orgasm

[furrycat]

Coach
Messages
18,827
Jatz Crackers said:
So your whole arguement is that if he is charged it must b right because the police and DPP wouldnt make the chage unless they would be able to prove it :lol:

I dont need to sidestep that rubbish which is 100% supposition.

Your mind and facts are like a greasy egg and a teflon frypan. :p

Making up lies again are we? Well when you can find a post where I say
1. He is guilty.
2. Because he has been charged, he must have committed the crime
... then I'll eat my hat.

You've got no idea about the law then do you? DPP looks at the case and makes a judgement as to whether or not they believe the case can be proven beyond any reasonable doubt (the standard of proof needed). I am not saying a rape occurred, but I am saying that the police are not dumb enough to charge someone with sexual assault if they cannot prove that intercourse actually took place.

Read my post again moron- You said "we dont even know if they had sex"- I said for him to be charged, it is safe to assume sex of an undetermined nature can be proven... Did I say it was without consent? Jesus christ you really should read before you blow your load.

All you do is twist posts to suit yourself :lol:
 

[furrycat]

Coach
Messages
18,827
Post 147
“In evidence today, the woman said she had been drinking heavily and partying with friends at a Kings Cross nightclub in the early hours of September 4 when she noticed a number of football players were in the club”

Comment : So the woman knew she was associating with persons with a public profile. She says she had been drinking heavily
Relevance? The woman has recognised the players- no crime here. She was drinking heavily- no crime here either. All I can see is you're trying to infer she saw an opportunity to make a buck. Pretty weak argument. It proves that she is able to identify who the players were, and hence was able to establish the identity of who her alleged attacker was. You don't know the details of the case and neither do I- so stop pretending you're the jury on a trial by media.

“she remembered little of the evening, apart from dancing and drinking and kissing someone at the bar”

“had little recollection of the hours from about 3am until she woke up in an apartment just after 8am”

Comment : No allegation of impropriety at this stage. Consentual kissing of person unnamed is noted.
Don't understand what you're trying to prove here. Consentual kissing has absolutely no bearing on whether or not consent was given for sexual intercourse, so again a weak argument here by you.

“The court also heard the woman made 21 calls on her mobile phone, and caught several cabs, during the hours she said she could not remember”

"she had no recollection of how she came to be in the apartment”

Comment : A complete lack of background evidence regarding the prior nights events after leaving the club.
Relevance again? She had been drinking heavily and was having trouble remembering what had happened that night exactly. Theres nothing to confirm nor deny if she had been drugged or if she had been under the influence of any other substance, but again, I can't see what you're trying to prove here again. She got drunk and doesn't know how she ended up somewhere... does that make her a liar? (If you're inferring she was too drunk to remember she consented, refer to the new laws regarding an intoxicated person giving consent)

“The 26-year-old said she became distressed after she went to the bathroom to discover her vagina was "red and sore'', and her black shorts were inside-out.

"I remember waking up on September 4 at about 8am ... I was on a lounge with a brown doona cover over me ... I was quite dazy,'' the woman said today.

"I've gotten up from my chair and gone into the bathroom and I realised that my pants were inside-out. "I didn't know what had happened to me," she said."

Comment : So it is at this point that the woman contends there is something wrong but doesn’t know what happened. How does anyone know wether she herself or someone else put her undies/shorts on in reverse ?
If someone else put her pants on in reverse, its still a form of sexual assault... but thats ap retty weak argument by you again :lol: How do you explain the injuries around her genitals? Did she inflict those on herself too? You have made a lot of hearsay assumptions.

"In fear, I was so scared, I pushed record on my mobile phone as I was walking out of the bathroom.''

“The court then heard details of the phone recording, in which an unidentified man is heard to say "thanks for the orgasm''.

"You're gonna be sorry, your mate will be sorry'' the woman says in the recording"

Comment : Of what is she scared if she could not recall anything about the events from 3-00am till this point ? Theres no clear evidence of anything here other than a veiled threat is made against the accused.
You're the one who has said "We don't know the facts", yet you are deducing from media articles that there is no evidence? Again you're making assumptions. Acting very hypocritical here. You don't know if she had passed out at some point (after making 21 phone calls) and was brought to the room unconscious. You don't know the circumstances, and neither do I nor anyone here... so rather than making a sweeping statement that there is no evidence, stick to your own advice.

“the woman claims she was drugged and sexually interfered with”

"The woman said she started crying and she left the apartment immediately and got a cab to a friend's home. I told him (cab driver) to hurry up, I think I've been raped"

The 26-year-old woman told police she might have been sexually assaulted”

Comment : There is a disparity in the original allegation of being “drugged” aswell as sexually assaulted. The woman has stated that she is not sure if a sexual assault took place.
She was initially unsure in the confusion of event. Evidence taken by police (as stated in the media...) and initial observations deduce that sexual intercourse had occurred that night between the female and an undisclosed person. We don't know if the police believe there is enough evidence to suggest sexual assault had occurred. But obviously, the police have some belief and evidence that intercourse/assault has taken place, or else the case would be thrown out of the commital hearing.

“A RAPE case against NRL player Anthony Laffranchi” is reported in the media.

“The 26-year-old woman, who cannot be named”

Comment : the person with a public profile has his name dragged through the mud while there is anonimity for the person making the allegation however flimsy
So basically your argument here is she is gold digging? Laffranchi was charged under the Crimes Act (1900) and hence his alleged offence is public record, so his name can be published. Laws prevent alleged rape victims having their name published. Again, you are basing your assumption that the evidence is "flimsy" on what you've read in the media... take your own advice again, you dont know all the facts

There is much more of a case in this thread to have some of the dimwitted posters charged with making a spurious or vexatious assumptions without any basis in fact and the character assasination of someone for their own petty grandstanding motives.
:roll: All you've tried to do is character "assassinate" the alleged victim. Take your own advice, stop being a hypocrite.
 

[furrycat]

Coach
Messages
18,827
Jatz Crackers said:
But hey Furrycat, we all know you have a mind like a steel trap, so why dont we excercise it somewhat.

Go read each of my paragraphs marked COMMENT in my post # 147 and why dont you explain exactly where you would challenge whats said in them.

Of course you wont try and avoid examination of your theories by changing the subject or going on off a sidestepping tangent, or just plain disappearing without replying now will you ?

Talk the talk then big boy.
 
Messages
3,070
[furrycat] said:
Making up lies again are we? Well when you can find a post where I say
1. He is guilty.
2. Because he has been charged, he must have committed the crime
... then I'll eat my hat.

You have either implied it or advocated a position against Laffranch before even the commital hearing has been determined. This is some of your baseless trash talk in this thread :

So if he is drunk you're saying he should be excused?
If you did it, you did it and you face prosecution.


Everyone condemns the victim on these forums and finds a way to glorify the defendant without knowing any of the details.

People like ink who make stupid f**kin arguments that men should be able to get drunk and rape women are a waste of f**kin oxygen and it sickens me.

I see your point, but its a f**king stupid one. You're practically trying to blame a rape victim here.

And don't play that card- the majority of sexual assaults are comitted by males.

So if a girl is passed out, hence will have no memory of it, she hasn't been raped?

If he didnt have sex with her why had he been charged

So start eating your hat.
 

[furrycat]

Coach
Messages
18,827
Jatz Crackers said:
You have either implied it or advocated a position against Laffranch before even the commital hearing has been determined. This is some of your baseless trash talk in this thread :

So if he is drunk you're saying he should be excused?
If you did it, you did it and you face prosecution.


Everyone condemns the victim on these forums and finds a way to glorify the defendant without knowing any of the details.

People like ink who make stupid f**kin arguments that men should be able to get drunk and rape women are a waste of f**kin oxygen and it sickens me.

I see your point, but its a f**king stupid one. You're practically trying to blame a rape victim here.

And don't play that card- the majority of sexual assaults are comitted by males.

So if a girl is passed out, hence will have no memory of it, she hasn't been raped?

If he didnt have sex with her why had he been charged

So start eating your hat and after your done their dont forget to reply to my previous post
:lol: I don't make one refernece her saying that he is guilty and 90% of those quotes are hypotheticals in regards to comments made by other posters that were not directly related to this case.

If he didnt have sex with her why had he been charged
My god how you deduce that means "He raped her" is beyond me. I'm saying the police must be able to prove sex occurred to make the charge- that doesn't mean he is guilty or that I'm saying a rape occurred.

Very weak dude... very weak :lol:

(I've already replied mate...)

Oh and I bet if I go to bed right now, you'll take that as me advocating that he is a rapist and I'm just skipping the argument. And if I have a pull before sleeping, it implies I believe he raped her.
 

[furrycat]

Coach
Messages
18,827
Jatz Crackers said:
With language like that it begs the question. Are you a prostitute ?

Dont get all fretted. I will be replying steel trap responses. :lol:

You can't even respond to an argument without trying to be personal or reading the post :lol: Its pathetic... you just avoided the reply all together.

Cheers mate but I'll be off for now :lol: Sure I'll return tomorrow night and find the same crap posted by you with your personal vendetta against an alleged victim. You're allowed to discredit her but we can't say anything about your boyfriend.

Nice side step of my big reply btw... :lol:
 
Messages
3,070
[furrycat] said:
:lol: I don't make one refernece her saying that he is guilty and 90% of those quotes are hypotheticals in regards to comments made by other posters that were not directly related to this case.

(I've already replied mate...)

So to defend the rubbish you write you now say your statements are "hypotheticals"

Truely mate, you really do waver all over the place with a subject.
 
Messages
3,070
[furrycat] said:
You can't even respond to an argument without trying to be personal or reading the post :lol: Its pathetic... you just avoided the reply all together.

Cheers mate but I'll be off for now :lol: Sure I'll return tomorrow night and find the same crap posted by you with your personal vendetta against an alleged victim. You're allowed to discredit her but we can't say anything about your boyfriend.

Nice side step of my big reply btw... :lol:

Calm down little cat I will be looking at your reply and responding. Ive said so in the post above yours.
 

[furrycat]

Coach
Messages
18,827
Jatz Crackers said:
So to defend the rubbish you write you now say your statements are "hypotheticals"

Truely mate, you really do waver all over the place with a subject.
Rather than debate you just write it all off as rubbish as you can't admit that you're either wrong, or someone has a half decent argument.

Tell me then Jatz,

Hypothetically, would the police charge an alleged offender of sexual assault if they could not prove that some degree of sexual intercourse took place between the alleged offender and alleged victim? (Consentual or not)

Because if you say "No of course they dont need to prove that"... then what leg do the police have to stand on when the magistrate asks at the commital
"So, what evidence do you have to prove the sexual assault occurred?"
"Oh none- just the victims word. We can't even prove sex took place"
???

Again.. I'm not saying a rape has occurred in this situation, you just get far too touchy and defensive... Anyone would think you were on trial here.

Toodles
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,734
Wouldn't be the first time Furry the police have bungled an investigation up (no offence NqBoy). Furry you would have to agree that the evidence is pretty thin, if she was that drunk and can't remember much of the night, who's to say she didn't instigate OR agree to roll in the hay. This is the main reason that makes me suspicious of the whole event and the rape allegation. Surely (even though football players aren't exactly rocket scientists) Lafranchi wouldn't be that stupid to carry out an act without some sort of consent (that is if he had intercourse with her, whos to say it wasnt the so called "mate" she refers to) because he would surely know that his profile would make him easy to find/point the finger at. I think speculating on this whole issue (which includes me) is probably futile until the investigation/court case is done and dusted. Just my opinion.
 
Messages
3,070
[furrycat] said:
Rather than debate you just write it all off as rubbish as you can't admit that you're either wrong, or someone has a half decent argument.

Tell me then Jatz,

Hypothetically, would the police charge an alleged offender of sexual assault if they could not prove that some degree of sexual intercourse took place between the alleged offender and alleged victim? (Consentual or not)

You like hypotheticals, I would rather stick with facts. The fact is Laffrachi is innocent until proven guilty. Ive already posted your comments in which you imply otherwise.

Because if you say "No of course they dont need to prove that"... then what leg do the police have to stand on when the magistrate asks at the commital
"So, what evidence do you have to prove the sexual assault occurred?"
"Oh none- just the victims word. We can't even prove sex took place"
???

See above. This issue you raise is irrelevant & deflective.

Again.. I'm not saying a rape has occurred in this situation, you just get far too touchy and defensive... Anyone would think you were on trial here.

You have wrongly advocated a position in support of the alleged victim well before even a commital hearing outcome. Laffrachi is entitled to a presumption of innocence, but of course, my leared friend, your many years of practising law astounds us all.

Toodles
 
Messages
3,070
This is what you get when you debate Furrycat. He/she is seemingly incapable of providing or following a logical pathway of debate that people can follow.

Here below is an example of just how confusing it gets. 3 contradictions in one single paragraph.

[furrycat] said:
Post 147
Evidence taken by police and initial observations deduce that sexual intercourse had occurred that night between the female and an undisclosed person. We don't know if the police believe there is enough evidence to suggest sexual assault had occurred. But obviously, the police have some belief and evidence that intercourse/assault has taken place, or else the case would be thrown out of the commital hearing.
 
Messages
3,070
To his honor furrycat :
Ive read you whole mixed up response to my post 147. Well I should have expected no less. Your grasp of the argument and the law is just astonishing.

In virtually all your answers to my comments above you are assuming/guessing/presupposing/inferring/implying or being just plain mischieviously deceitful that I am making an allegation or mounting a case AGAINST the alleged victim. As usual your are sadly mistaken.


So here it is in really simple terms that maybe, just maybe even you might comprehend.


I am not advocating a position against the alleged victim. I am advocating a position against those who challenge the tried and tested legal concept that Laffranchi is entitled to a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. You need to simply drop acting like a grandstanding pork chop and support Laffranchis right to enjoy that presumption or come out and say you don’t support that legal principal.


If you don’t oppose that legal principal then go back and re-read the rubbish you wrote in this thread & be ashamed of yourself.

If you do oppose that legal principal, we can then commence a debate on that single issue subject if your legal giant mind can withstand it. :lol:
 

BWNB

First Grade
Messages
8,011
1 Eyed TEZZA said:
She dreamt the sore and red vagina and doctor also dreamt examining her?

I have just completed a course for Alchahol service and we covered drink spiking. Just thought you might all want to know that it happens on average 5 times a day in Australia and that is only cases that are reported. Im sure the ladies on this forum will understand some ladies that are date raped are to embarrased or scared to report it.

I know a girl who was date raped and it was her brothers friend that did it, so just because he is a high profile footballer dosent mean she wants a pay out, she might just want justice.

He could be innocent, I dont have a view on it because I dont know what happened, so I think most people should know all the facts before assuming she is looking for money or revenge or justice.


Did a course in RSA too and they reckon that its quite common that a women will say their drinks have been spiked when in actual fact they have just had to much.
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,576
It is an interesting case, but we have to remember that NSW criminal law is common law. This means that it is built upon precedents, based on INTERPRETATION of the law.

So in otherwords, we all could have different interpretations of it, which isn't necessarily incorrect, but we would have to back our opinion with past cases.

I truly think there has been a massive misunderstanding between posters in this thread when Lafranchi's 'drunk excuse' comes in. I don't think posters were arguing he was drunk so they should let it go. But actually just inverting the law. If intoxication means that consent may not be able to given, Laffranchi has every right to claim that he was drunk, and he did not give consent... However, I believe that is why the 'thanks for the orgasm' evidence is damaging for Laffranchi.

It is all well and good to argue that Laffranchi is presumed innocent until guilty, but this rarely happens anymore, and is merely a line of positivist legal rhetoric. Dr Haneef was deported despite being innocent until proven guilty, the bulldogs players were labelled guilty until proven innocent...

And for people claiming they have this great knowledge because they have their RSA... Tell me someone who failed getting theirs? Of cause you can't...
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,972
Frailty said:
And for people claiming they have this great knowledge because they have their RSA... Tell me someone who failed getting theirs? Of cause you can't...

I picked up a vomiting virus during the lunch break. I vomited twice during the course, finished my test before anyone else before rushing to the toilet to hop aboard the chunder express for another round trip. If that can't f**k you up, nothing can.
 
Messages
3,070
Frailty said:
However, I believe that is why the 'thanks for the orgasm' evidence is damaging for Laffranchi.
I disagree from the outset. Unless Laffranchi has been positively identified as the person on the tape who made that particular statement then it isn’t damagaing to Laffranchi at all. To draw that conclusion without evidence is doing what furrycat does 15 times in one sentence……..assume guilt prior to knowing the facts of the case. Unless its been stated otherwise in the media I have seen no report that binds Laff to the voice on the tape. Its my understanding that at this time the available facts do not present that evidence. This is a prime example of the necessity for recognition of the presumed innocence principal.

It is all well and good to argue that Laffranchi is presumed innocent until guilty, but this rarely happens anymore, and is merely a line of positivist legal rhetoric.
I disagree. Its more than rhetoric. A commital hearing is there to test and clear hurdles otherwise this would already be at trial.

Dr Haneef was deported despite being innocent until proven guilty
Well, we can all agree that terrorism politics is a unique can of worms.
 

nqboy

First Grade
Messages
8,914
Frailty said:
And for people claiming they have this great knowledge because they have their RSA... Tell me someone who failed getting theirs? Of cause you can't...
What's an RSA?
 
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