The Aussie Media trying to ruin another career?

[Tom Shines]

From what I can see, Botha bowls and off-break that goes straight on, a top spinner that goes straight on, and a doosra that goes straight on.
Nothing to fear.

 

[sanjane]

My apologies, I must have missed the footage but I can hardly say the Super Series really grabbed my attention. I'm sure you loved the footage but I notice you didn't even answer my question on your thoughts Botha. We have both seen the slow-mo footage, my eyes see an arm that starts clearly bent and at quite an angle and then straightens on delivery i.e. a chuck. What do your eyes see? And an honest answer would be nice.

And yes I mean VB series if you must plug the sponser, formally known as the World Series. But hey I notice you have a tendancy to be pedantic with spelling and the like in arguements. It's just petty and doesn't do you justice, not that your making any friends around here in a hurry anyway.



And if it wasn't Hair (and Australian umpire) that called him you wouldn't have a leg to stand on with your thinly veiled racism. The simple facts are that journalists, experts and ex-cricketers around the WORLD have critised Muralis action and the damage his (some would say illigitimate) records are doing to the game. The only reason it has become an Australian issue in your mind is that you need a target to throw all your energy into hating.

A journalist raising the question of a players action is not questioning his integrity, that would be assuming that Botha throws on purpose. Most habits, good or bad are ingrained into a bowler from an early age. Every journalist has the right to raise debate on the subject. In your opinion I would like to know why you would like throw (excuse the pun) the whole issue under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist? There is limit there set at 15% so it is still illegal to throw and until we take away those limits to make it completely legal to throw the ball, dubious actions should always been brought into question and examined otherwise the only integrity being damaged is that of the game of cricket.



The doosra itself is not an illegal delivery, it's only illegal if the arm straightens at more than 15%, thats the problem.

And again I will reiterate, it's not an Australian attack on bowlers that throw, it is a world wide attack. Botha was making his debut in Australia, he hadn't been seen on the world stage before then, do you honestly think that questions would be raised about his actions in another country when the straighting on the arm is there for all to see?

I'd rather rip off my finger nails than say a good word about Australian cricket but attack it when it's warranted. There are serious questions about Muralis actions all over the world and other bowlers like Harbajahn and Botha, your blind hatred just makes you look foolish.

* I see that Botha doesn't chuck. That's all. I haven't gone out there with a protractor etc...that's best left to the biomechanics.

* But it was Darrell Hair who called him. The other guy that called him was also Australian. Let's focus on what happened, not the ifs and buts.

* The experts regarding bowling actions are the biomechanists who have cleared Murali a number of times. For mine, I couldn't really care what Jenner, Boycott, Bedi or Benaud believe, coz for every one of the doubters, there are a hell of a lot more ex-cricketers who just love the challenge of playing Murali and combating his (and anyone else's) doosra.

* To me, chucking is a big issue. But it is the responsibility of the nation's cricketing body and the ICC to take a player to task on it. Say, if a bowler is illegal, goes through some behind-the-scenes remodelling and comes back more successful, he doesn't have to go through the shame of being tarnished all the time. Just about every article written abt Murali in the aussie press, has the words "the controversial off-spinner".

I think that questions a guy's integrity, and wouldn't like Botha or anyone else to go through it.

* Botha played in India. No questions were raised. Simple as that.

 

[Purtell The Turtle]

* I see that Botha doesn't chuck. That's all. I haven't gone out there with a protractor etc...that's best left to the biomechanics.

* But it was Darrell Hair who called him. The other guy that called him was also Australian. Let's focus on what happened, not the ifs and buts.

* The experts regarding bowling actions are the biomechanists who have cleared Murali a number of times. For mine, I couldn't really care what Jenner, Boycott, Bedi or Benaud believe, coz for every one of the doubters, there are a hell of a lot more ex-cricketers who just love the challenge of playing Murali and combating his (and anyone else's) doosra.

* To me, chucking is a big issue. But it is the responsibility of the nation's cricketing body and the ICC to take a player to task on it. Say, if a bowler is illegal, goes through some behind-the-scenes remodelling and comes back more successful, he doesn't have to go through the shame of being tarnished all the time. Just about every article written abt Murali in the aussie press, has the words "the controversial off-spinner".

I think that questions a guy's integrity, and wouldn't like Botha or anyone else to go through it.

* Botha played in India. No questions were raised. Simple as that.

Except for the latest... http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,17746442-23210,00.html

Guess you were wrong...

 

[salivor]

* I see that Botha doesn't chuck. That's all. I haven't gone out there with a protractor etc...that's best left to the biomechanics.

Come on Sanjane, I'm not going to let you off that easily. You don't think he chucks, you didn't really answer the question did you? His arm clearly starts off bent and quite an angle and then straightens on delievery. That is a throwing motion, that is undeniable, the only contention is if he is within the limit set by the ICC which as you say is up to the biomechanics. So I will ask you more specifically this time did you see his arm bent and then straigten on delievery? If not what parallel universe were you watching the game from?

* But it was Darrell Hair who called him. The other guy that called him was also Australian. Let's focus on what happened, not the ifs and buts.

Your really losing it now. All we get from you is ifs and buts, if Murali was Australian blah blah blah, I've heard it a million times and now suddenly you want to focus. Give me a break.

As I said, you know as well as I do that Muralis actions has been questioned by people all around the world, it's not an Australian issue, but hey keep your head in the sand coz I know you are desperately looking for someone to blame for Muralis record forever being tarnished.

* The experts regarding bowling actions are the biomechanists who have cleared Murali a number of times. For mine, I couldn't really care what Jenner, Boycott, Bedi or Benaud believe, coz for every one of the doubters, there are a hell of a lot more ex-cricketers who just love the challenge of playing Murali and combating his (and anyone else's) doosra.

Let me guess who these ex-cricketers are who love Muralis action. Would they be from the sub-continent? Guess it's just a conspiracy from the white devils/cheap westerners.

* To me, chucking is a big issue. But it is the responsibility of the nation's cricketing body and the ICC to take a player to task on it. Say, if a bowler is illegal, goes through some behind-the-scenes remodelling and comes back more successful, he doesn't have to go through the shame of being tarnished all the time. Just about every article written abt Murali in the aussie press, has the words "the controversial off-spinner".

I think that questions a guy's integrity, and wouldn't like Botha or anyone else to go through it.

Don't try to sugar coat it Sanjane you want to gag the press from stating what the joe average public can all see for their own eyes on the television coverage that Botha has a suspect action and is worthy of debate.

Are you trying to contend that Murali isn't controversial? Murali and his action are about as controversial as you can get in cricket, thats a fact. Why you would take objection to that comment or think that it's questioning his integrity is beyond me.

* Botha played in India. No questions were raised. Simple as that.

He barely bowled in just the 4 matches he played and wasn't subject to the slow motion replays that have exposed his action in Australia.

 

[sanjane]

* I see that Botha doesn't chuck. That's all. I haven't gone out there with a protractor etc...that's best left to the biomechanics.

Come on Sanjane, I'm not going to let you off that easily. You don't think he chucks, you didn't really answer the question did you? His arm clearly starts off bent and quite an angle and then straightens on delievery. That is a throwing motion, that is undeniable, the only contention is if he is within the limit set by the ICC which as you say is up to the biomechanics. So I will ask you more specifically this time did you see his arm bent and then straigten on delievery? If not what parallel universe were you watching the game from?



Your really losing it now. All we get from you is ifs and buts, if Murali was Australian blah blah blah, I've heard it a million times and now suddenly you want to focus. Give me a break.

As I said, you know as well as I do that Muralis actions has been questioned by people all around the world, it's not an Australian issue, but hey keep your head in the sand coz I know you are desperately looking for someone to blame for Muralis record forever being tarnished.



Let me guess who these ex-cricketers are who love Muralis action. Would they be from the sub-continent? Guess it's just a conspiracy from the white devils/cheap westerners.



Don't try to sugar coat it Sanjane you want to gag the press from stating what the joe average public can all see for their own eyes on the television coverage that Botha has a suspect action and is worthy of debate.

Are you trying to contend that Murali isn't controversial? Murali and his action are about as controversial as you can get in cricket, thats a fact. Why you would take objection to that comment or think that it's questioning his integrity is beyond me.



He barely bowled in just the 4 matches he played and wasn't subject to the slow motion replays that have exposed his action in Australia.

Is Tony Greig from the subcontinent? Ian Botham? Bruce Yardley? Mark Nicholas? Michael Slater? Richie Richardson? Brian Lara? Andrew Flintoff? Bill Lawry? etc etc etc (I don't know which boat Shane Warne is in)

The real ppl who matter are Bruce Elliot and the other biomechanists who are QUALIFIED to make such judgements.

All I'm saying is the following bowlers have been questioned and reported in matches involving Australia (whether home or away): Murali, Shoaib Malik, Mohd. Hafeez, Jermaine Lawson and now Botha. I'm sure that others have been reported elsewhere, but take the case of Shabbir Ahmed.

No one talked abt his action until it was reported by the officials in charge. That's the way it should be IMO.

Murali's been cleared. When I think controversial, I think guys like Warne, McGrath, Graemme Smith, Lara, Ganguly... coz they CREATE controversy. Murali didn't bring this upon himself. So, hence to me, he ain't CONTROVERSIAL.

If the Joe Avg guy (like you or me) want to argue abt an action, to me that's fine. I like to defend players while others may try and deride them. But a journalist, who holds much more weightage, should not be allowed to make such opinions public. That is the exact reason a player (ala Gilchrist) can not make such statements. It's called bringing the game into DISREPUTE.

And if you are so convinced by slow motion replays, why can't you be convinced by the biomechanical testing that guys like Murali and Harbhajan have had to go through to be cleared?

And again, let me reiterate, I don't like to get into the bent arm, straight arm argument coz I seriously have no real idea on it. I'm guessing you don't either.

Again, that's why I firmly believe it's best left to the lawmakers and the enforcers to decide.

 

[Matt23]

If Harbhajan and our friend from Sri Lanka are fine, then so is Botha

 

[salivor]

Is Tony Greig from the subcontinent? Ian Botham? Bruce Yardley? Mark Nicholas? Michael Slater? Richie Richardson? Brian Lara? Andrew Flintoff? Bill Lawry? etc etc etc (I don't know which boat Shane Warne is in)

The real ppl who matter are Bruce Elliot and the other biomechanists who are QUALIFIED to make such judgements.

Only a few of those you've mentioned have actually had their views published. Yet you go on to contradict yourself by saying the only ones that actually matter are Bruce Elliot and the Biomechanists.

All I'm saying is the following bowlers have been questioned and reported in matches involving Australia (whether home or away): Murali, Shoaib Malik, Mohd. Hafeez, Jermaine Lawson and now Botha. I'm sure that others have been reported elsewhere, but take the case of Shabbir Ahmed.

No one talked abt his action until it was reported by the officials in charge. That's the way it should be IMO.

Ahhhhh no they haven't. Malik was reported after a match involving Pakistan and Sri Lanka in Lahore by umpires Simon Taufel and Aleem Dar. So he was reported in the sub-continent, against another sub-continent team and one of the reporters was from the sub-continent. You do the maths.

Jermaine Lawson yes was reported in a match involving Australia but it was in the West Indies and the umpires who made the report were Sheppard and Venkat, neither of whom are Australian. The second time he was reported was in your own country Sri Lanka.

Harfeez may have been reported in Australia but the match was against the West Indies and the umpires that reported him were Koertzen, Parker, Taufel and Broad.

And what about a case like Shoaib Akhtar? He was reported in New Zealand by NZ umpires Dunn and Cowie after a match against New Zealand.

It's quite clearly a world wide crackdown on suspect actions as shown by the range of countries involved and the range in nationalities of the umpires reporting the bowlers in question. But oh no keep blaming Australia.

Murali's been cleared. When I think controversial, I think guys like Warne, McGrath, Graemme Smith, Lara, Ganguly... coz they CREATE controversy. Murali didn't bring this upon himself. So, hence to me, he ain't CONTROVERSIAL.

You may want to look up the definition of controversial as you obviously don't have a clue what it means. You can either bring controversy on yourself or controversy can follow you, either way your controversial which Murali obviously is. To not state that he is would just be a pathetic attempt by you and your sub-continent mates to re-write history.

If the Joe Avg guy (like you or me) want to argue abt an action, to me that's fine. I like to defend players while others may try and deride them. But a journalist, who holds much more weightage, should not be allowed to make such opinions public. That is the exact reason a player (ala Gilchrist) can not make such statements. It's called bringing the game into DISREPUTE.

Actually Sanjane, your completely wrong on that one. The reason that Gilchrist can't make those comments is because he is contracted to the ACB who in turn are under the ICC. The ICC don't allow players to make comments that they feel (in their warped view) may bring the game into disrepute. Journalists on the other hand are not contracted to the ICC or the ACB so don't have the same restrictions.

Why don't you just say what you really mean Sanjane, stop pussy footing around it time and time again. You want to gag the press, is that another wonderful aspect of your culture you keep telling us about. Here we call it freedom of the press, where if it's topical it generally should be published.

And if you are so convinced by slow motion replays, why can't you be convinced by the biomechanical testing that guys like Murali and Harbhajan have had to go through to be cleared?

And again, let me reiterate, I don't like to get into the bent arm, straight arm argument coz I seriously have no real idea on it. I'm guessing you don't either.

Again, that's why I firmly believe it's best left to the lawmakers and the enforcers to decide.

I have not seen the full reports from the biomechants to form an opinion. All I can go on is what I've see with my own eyes which tells me the action is extremely suspect. I also find the reports very suspect considering the amount of political pressure from the sub-continent that was put on the ICC to clear Murali.

But with all you racial hatred towards Australia, the irony in all of this is where were the biomechanical tests done? In Australia by Australian experts, so it has been Australia that has cleared the likes of Murali and Harbajahn.

You may not like to get into the bent arm, straight arm arguement but when the arm is bent then straightens upon delivery that is a throwing motion. Your the one who said you don't have an issue with his action despite this. As I've said, the only contention is if he is still within the limit set by the ICC, to not want to have his action looked into shows you obviously have no respect for the integrity of the game.

 

[bluesbreaker]

I've got all 3 One dayers and every day of the test match taped, so i'll be sure to check whether Sanjane is just bullsh*tting as per usual about the slo mo footage of Murali.

 

[Twizzle]

as posted by shif_happens

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,17746442-23210,00.html

Botha reported for throwing
January 6, 2006

SOUTH Africa off spinner Johan Botha has been reported by the game's world governing body the ICC for throwing, a South Africa team official announced tonight after the third Test against Australia at the SCG.

The right-arm off spinner has a controversial action and bowls the doosra, which spins from leg-side to off-side for a right-handed batsman.

Botha, 23, took 1-26 and 1-77 in his debut Test match, which Australia won by eight wickets today.

Further details of Botha's reporting are yet to be released by the ICC.

Advertisement:
The South Africa team was also fined today for a slow over-rate.

AAP

this is a joke right ??

how can his action be any worse than you know who ?

 

[salivor]

this is a joke right ??

how can his action be any worse than you know who ?

With all the political pressure put on the ICC by the sub-continent nations, why would any umpire ever call Murali again? It would be career suicide.

 

[Twizzle]

true, but alternatively, if Murali's action is deemed legal, how can they possibly justify reporting this guy

 

[Iafeta]

A message from the book of sanjane,

Look fellas, I don't know what your problem is. Really, its just the ICC, I mean Subcontinental Cricket Confederation who are trying to amalgamate more closely cricket with shot putting to try and get cricket to become an olympic sport. Murali is the pin up boy for that.

After all, Murali has a birth defect that does not allow him to bend his elbow. Errr, don't show footage of him on the boundary doing his warm up and doing a full flex of the elbow...

Also, we're trying to get into the French market a bit more. We feel Murali is the perfect pin-up boy to attract pertonk players.

Best Regards
Muttiah "Sanjane" Murilitharan

 

[Iafeta]

Sorry, he adds all white umpires are evil and gay people deserve imprisonment.

Best Regards
Muttiah "Sanjane" Murilitharan

 

[salivor]

The odd thing about Sanjane, 1000 posts on the LEAGUE Unlimited Front Row Forums and not a single post about League. Someone find this guy another cricket dedicated forum to inflict himself on.

 

[Timbo]

He claims to follow the Raiders. Makes me ill.

 

[sanjane]

Only a few of those you've mentioned have actually had their views published. Yet you go on to contradict yourself by saying the only ones that actually matter are Bruce Elliot and the Biomechanists.



Ahhhhh no they haven't. Malik was reported after a match involving Pakistan and Sri Lanka in Lahore by umpires Simon Taufel and Aleem Dar. So he was reported in the sub-continent, against another sub-continent team and one of the reporters was from the sub-continent. You do the maths.

Jermaine Lawson yes was reported in a match involving Australia but it was in the West Indies and the umpires who made the report were Sheppard and Venkat, neither of whom are Australian. The second time he was reported was in your own country Sri Lanka.

Harfeez may have been reported in Australia but the match was against the West Indies and the umpires that reported him were Koertzen, Parker, Taufel and Broad.

And what about a case like Shoaib Akhtar? He was reported in New Zealand by NZ umpires Dunn and Cowie after a match against New Zealand.

It's quite clearly a world wide crackdown on suspect actions as shown by the range of countries involved and the range in nationalities of the umpires reporting the bowlers in question. But oh no keep blaming Australia.



You may want to look up the definition of controversial as you obviously don't have a clue what it means. You can either bring controversy on yourself or controversy can follow you, either way your controversial which Murali obviously is. To not state that he is would just be a pathetic attempt by you and your sub-continent mates to re-write history.



Actually Sanjane, your completely wrong on that one. The reason that Gilchrist can't make those comments is because he is contracted to the ACB who in turn are under the ICC. The ICC don't allow players to make comments that they feel (in their warped view) may bring the game into disrepute. Journalists on the other hand are not contracted to the ICC or the ACB so don't have the same restrictions.

Why don't you just say what you really mean Sanjane, stop pussy footing around it time and time again. You want to gag the press, is that another wonderful aspect of your culture you keep telling us about. Here we call it freedom of the press, where if it's topical it generally should be published.



I have not seen the full reports from the biomechants to form an opinion. All I can go on is what I've see with my own eyes which tells me the action is extremely suspect. I also find the reports very suspect considering the amount of political pressure from the sub-continent that was put on the ICC to clear Murali.

But with all you racial hatred towards Australia, the irony in all of this is where were the biomechanical tests done? In Australia by Australian experts, so it has been Australia that has cleared the likes of Murali and Harbajahn.

You may not like to get into the bent arm, straight arm arguement but when the arm is bent then straightens upon delivery that is a throwing motion. Your the one who said you don't have an issue with his action despite this. As I've said, the only contention is if he is still within the limit set by the ICC, to not want to have his action looked into shows you obviously have no respect for the integrity of the game.

* All the guys I mentioned have had their views published/aired.
* But, yes: they do not matter. Only those hired by the ICC specifically for it do.
* My whole point is that journos SHOULD have restrictions imposed. Which obviously ATM, they don't.
* How was Jermaine Lawson reported in SL? He played a match, in which he was reported. No media campaign occured whatsoever.
When Murali first toured Oz (and every time since then), the Aussie media has cast doubts on his action and the authorities have responded. Again, you see with Botha, an article one day, reporting the next. Same with Lawson (if memory serves me correct, after he took a 7 for against Oz)

All too common for mine.

When did I say that I don't want his action looked into? sure, I think he doesn't throw, but I'm just saying it's up to the ICC (umps, referees etc) to look into it, not a journo (as with Botha) or an entire national (media) campaign (as with Murali).

And freedom of the press... : well, I don't think it should exist when there are far bigger repercussions at hand.

And Twiz, you do realise Murali's doosra has been cleared, don't you? And also just about every offie these days from Murali to Marlon Samuels has had their actions questioned. it's I guess, to do with the way they bowl.

Sad state of affairs IMO

 

[sanjane]

A message from the book of sanjane,

Look fellas, I don't know what your problem is. Really, its just the ICC, I mean Subcontinental Cricket Confederation who are trying to amalgamate more closely cricket with shot putting to try and get cricket to become an olympic sport. Murali is the pin up boy for that.

After all, Murali has a birth defect that does not allow him to bend his elbow. Errr, don't show footage of him on the boundary doing his warm up and doing a full flex of the elbow...

Also, we're trying to get into the French market a bit more. We feel Murali is the perfect pin-up boy to attract pertonk players.

Best Regards
Muttiah "Sanjane" Murilitharan

Are you better than Bruce Elliot? Should your opinion be weighted more than the SEVERAL biomechanists WHO HAVE PROVEN that Murali does not throw.

It's really funny seeing how some Kiwi and Aussie supporters think they are better than doctors, scientists and several other laymen. Why don't they just get a life?

Why...coz they must keep putting a good man down. Well, Murali has become a legend and I hope that Botha, Malik and Harbhajan do too.

 

[sanjane]

The odd thing about Sanjane, 1000 posts on the LEAGUE Unlimited Front Row Forums and not a single post about League. Someone find this guy another cricket dedicated forum to inflict himself on.

not a single League post????????????????????????

I'm sure I posted a few........

and also, yes, Timbo, I do follow the Raiders. Guess we are similar in one way, atleast eh?

 

[El Diablo]

* My whole point is that journos SHOULD have restrictions imposed. Which obviously ATM, they don't.

this is Australia, f**kface. You can always piss off back to the land of the homophobes where maybe they gag people too.

 

[Timbo]

And freedom of the press... : well, I don't think it should exist when there are far bigger repercussions at hand.

Cheers Adolf.