The 4 Nations 2014 is a Mess

[RoosTah]

don't watch it then cos you are wrong on every point you've made

And yet some how I'm the only one here with any facts to support my argument, whilst you're arguments consist of petulant name calling and telling people to effectively get stuffed if they don't agree with you.

 

[roughyedspud]

ok cupcake...

the fact you keep referencing rugby union gives you away as a troll....and i don't feed trolls

 

[RoosTah]

ok cupcake...

the fact you keep referencing rugby union gives you away as a troll....and i don't feed trolls

Mate, Australia isn't England. Here plenty of us play both games and don't waste our time on fagball like all you pussies over there who spend your time obsessing over the dive-a-thon in the EPL.

If you don't have an actual argument with actual facts, then just suck it up f**ktard and shut the f**k up.

 

[Rodney]

Argentina are fair outsiders.
They're only going to win if their opponents are terrible on the day.
While Samoa might be a few shades back from what argentina are, you wouldn't put it beyond them if the conditions were right.
And v England at Suncorp seems like it might be one of those opportune times.

What can be safely assumed this time is that they're not going to get done by 40, and they'll be unlucky to be put away by more than 20.
Samoa are a league ahead of PNG when they're equipped with heritage players and PNG got within breathing distance of England on numerous occasions.

And I don't agree with you that the final is getting outdrawn by its preceding matches as to suggest a public widespread public disapproval of it.
The final, more often than not, is the biggest game in the tournament.
I don't know where the TV ratings figures come from but the finals usually aren't a fair comparison.
The round robin matches are played in a different city (sometimes different countries) than the final, which greatly affects their draw.

In 2010 when the round robin beat the final you also have to consider that that game was a double header.
It was in Eden Park ( a fairly rare occurance at that time) and the final was at suncorp.
And even then the difference was only 8k.

In 2011 it was a similar scenario as a double header was held skewing the result.

In 2006 the matches that were bigger than the final were in different cities to the final, Brisbane generally has a higher draw for rugby league test matches than Sydney and i'm pretty sure this was the first RL test held at docklands making it somewhat novel.

2005 the final was held in England with 2 foreign teams, and it was only marginally beat by that match held in Australia.

The only clear superior of a group match compared to a final happened in 1999, the first iteration of the tri-nations
in 1999 the round robin match between aus v nz beat the final marginally at the same venue.
But the difference between the two games was marginal in my view, only 1.3k difference

If the public were disillusioned with the final i'd think that the final would be consistently worse than the preceding games.
And years like 2009 shouldn't happen.
And while the final is not universally praised as the perfect way of finishing the tournament, I don't feel that there is any sort of palpable widespread dissent.
I believe most are apathetic or don't mind how the tournament is arranged.
The final has about the same draw as the proceeding games, if a little more.

The 4nations is designed to provide an extra blockade in front of the best team from winning and to prolong interest in the tournament.
In the end it means more money and more viewers for the tournament as a whole.
Some may be put off by that and that it dosen't necessarily reward the best team, but in return it provides more high stake contests which tend to produce high quality footy.
I'm not overly fussed with that exchange and the governing bodies involved probably don't mind it either

 

[RoosTah]

And I don't agree with you that the final is getting outdrawn by its preceding matches as to suggest a public widespread public disapproval of it.
The final, more often than not, is the biggest game in the tournament.
I don't know where the TV ratings figures come from but the finals usually aren't a fair comparison.
The round robin matches are played in a different city (sometimes different countries) than the final, which greatly affects their draw.

In 2010 when the round robin beat the final you also have to consider that that game was a double header.
It was in Eden Park ( a fairly rare occurance at that time) and the final was at suncorp.
And even then the difference was only 8k.

In 2011 it was a similar scenario as a double header was held skewing the result.

In 2006 the matches that were bigger than the final were in different cities to the final, Brisbane generally has a higher draw for rugby league test matches than Sydney and i'm pretty sure this was the first RL test held at docklands making it somewhat novel.

2005 the final was held in England with 2 foreign teams, and it was only marginally beat by that match held in Australia.

The only clear superior of a group match compared to a final happened in 1999, the first iteration of the tri-nations
in 1999 the round robin match between aus v nz beat the final marginally at the same venue.
But the difference between the two games was marginal in my view, only 1.3k difference

If the public were disillusioned with the final i'd think that the final would be consistently worse than the preceding games.
And years like 2009 shouldn't happen.
And while the final is not universally praised as the perfect way of finishing the tournament, I don't feel that there is any sort of palpable widespread dissent.
I believe most are apathetic or don't mind how the tournament is arranged.
The final has about the same draw as the proceeding games, if a little more.

The 4nations is designed to provide an extra blockade in front of the best team from winning and to prolong interest in the tournament.
In the end it means more money and more viewers for the tournament as a whole.
Some may be put off by that and that it dosen't necessarily reward the best team, but in return it provides more high stake contests which tend to produce high quality footy.
I'm not overly fussed with that exchange and the governing bodies involved probably don't mind it either

I wasn't really saying the public were disillusioned, rather that they don't treat the game any different than the round robin matches, something the crowds and ratings demonstrate I reckon. And that's the point - why decide the champions on the basis of a one off match that has no real build up and that the public doesn't really recognise as being particularly distinct from the round robin anyway? There's only a few weeks of footy in there and only a few teams competing, so just decide it on aggregate.

 

[deal.with.it]

I reckon we wait and watch this 4nations. Then have this convo.

 

[roughyedspud]

Mate, Australia isn't England. Here plenty of us play both games and don't waste our time on fagball like all you pussies over there who spend your time obsessing over the dive-a-thon in the EPL.

If you don't have an actual argument with actual facts, then just suck it up f**ktard and shut the f**k up.

hahaha....being english "fagball" is in my blood,it can't be helped but first and foremost im a RL fan,not a glory hunting one either,my team is in the 3rd tier of our system....in fact my team isn't even the biggest team in my town anymore...theres 3 "park teams" bigger than my team....so don't f**king tell me what i should be wasting my time obcessing over you c***


the fact is t

he 4 nations is a better comp than the tri nations ever was for half a f**king dozen reasons.....now f**k of back to your kick & clap before i really destroy you....dickhead


ps the fastest growing sports team in australia is a "fagball" team thats been around 3 years and already has a average higher that most nrl teams....maybe thats cos everyone ignores fagball eh?

 

[RoosTah]

hahaha....being english "fagball" is in my blood,it can't be helped but first and foremost im a RL fan,not a glory hunting one either,my team is in the 3rd tier of our system....in fact my team isn't even the biggest team in my town anymore...theres 3 "park teams" bigger than my team....so don't f**king tell me what i should be wasting my time obcessing over you c***


the fact is t

he 4 nations is a better comp than the tri nations ever was for half a f**king dozen reasons.....now f**k of back to your kick & clap before i really destroy you....dickhead

I'll tell you what I f**king well like, you soft little fagball loving pommy loser.

It's your obsession with that stupid softcock sport played by pussies and supported by sooky p--fters that has seen us carve you little turds up for 60 years.

Thanks mate, you've just ensured I'll actually enjoy it this year when we blow you soft fagball loving merkins off the face of the planet in this years series.

Only people who watch the game here are little p--fters whose over protective middle class mummies wouldn't let their soft p--fter kids play contact sport. That's why they have to play it in the summer - otherwise no one would watch it (apart from immigrants).

Now piss off you softcock fagball traiter troll and go back to your pack of pussies and whingers.

 

[roughyedspud]

lol.....aw bless a 55 post veteran

 

[RoosTah]

That's right fagball lover - and I belong here a f**kload more than you do because I've played men's sports, and not cowered in a corner and then rolled around pretending to be hurt on a fagball field. Seriously just don't get how you pommy fagball c#nts have the nerve to have a crack at people who've played union as well as league when your main game is the prime architect of in modernity's attempt to emasculate society.

As I said mate, Australia ain't England. Here, you soccer tossers aren't welcome in League circles.

 

[roughyedspud]

everyone...look....apparently.....im a soccer tosser....


im actually warming to you....this is going to be fun

 

[RoosTah]

I've been enjoying myself for a while now. Before I was using reasoned debate and fact, but the minute it became apparent you were a soccer troll who'd had his testicals and brain removed during childhood, it became clear that all I needed to do was speak your language and abuse you .

 

[roughyedspud]

im a soccer troll???


lol

 

[welshmagpie]

hahaha....being english "fagball" is in my blood,it can't be helped but first and foremost im a RL fan,not a glory hunting one either,my team is in the 3rd tier of our system....in fact my team isn't even the biggest team in my town anymore...theres 3 "park teams" bigger than my team....so don't f**king tell me what i should be wasting my time obcessing over you c***


the fact is t

he 4 nations is a better comp than the tri nations ever was for half a f**king dozen reasons.....now f**k of back to your kick & clap before i really destroy you....dickhead


ps the fastest growing sports team in australia is a "fagball" team thats been around 3 years and already has a average higher that most nrl teams....maybe thats cos everyone ignores fagball eh?

Apologies for going off topic, but... Spud I'm fully aware of Oldhams situation as a South Wales fan but are the amateur clubs in the town really getting bigger crowds?

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Mate, no offence but the likes of the League Wales and Samoa teams aren't in the category as the Argentinian Rugby team. The Argies have beaten England and France at home over the past few years, and should have won at least one of their games against the boks these last two weeks.

The country has a significant domestic league and a plethora of professional players overseas. In addition, the move to add them to the SANZAR TN was done with a view to putting an Arg team in expanded Super Rugby competition.

There's just no comparison with the fourth nation in the League 4N. It's not even close in fact.

And no, the equation isn't "doesn't produce instant sell outs = failure", it's "Final has smaller crowds and worse TV ratings than the round robin = public don't buy it".

It's just bloody stupid mate, and the only people who don't think so are died-in-the-wool fans of League and the concept in particular. Even still, most of my mates think a final for a comp this short is stupid, and mates who follow other games actively ridicule it.

The ratings back that up and the general public don't see it as being any different from the round robin.

I honestly can't see any rational case for it. But if you have one, please go for it. Because nothing I've read is backed up by the stats.

Bs, France and PNG and possibly Fiji would offer RL as much if not more than Argentina when looking at thw whole game in each country. As far as I remember reading, all of the Argy players play in other comps around the world esp France because the game is amateur back home. You compare them to France RL alone and France RL is way ahead.

They just don't get the proper opportunities to improve by playing enough, the 4 Nations is about doing something to bridge the gap.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Oh, and I posted that above before I read the rest of the thread.

Knock it the hell off, if you guys want to have an argument about soccer name calling whatever, take it to TFC.

I don't want to have to waste my time cleaning threads of all the petty bullshit that has nothing to do with the 4 nations.

Btw Roostah, Roughy has been posting here for years and has never trolled anyone outside the usual pom vs aussie, kiwi, froggy whatever, but it's always about the footy and a bit of banter. He has never used Soccer to bash Rugby League over the head with to my knowledge.

 

[RoosTah]

Bs, France and PNG and possibly Fiji would offer RL as much if not more than Argentina when looking at thw whole game in each country. As far as I remember reading, all of the Argy players play in other comps around the world esp France because the game is amateur back home. You compare them to France RL alone and France RL is way ahead.

They just don't get the proper opportunities to improve by playing enough, the 4 Nations is about doing something to bridge the gap.

I'd love if that were true, but it just doesn't seem like it is. I actually say above that the Argy pro players are in foreign leagues, but they still have a significant amateur presence and have taken some big scalps in recent history. That just isn't true of a country like France in League. I'd love to see the French more into their League, but barely anyone seemed to be at their home games in the World Cup and they didn't look much chop on the pitch either.

What's the story with French League though? I know that once upon a time it was a huge deal there and they spearheaded the World Cup in the 50s, but it seems like they've just massively dropped away.

 

[RoosTah]

Oh, and I posted that above before I read the rest of the thread.

Knock it the hell off, if you guys want to have an argument about soccer name calling whatever, take it to TFC.

I don't want to have to waste my time cleaning threads of all the petty bullshit that has nothing to do with the 4 nations.

Btw Roostah, Roughy has been posting here for years and has never trolled anyone outside the usual pom vs aussie, kiwi, froggy whatever, but it's always about the footy and a bit of banter. He has never used Soccer to bash Rugby League over the head with to my knowledge.

I don't give a f**k how long the stupid prick has been here. He added nothing to this and just carried on like a f**ktard when he had nothing to offer and tried to have a crack at me for following union as well.

He's just a geniused soccer tosser that doesn't get Aussie sport and he needs to keep his pommy mouth shut.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I'd love if that were true, but it just doesn't seem like it is. I actually say above that the Argy pro players are in foreign leagues, but they still have a significant amateur presence and have taken some big scalps in recent history. That just isn't true of a country like France in League. I'd love to see the French more into their League, but barely anyone seemed to be at their home games in the World Cup and they didn't look much chop on the pitch either.

What's the story with French League though? I know that once upon a time it was a huge deal there and they spearheaded the World Cup in the 50s, but it seems like they've just massively dropped away.

France has a fully Pro team called Les Catalans Dragons. They have a Television contract with Bein sport to show their games every week plus other SL games. The NRL is also shown on this channel.

France has an Elite one comp that is semi professional, some players earn up to 60-80k a season to captain coach, Argy as you said has amateur teams. That's not to mention the elite two comp and others below that that stretch all the way from the Spanish border up to the north in Paris.

Everything needed for a brilliant RL comp is there in France bar the money to get things kick started.

I think it is you who needs to read up on a bit of Rugby history all round, not just one aspect of rugby.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

RoosTah, click the link in my sig to find all you need to know about the French game, just make sure google translator is on.