The 2010 Toyota Cup Team of the Year

[MatthewA]

As some have said there would have to be a few changes in that team. But I think Sezer deserved it. I think he's in the top 3 reasons, along with the performances of our great forward pack, that we're competing for the minor premiership.

As for Massey, here's an article from the Bulldogs website:

http://www.bulldogs.com.au/default.aspx?s=article-display&id=27744&bulldogs-beat-storm-in-nyc

"And fullback Nathan Massey, who has signed with Canberra for 2011, was safe in the last line of defence"

Second last paragraph.

 

[Rich102]

Classic case of selection by committee.

The Warriors have done well since they lost the first four games. The highest for and against at +250.

As said previously Likiliki has not been their strongest player this year. Strong across the park and a great team spirit should see them do well in the finals.

(Shame the seniors couldn't have finished a place higher to earn both sides a home game.)

Still, if they're good enough they will win it from here.

 

[Iafeta]

I agree with you Rich, but some of the guys ahead of the blokes we'd have are brilliant talents - Gagai for instance is remarkable. Other really good sides like the Cowboys also have a dearth of players in the team.

In the years I've watched NYC, two players have owned the propping position in games like few others. Russell Packer against the Broncos in that fateful semi in the first year (it was criminal he ended up on the losing team), and then Mark Ioane against Parra on the weekend. Ioane could have played against the Parra pack on his own and won with ease.

 

[Packy]

Interesting to see Patmore picked as coach, if I can recall the fans wanted him out at at the start of the year. Well done to him and also wraps to David Kidwell who is on the verge of leading Souths to a minor premiership on his debut season incharge.

These are the same "fans" that call for Barba to be sacked, promoted signed for life and then sacked again all in a week. Patmore is good gear.

 

[Packy]

Massey confuses me. He's left a club where the fullback is moving on, to come to a club that has a 20 year old with a mortgage on the first grade spot, and an Australian schoolboys fullback in Toyota Cup.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that the Raiders have signed him, he'll be a good insurance policy, I just don't see what's in it for him?

To be the next David Milne.

 

[Deleted member 10972]

Here guys, just a comparison to highlight some of the strange selections:

Firstly, Dylan Farrell at centre...

- Drury Low (Raiders) - 20 games, 20 tries, 17 linebreaks, 6 try assists, 64 tackle breaks, average 8 runs for 91 metres
- Siuatonga Likiliki (Warriors) - 22 games, 18 tries, 21 linebreaks, 6 try assists, 145 tackle breaks, average 13 runs for 135 metres
- Nehe Millner-Skudder (Bulldogs) - 24 games (7 at fullback), 17 tries, 21 linebreaks, 12 try assists, 76 tackle breaks, average 8 runs for 88 metres
- Junior Vaivai (Souths) - 18 games, 16 tries, 14 linebreaks, 2 try assists, 74 tackle breaks, average 7 runs for 75 metres
- Dale Copley (Broncos) - 12 games, 14 tries, 18 linebreaks, 0 try assists, 70 tackle breaks, average 10 runs for 101 metres
- Malakai Watene-Zelezniak (Panthers) - 24 games, 12 tries, 18 linebreaks, 2 try assists, 75 tackle breaks, average 10 runs for 86 metres
- Timoteo Lafai (Bulldogs) - 17 games, 10 tries, 15 linebreaks, 11 try assists, 79 tackle breaks, average 10 runs for 95 metres

.
..
...
..
.

- Dylan Farrell (Souths) - 18 games, 8 tries, 2 linebreaks, 1 try assist, 46 tackle breaks, average 7 runs for 67 metres

So at least 6 more deserving centres than Farrell missed out on the spot, simply because Farrell was given an extended and relatively successful run in first grade. That is now how the team should be selected, if this is the case.

Another strange one is the selection of Andrew Clayton at prop.

- Martin Taupau (Bulldogs) - 16 games, 5 linebreaks, 11 offloads, 106 tackle breaks, average 16 runs for 170 metres
- Sam Kasiano (Bulldogs) - 19 games, 8 linebreaks, 55 offloads, 68 tackle breaks, average 17 runs for 154 metres
- Tariq Sims (Broncos) - 24 games, 14 tries, 20 linebreaks, 19 offloads, 147 tackle breaks, avearge 16 runs for 148 metres
- James Cunningham (Manly) - 22 games, 2 linebreaks, 2 offloads, 38 tackle breaks, average 16 runs for 140 metres
- Evrett Vaurasi (Panthers) - 21 games, 6 linebreaks, 45 offloads, 70 tackle breaks, average 15 runs for 133 metres
- Lama Tasi (Manly) - 22 games, 10 linebreaks, 8 offloads, 75 tackle breaks, average 15 runs for 133 metres

.
..
...
..
.

- Andrew Clayton (Broncos) - 24 games, 4 linebreaks, 11 offloads, 57 tackle breaks, average 12 runs for 106 metres

...and anyone who has watched a fair bit of the NYC (like myself) would know that even the props who aren't right up on the metre-eater gauge but have had profound impacts in every performance (Neil Begovich - Tigers, Peni Terepo - Eels, Mark Ioane - Warriors, Pakisonasi Afu - Bulldogs) are by some margin better than Andrew Clayton, who is nothing more than an honest toiler.

Those are by far the two more questionable selections, but there are a few others too.

Ryan James (Titans) had a relatively average NYC season but his impressive performances in first grade, much like Farrell, seem to have warranted his selection in the team of the year. A definite candidate would be Josh Jackson (Bulldogs) who finished the regular season with plenty of linebreaks, try assists, tackles and metres.

Dale Finucane (Bulldogs) is a decent player but there are better players in his position, yet much like Clayton, he has been selected ahead of a fair few more deserving players. I would suggest someone like Tohu Harris (Storm), Kyle O'Donnell (Sharks) or the versatile Dom Walsh (Titans), all of whom are certified linebreaking backrowers with impressive credentials.

I will accept Cook (Knights) being picked at lock ahead of Leary (Storm), Bromwich (Storm) or Hyland (Tigers) - they are different players, with Leary and Bromwich being linebreakers, Hyland being a workhorse, and Cook being a ballplayer. But honestly, how Nafe Seluini (Warriors) missed out on a bench spot is simply beyond me. Best impact player in the competition bar none.

Some VERY questionable selections, to say the least

 

[BOMAR]

Here guys, just a comparison to highlight some of the strange selections:

Firstly, Dylan Farrell at centre...

- Drury Low (Raiders) - 20 games, 20 tries, 17 linebreaks, 6 try assists, 64 tackle breaks, average 8 runs for 91 metres
- Siuatonga Likiliki (Warriors) - 22 games, 18 tries, 21 linebreaks, 6 try assists, 145 tackle breaks, average 13 runs for 135 metres
- Nehe Millner-Skudder (Bulldogs) - 24 games (7 at fullback), 17 tries, 21 linebreaks, 12 try assists, 76 tackle breaks, average 8 runs for 88 metres
- Junior Vaivai (Souths) - 18 games, 16 tries, 14 linebreaks, 2 try assists, 74 tackle breaks, average 7 runs for 75 metres
- Dale Copley (Broncos) - 12 games, 14 tries, 18 linebreaks, 0 try assists, 70 tackle breaks, average 10 runs for 101 metres
- Malakai Watene-Zelezniak (Panthers) - 24 games, 12 tries, 18 linebreaks, 2 try assists, 75 tackle breaks, average 10 runs for 86 metres
- Timoteo Lafai (Bulldogs) - 17 games, 10 tries, 15 linebreaks, 11 try assists, 79 tackle breaks, average 10 runs for 95 metres

.
..
...
..
.

- Dylan Farrell (Souths) - 18 games, 8 tries, 2 linebreaks, 1 try assist, 46 tackle breaks, average 7 runs for 67 metres

So at least 6 more deserving centres than Farrell missed out on the spot, simply because Farrell was given an extended and relatively successful run in first grade. That is now how the team should be selected, if this is the case.

Another strange one is the selection of Andrew Clayton at prop.

- Martin Taupau (Bulldogs) - 16 games, 5 linebreaks, 11 offloads, 106 tackle breaks, average 16 runs for 170 metres
- Sam Kasiano (Bulldogs) - 19 games, 8 linebreaks, 55 offloads, 68 tackle breaks, average 17 runs for 154 metres
- Tariq Sims (Broncos) - 24 games, 14 tries, 20 linebreaks, 19 offloads, 147 tackle breaks, avearge 16 runs for 148 metres
- James Cunningham (Manly) - 22 games, 2 linebreaks, 2 offloads, 38 tackle breaks, average 16 runs for 140 metres
- Evrett Vaurasi (Panthers) - 21 games, 6 linebreaks, 45 offloads, 70 tackle breaks, average 15 runs for 133 metres
- Lama Tasi (Manly) - 22 games, 10 linebreaks, 8 offloads, 75 tackle breaks, average 15 runs for 133 metres

.
..
...
..
.

- Andrew Clayton (Broncos) - 24 games, 4 linebreaks, 11 offloads, 57 tackle breaks, average 12 runs for 106 metres

...and anyone who has watched a fair bit of the NYC (like myself) would know that even the props who aren't right up on the metre-eater gauge but have had profound impacts in every performance (Neil Begovich - Tigers, Peni Terepo - Eels, Mark Ioane - Warriors, Pakisonasi Afu - Bulldogs) are by some margin better than Andrew Clayton, who is nothing more than an honest toiler.

Those are by far the two more questionable selections, but there are a few others too.

Ryan James (Titans) had a relatively average NYC season but his impressive performances in first grade, much like Farrell, seem to have warranted his selection in the team of the year. A definite candidate would be Josh Jackson (Bulldogs) who finished the regular season with plenty of linebreaks, try assists, tackles and metres.

Dale Finucane (Bulldogs) is a decent player but there are better players in his position, yet much like Clayton, he has been selected ahead of a fair few more deserving players. I would suggest someone like Tohu Harris (Storm), Kyle O'Donnell (Sharks) or the versatile Dom Walsh (Titans), all of whom are certified linebreaking backrowers with impressive credentials.

I will accept Cook (Knights) being picked at lock ahead of Leary (Storm), Bromwich (Storm) or Hyland (Tigers) - they are different players, with Leary and Bromwich being linebreakers, Hyland being a workhorse, and Cook being a ballplayer. But honestly, how Nafe Seluini (Warriors) missed out on a bench spot is simply beyond me. Best impact player in the competition bar none.

Some VERY questionable selections, to say the least

Just a little off track, but could you tell me where you get your yearly stats from.

 

[Deleted member 10972]

Just a little off track, but could you tell me where you get your yearly stats from.

nrlstats.com

Go down to detailed stats, click on NYC.

Another questionable one is Josh Mansour (Souths) on the wing. Sure, he was like a freight train with the ball in hand, being a very dangerous runner and tackle busting machine (211 tackle breaks in 24 games is a whopping number), but his try scoring and linebreaking for a winger isn't that high - only 12 tries and 13 linebreaks. What about:

- Mark Kheirallah (Roosters) - 17 games, 19 tries, 17 linebreaks, 57 tackle breaks
- Ryan Tongia (Titans) - 19 games, 18 tries, 19 linebreaks, 111 tackle breaks
- Wayne Ulugia (Cowboys) - 20 games, 17 tries, 18 linebreaks, 87 tackle breaks

There were some other decent wingers like Faleula Finau (Tigers), Ken Sio (Eels), Elijah Niko (Warriors), Kyle Feldt (Cowboys), Jordan Kahu (Broncos), Mick Oldfield (Manly) and Eddie Faaumasili (Storm) but I rate Mansour ahead of them. The three aforementioned wingers, however, have scored a bundle of tries and demonstrated searing pace, especially Kheirallah - watching that kid in the clear was an amazing sight.

 

[Big Pete]

Cheers for all the posts Mack.

I've found it extremely enlightening.

Just a question, did you think Tariq was a deserved winner? Who did you have in mind?

EDIT: Not that I'm defending the selection but really stats. don't do Clayton justice. The boy was renown for putting on major hits and obviously that's a stat. that doesn't come up. Still, I believe he got his selection based on association more than anything else.

 

[Deleted member 10972]

Cheers for all the posts Mack.

I've found it extremely enlightening.

Just a question, did you think Tariq was a deserved winner? Who did you have in mind?

EDIT: Not that I'm defending the selection but really stats. don't do Clayton justice. The boy was renown for putting on major hits and obviously that's a stat. that doesn't come up. Still, I believe he got his selection based on association more than anything else.

Regardless of the big hits, surely you can't say that Taupau, Kasiano or Vaurasi, who put in Herculean efforts every week, deserve to miss out because of the occasional big hit?

Sims is outstanding - his stats match those of Andrew Fifita's last year, and I believe he will have a similar impact in the NRL.

Sims 2010 - 24 games, 14 tries, 20 linebreaks, 147 tackle breaks, average 16 runs for 148 metres

Fifita 2009 - 27 games, 16 tries, 18 linebreaks, 164 tackle breaks, average 12 runs for 111 metres

That said, it is hard to look past Brad Murray, who I believe was the other player considered for Player of the Year. As a halfback, he performed very well behind a relatively unassuming pack, set up a massive amount of tries and was an ace goalkicker too. I expect him to be a force in the run into the finals.

 

[slammingsam]

The Mack - stats are a joke really.
You cant question players selections on the basis of stats.

Stats are nothing.
Use your eyes and judge players then.

 

[Noa]

The Mack - stats are a joke really.
You cant question players selections on the basis of stats.

Stats are nothing.
Use your eyes and judge players then.

Shaun Fensom makes 40 something tackles a match, thats a stat, is that a joke ?

Stats are fine and a great tool, you just have to know which ones mean something.

 

[Deleted member 10972]

The Mack - stats are a joke really.
You cant question players selections on the basis of stats.

Stats are nothing.
Use your eyes and judge players then.

And I have...hence why I am not that disappointed in Mansour's selection. Although he might not have that many linebreaks, I have watched how important his contributions to his team have been.

Farrell and James have both been quite average in NYC in my honest opinion, from when I have seen them too. Farrell has had great ball from his halves but done little to show with it.

 

[slammingsam]

Shaun Fensom makes 40 something tackles a match, thats a stat, is that a joke ?

Stats are fine and a great tool, you just have to know which ones mean something.

It doesn't show if its 3rd man in and if he flops on the player etc.
Its misleading.

 

[Noa]

every-one is 3rd man in at some stage.

 

[NAS]

And I have...hence why I am not that disappointed in Mansour's selection. Although he might not have that many linebreaks, I have watched how important his contributions to his team have been.

Farrell and James have both been quite average in NYC in my honest opinion, from when I have seen them too. Farrell has had great ball from his halves but done little to show with it.

I'm sorry, how many under 20's games did you watch Farrell in this year?

Because you obviously watched a different game to me each week.

Ben Murdoch Masala was bloody good this year for the tigers as well. But Sims deserved player of the year. Sam Mataora at the raiders was another who could have been considered for honours

 

[playdaball]

Still don't know how the Warriors only got 1 player in this side

 

[Iafeta]

I think the likes of Nafe Seluini and Glen Fisiiahi showed well and truly why they deserved to be a part of that sham of a team throughout the back end of the season.