The Bears

[mongoose]

Not locally, apart from RL hating fans of other sports the general feeling is the Reds started well and could have been great if given the chance. The failure is very much seen as failure of the games leaders, not of the Reds brand. When the WARL relaunched th WA Reds in 2008 there was strong support and we got 1500-2000 to Jim Beam cup games.
can’t speak for Adelaide and the Rams brand but the Reds are still much loved in WA.

main problem for Adelaide is in need ten years plus development to be nrl ready On its own. That is a long term investment and strategy needed by the game and we know how well they do that!
A Bears in Adelaide would be a fast track but you’d be forever worried that they would be pushing for a move back to NS as their real long term goal.

I think if the NRL really wanted it, they could plonk a team in Adelaide in the next few years. It would be a similar start up as the Storm however Melbourne provides much bigger advantages than Adelaide being 4 x bigger or thereabouts. In saying that I think the demand for a NRL team in Adelaide is greater than what some people think...

 

[AdelaideSharky]

I don't get this mentality.... I would still support the Raiders if they relocated. My passion for the club would probably be diminished a bit but I wouldn't just give up on them or the sport itself.

You cherrypicked what I said to suit your own argument.

As I said in full some fans like yourself support the club for the mascot in the club's name where as people like me support my club as it is the local area that they grew up in.

Someone from Canberra simply wouldn't understand the tribal element and the deeply embedded culture that exists in the Sydney suburban clubs and the same goes for those in Melbourne who grew up supporting their local AFL club.

The Sharks could be the Bronze Whalers for all I care but if it's not called Cronulla, playing in the Cronulla area that's me done.

That's something fans of non Sydney clubs would ever understand.

 

[Colk]

Tbh relocation has only worked in one instance and that was the Sydney Swans in the AFL.

Even in that case it took the Swans 14 years and being bailed out financially by the league twice to get any sort of relevance in Sydney.

People see the Swans as the poster boys of how relocation works but think about it would the Swans have the fanbase they do if it wasn't for the team going on that run to the GF in 1996 and our game shooting ourselves in the foot with the Super League War and the merger debacles that lead to Norths' demise in the first place?

If anyone bothers to look a vast majority of the Swans fanbase in Sydney are those Bears fans and fans of other traditional clubs like Balmain who decided not to support the Wests Tigers merger.

Relocation of any existing team to a city like Adelaide or Perth simply won't cut the mustard, it just causes more harm than any good.

You have to understand while the Australian sporting culture is similar to America where all clubs have moved cities at some point it is still vastly different.

I understand that point somewhat (although it also has worked with the Brisbane Lions - yes technically a takeover of a Victorian club as opposed to a willing relocation of Fitzroy but the effects were still the same)

The problem the competition has now though is you’ve 17 teams coupled with 4 or 5 areas that could or should have a side (and which would be worth more than most if not all of the Sydney sides - Perth, Adelaide, NZ 2, Brisbane 3 even Melbourne 2 could be arguable in 20 odd years considering their population growth)

So what do you in this situation. Do you just chuck all of these sides in - I personally think don’t think that’s feasible considering our population and the quality of the competition as it stands

So in essence if you wanted the game to reach its potential and compete with the AFL you have to make some tough decisions

 

[AdelaideSharky]

I understand that point somewhat (although it also has worked with the Brisbane Lions - yes technically a takeover of a Victorian club as opposed to a willing relocation of Fitzroy but the effects were still the same)

The problem the competition has now though is you’ve 17 teams coupled with 4 or 5 areas that could or should have a side (and which would be worth more than most if not all of the Sydney sides - Perth, Adelaide, NZ 2, Brisbane 3 even Melbourne 2 could be arguable in 20 odd years considering their population growth)

So what do you in this situation. Do you just chuck all of these sides in - I personally think don’t think that’s feasible considering our population and the quality of the competition as it stands

So in essence if you wanted the game to reach its potential and compete with the AFL you have to make some tough decisions

With the exception of Kevin Murray the vast majority of old Fitzroy fans want absolutely nothing to do with the Brisbane Lions.

99% of the Lions fanbase that were around pre 1997 I'd guarantee it were Brisbane Bears fans.

Sorry we'll never ever compete with the AFL in Australia and nor should we.

Rugby League has something the AFL can only ever dream about and that's an international game.

If we want the game to "reach its potential" we should be looking outside Australia.

While I'd love to see a team down here, any Adelaide team would be playing second or third fiddle to the Crows and Port.

Just ask Adelaide United how much press they get in the media down here.

The Tiser and our TV networks largely ignore the Reds unless its to do with a crowd disturbance or in the recent case of Josh Cavallo someone decides to come out of the closet.

If a "traditional" club was to be relocated down here it should be Newtown, the Jets nickname would work here due in part to the RAAF base in Edinburgh.

Adelaide Bears would just sound ridiculous, the only bears we have down here are the two giant pandas Wang Wang & Funi at the Adelaide Zoo.

 

[Colk]

You cherrypicked what I said to suit your own argument.

As I said in full some fans like yourself support the club for the mascot in the club's name where as people like me support my club as it is the local area that they grew up in.

Someone from Canberra simply wouldn't understand the tribal element and the deeply embedded culture that exists in the Sydney suburban clubs and the same goes for those in Melbourne who grew up supporting their local AFL club.

The Sharks could be the Bronze Whalers for all I care but if it's not called Cronulla, playing in the Cronulla area that's me done.

That's something fans of non Sydney clubs would ever understand.

Fans of Sydney clubs aren’t any more special or unique than fans of non-Sydney clubs. 10,000 at Shark Park for example are counted exactly the same as 10,000 at Newcastle or Canberra or wherever else. Sydney fans aren’t counted twice and if one were to play devils advocate then you could ask why so many Sydney sides have died and why they are not getting more supporters through the gate.

This whole fans outside of Sydney can never understand Sydney is insulting and counterproductive. If you want to grow the game then you have to move outside of Sydney or your traditional areas.

It all doesn’t matter anyway because the Sydney clubs will stay where they are, so hopefully they grow

 

[AdelaideSharky]

Fans of Sydney clubs aren’t any more special or unique than fans of non-Sydney clubs. 10,000 at Shark Park for example are counted exactly the same as 10,000 at Newcastle or Canberra or wherever else. Sydney fans aren’t counted twice and if one were to play devils advocate then you could ask why so many Sydney sides have died and why they are not getting more supporters through the gate.

This whole fans outside of Sydney can never understand Sydney is insulting and counterproductive. If you want to grow the game then you have to move outside of Sydney or your traditional areas.

It all doesn’t matter anyway because the Sydney clubs will stay where they are, so hopefully they grow

You are completely and deliberately missing the point.

Most Sydney clubs with the exception of merged entities Dragons and Tigers have been around for 50-100 plus years and are the fabric of their local community.

Fans of corporate plastic franchises like Melbourne, Canberra etc simply wouldn't understand the cultural aspect that is deeply embedded in the community of the areas the Sydney clubs represent.

People who grow up in those areas largely support their local club and or support the club their parents and grandparents supported. The same thing applies to the AFL in Melbourne and football/soccer in the United Kingdom.

It's all well and good for fans of non Sydney clubs like yourself who never grew up in Sydney to gob off and say Sydney clubs should be relocated or merged.

Seems we haven't learned anything from the outrage and heartache that followed South Sydney's exclusion from the competition in 2000.

One needs to watch the doco series Souths have released Tales of Reinstatement to fully understand the outrage people felt at that time.

 

[Perth Red]

And within a year of being allowed back in souths crowds were down to under 10k, that’s how much fans cared about the club.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

And within a year of being allowed back in souths crowds were down to under 10k, that’s how much fans cared about the club.

Winning games does boost crowd numbers tbf.

Souths' crowd figures have been quite healthy since Russell Crowe bought the club in 2006 and they started making the finals on a consistent basis.

 

[mongoose]

You cherrypicked what I said to suit your own argument.

As I said in full some fans like yourself support the club for the mascot in the club's name where as people like me support my club as it is the local area that they grew up in.

Someone from Canberra simply wouldn't understand the tribal element and the deeply embedded culture that exists in the Sydney suburban clubs and the same goes for those in Melbourne who grew up supporting their local AFL club.

The Sharks could be the Bronze Whalers for all I care but if it's not called Cronulla, playing in the Cronulla area that's me done.

That's something fans of non Sydney clubs would ever understand.

yeah because there is no more Swans fans in Melbourne....

 

[AdelaideSharky]

yeah because there is no more Swans fans in Melbourne....

Where there they all in the early 90's when the club had their proverbial backside out of their pants when the AFL had to bail them out financially not once but twice.

People like yourself hold up the Swans as the poster child as to why relocation works.

Have you ever realised bar the Edelsten years in the late 80's, the Swans were pretty much outcasts.

Pre 1996 the club was on the bare bones of its arse financially, had substandard administration and training facilities the list goes on.

Everyone thinks the Swans have the proverbial silver spoon in their mouths but never considered it wasn't all pots of gold and rainbows in their early years in Sydney.

 

[Colk]

You are completely and deliberately missing the point.

Most Sydney clubs with the exception of merged entities Dragons and Tigers have been around for 50-100 plus years and are the fabric of their local community.

Fans of corporate plastic franchises like Melbourne, Canberra etc simply wouldn't understand the cultural aspect that is deeply embedded in the community of the areas the Sydney clubs represent.

People who grow up in those areas largely support their local club and or support the club their parents and grandparents supported. The same thing applies to the AFL in Melbourne and football/soccer in the United Kingdom.

It's all well and good for fans of non Sydney clubs like yourself who never grew up in Sydney to gob off and say Sydney clubs should be relocated or merged.

Seems we haven't learned anything from the outrage and heartache that followed South Sydney's exclusion from the competition in 2000.

One needs to watch the doco series Souths have released Tales of Reinstatement to fully understand the outrage people felt at that time.

Please are you really giving us the cultural gatekeeper argument? The view that somehow only supporters of Sydney teams can define their experience and support as authentic and that supporters of Melbourne, Canberra etc and their experiences of supporting their clubs is inauthentic. I’ll take that on board as a Canberra supporter that my experience is not real because I don’t follow a real club. Living in Newcastle, (yes the Knights are just important here as any Sydney club is to their region) I’ll go and tell my friends who are Knight supporters that their experiences as supporters don’t mean as much or not authentic (because we all follow plastic clubs of course)

Supporters of all clubs follow similar splits: you have people who are obsessed, you have people who have a more casual interest and then you have the bandwagoners. That doesn’t change because of where the club is located

 

[Perth Red]

Winning games does boost crowd numbers tbf.

Souths' crowd figures have been quite healthy since Russell Crowe bought the club in 2006 and they started making the finals on a consistent basis.

So they only care if they're winning? Sounds like not much a fabric of the community as some might like to think. You'd think having nearly lost the club there'd be a bit of motivation to get off their arses and actually get out and support them! Souths won lotto by having a multi millionaire hollywood Alister as a committed fan. Id hate to think the state they'd have been in by 2010 if Rusty hadnt come along.

 

[Perth Red]

Please are you really giving us the cultural gatekeeper argument? The view that somehow only supporters of Sydney teams can define their experience and support as authentic and that supporters of Melbourne, Canberra etc and their experiences of supporting their clubs is inauthentic. I’ll take that on board as a Canberra supporter that my experience is not real because I don’t follow a real club. Living in Newcastle, (yes the Knights are just important here as any Sydney club is to their region) I’ll go and tell my friends who are Knight supporters that their experiences as supporters don’t mean as much or not authentic (because we all follow plastic clubs of course)

Supporters of all clubs follow similar splits: you have people who are obsessed, you have people who have a more casual interest and then you have the bandwagoners. That doesn’t change because of where the club is located

Yes what a myth lol. Like length of histry plays a part in how genuine the fans are lol. Melbourne have managed to build a more active fanbase in 20 years than many who have had a 100 have been able to do.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

Yes what a myth lol. Like length of histry plays a part in how genuine the fans are lol. Melbourne have managed to build a more active fanbase in 20 years than many who have had a 100 have been able to do.

Tbf where would they'd be if they started having a prolonged lean period?

Melbourne have built the fanbase they have on the back of being at the top for virtually all of their existence largely thanks to being bankrolled by one of the most powerful corporations in the country.

Once Bellamy decides he's had enough and goes back to Queensland, we'll see just how active their fanbase is.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

So they only care if they're winning? Sounds like not much a fabric of the community as some might like to think. You'd think having nearly lost the club there'd be a bit of motivation to get off their arses and actually get out and support them! Souths won lotto by having a multi millionaire hollywood Alister as a committed fan. Id hate to think the state they'd have been in by 2010 if Rusty hadnt come along.

Winning on the paddock always helps boost crowds you should know that.

Assuming you're a West Coast fan in the AFL, what would their crowds be like if they suddenly ended up in the doldrums like a St Kilda?

Doesn't matter what club or sport it is winning games always boosts crowds.

 

[mongoose]

Where there they all in the early 90's when the club had their proverbial backside out of their pants when the AFL had to bail them out financially not once but twice.

People like yourself hold up the Swans as the poster child as to why relocation works.

Have you ever realised bar the Edelsten years in the late 80's, the Swans were pretty much outcasts.

Pre 1996 the club was on the bare bones of its arse financially, had substandard administration and training facilities the list goes on.

Everyone thinks the Swans have the proverbial silver spoon in their mouths but never considered it wasn't all pots of gold and rainbows in their early years in Sydney.

Maybe the same place all those Sharkies fans were when the NSWRL, ARL or NRL has to bail them out multiple times?

 

[T-Boon]

If we move the Sharks to Perth or Adelaide they can just play 3 or 4 games at shark park still. Most of the fans will stay on.

 

[AdelaideSharky]

If we move the Sharks to Perth or Adelaide they can just play 3 or 4 games at shark park still. Most of the fans will stay on.

How about we move you to the moon then we wouldn't have to read your bullshit.

Cronulla won't be going anywhere, a multi billion dollar property development that's been built on club owned land plus the leagues club redevelopment will pretty much see the club become one of the richest clubs in the game.

 

[Colk]

How about we move you to the moon then we wouldn't have to read your bullshit.

Cronulla won't be going anywhere, a multi billion dollar property development that's been built on club owned land plus the leagues club redevelopment will pretty much see the club become one of the richest clubs in the game.

I think the Sharks will probably be fine. I think most of the Sydney clubs are much better off than what they were say 5 or 10 years ago (I could probably say that about most clubs actually)

 

[Colk]

Winning on the paddock always helps boost crowds you should know that.

Assuming you're a West Coast fan in the AFL, what would their crowds be like if they suddenly ended up in the doldrums like a St Kilda?

Doesn't matter what club or sport it is winning games always boosts crowds.

So ergo supporters are all the same no matter where they are based, which is precisely the point you were refuting earlier by characterising one set of supporters as somehow superior to others (you wouldn’t understand because you don’t follow a Sydney club- you follow a plastic club) )

The only thing that matters ultimately is how many supporters you have and whether you are financially viable. That’s it. If a club relocates because they can get more supporters and pay their bills which is what happened to the Lions and the Swans then that is ultimately a good decision. It’s not likely to happen but if it were to happen, inductive reasoning suggests that it I should highly possible that it would work

Another point which I found interesting is not trying to compete with the AFL. Why do some supporters want us to be second fiddle? Even if we never catch up to AFL shouldn’t we at least try? You shouldn’t run a business against your main competitor and not try to outdo them - it seems incredibly defeatist