The Bears

[T-Boon]

Southern Sharks is the go.
9 games Adelaide and 4 games Shark Park (give them a bonus home game).

 

[MugaB]

Southern Sharks is the go.
9 games Adelaide and 4 games Shark Park (give them a bonus home game).

Really i just wrote about how valuable they are in comparison to the other sydney teams... its like talking to a brick these forums... either way doesnt matter, no ones going anywhere, even if i think the tigers and rooster should vamoose to Perth and Adelaide... and PNG will be no.18, which will flair more debate about lack of WA and SA presence... the circle jerk continues

 

[T-Boon]

Really i just wrote about how valuable they are in comparison to the other sydney teams... its like talking to a brick these forums... either way doesnt matter, no ones going anywhere, even if i think the tigers and rooster should vamoose to Perth and Adelaide... and PNG will be no.18, which will flair more debate about lack of WA and SA presence... the circle jerk continues

I read and rejected what you wrote. It was a bad point and deserved to get ignored.
The NRL could dangle a good carrot to get a club to relocate. Extra salary cap, extra home games (at the extreme end 12 extra home games haha). Surely if NRL offered a deal where a club takes 8 games to Perth or Adelaide and get to keep 8 at their existing home ground it would taken up.

 

[T-Boon]

...

 

[Colk]

Mugab I said that the Tigers had the option to move down to Campbelltown/MacArthur not that they definitely will. 20 years ago I would have said that was stupid however with the NSW government’s plan to introduce a new CBD called Bradfield - this is where the Tigers have the chance to attach themselves to a corporate centre and population base big enough to have a financially strong club - your side will also benefit from this as well.

The problem is essentially clubs like Cronulla and Manly (and Redcliffe for that matter hence why you have this decision to call them the Dolphins to try and appease all and sundry) are in a poor location to service a major city. Perhaps it is in part an offshoot of the Sydney competition and the model of direct club investment into juniors but generally speaking you should put a side in an area that is the most accessible for the most amount of supporters and most accessible for the sport and corporates to intertwine


The problem with Cronulla, Manly and Penrith (although your club has been lucky that they are now smack bang in the biggest growth area in Sydney) is that they are hard to get to for the majority of Sydney (which has fairly direct correlation to attendances - Cronulla and Manly games are often the lowest attended in Sydney), they are too far away for corporates to invest in (Cronulla has often struggled to gain good corporate support), their facilities are often substandard compared to the rest of the competition (why would the government invest in a stadium who will be used by only one tennant as opposed to several in the inner city) and their support becomes essentially only in that suburb as opposed to more citywide.

You only have to look at the teams in Sydney with the greatest support or financial strength (Souths, Parra, Roosters) or reference the AFL sides in Melbourne to underline my point

 

[Colk]

And the situation with North Sydney is possibly an argument for distancing clubs from direct junior development. Whatever your feelings are about North Sydney being cut, the worst part of the situation has been that the Roosters and Manly have largely been prevented from expanding into areas like North Sydney and CC because of junior links.

It’s interesting. In hindsight, considering their proximity to the CBD and North Sydney CBD is quite ok also and the fact that the amount of wealth has increased dramatically over the past 20 years, perhaps Norths should have stayed ahead of other clubs in Sydney.

 

[siv]

Adelaide and Perth are the best candidates for a relocation

Easts have strong support in Adelaide and a ready-made Melbourne rivalry. And they could still play 3 to 6 heritage games in Sydney. And they are close to the SA state colours

With Wests-Tigers not wanting to embrace Campbelltown, it wont take much for the Dogs to takeover

So if Wests adopt the original canary yellow Balmain rather than the more modern orange, they become a fit in both name and colours for WA

 

[bad boy bubby]

Ok Bad boy bunny good points.

The reason why I would pick the Sharks is for a couple of reasons

1. I think Sydney has too many clubs, I really do. There is a great lot of tradition that you want to keep in the game but having nine clubs negatively affects the viability of the each club. You only have to look at the last 30-40 years and the amount of the clubs in Sydney that have collapsed/merged and even now at the attendances you get in Sydney compared to other areas to also come to that conclusion. Couple this saturation with the areas that you could put sides in (Perth, a couple of more Qld sides, Adelaide, NZ 2 etc) and you have a dilemma because it is not feasible to have a 22-23 team competition so you have to make a choice. You either keep a predominantly NSW competition and essentially keep getting whomped by the AFL as they pour more and more money or you try and grow the game

2. If I draw a map of Sydney, most other clubs have an option to expand their brand through as other area or by the natural growth of that area. For example Penrith can expand westwards, Parramatta can adjoin Hills district, Dragons can take in the South Coast, Tigers/Canterbury can go further south into Liverpool/MacArthur ManlyRoosters can fight over the North Shore/Central Coast - I don’t want to sound harsh but where can Cronulla go? Where can they grow? Even if I look at population/growth statistics it’s not growing at the same rate as other areas of Sydney

3. You have the lowest supporter base in Sydney (outside of maybe Penrith although that is questionable) So if you have to move a club from Sydney wouldn’t you move the club that has the least amount of supporters?

4. The argument against relocation or any other rationalisation measure is based on the amount of supporters you lose. Nobody ever argues the amount of supporters you can gain. If you look at the examples of the Swans or the Lions their supporters have probably doubled. If you moved the Sharks or most other Sydney sides and plonked them in Perth and Adelaide which have populations of 2.5 million and 1.5 million, are you seriously suggesting that you wouldn’t increase the amount of Sharks supporters. It would be difficult in the short term for sure but you wouldn’t be worse off then you are now? You would have better finances, better access to corporate sponsorship and more supporters

Let me say first off, I do appreciate the way you address this. You are talking with your thoughts without any childish garb.
I didnt finish work until midnight last night, and I'm off again soon, so my brain is a bit fried. I will try and answer at more length in the next couple of days.
If you are moving all these clubs about, out of their traditional areas, well then you may as well give the Sharks the whole St. George area, and then go all the way to Newtown. Our two clubs have been playing together for a long while now and the Saints junior league is a shambles. We may as well take that area over.
I am being facetious here so please any Saints fan dont take these comments to heart, there is a reason behind them.
The Liverpool used to be a Parramatta foothold, definitely not a Tigers area, maybe a little bit Bankstown. Point being, times and population change in Sydney.
if St. George were to move permanently to Wollongong, why couldnt the Sharks just expand into that area??
Not that we need to, as I said, our junior numbers are way up on every other area in Sydney except Penrith. You do understand that means we are a Rugby League stronghold compared to all these other areas, one that will be lost if you move the team.

I've tried looking up the Shane Richardson report to the NRL a few years back, I cant find it.
Wasn't one of his ideas was to get rid of the traditional areas and create new ones in the country areas?? or something like that?
Lets just say the Sharks take over from Berry onwards down the South Coast, that is not the Illawarra and having grown up down there I can guarantee you the Sharks are very supported down there as a helluva lot of ex Shire residents have always moved there. We wont be greedy, just from Berry to Bega will do.
How does that idea fit your proposals??

 

[LeagueXIII]

Actually bringing back the Bears they would be alot better run and would grow in strength just as South Sydney have done. The Bears are no longer run by Akka Forbes theY'd get the grant from the NRL....the goodwill would be massive...no brainer really.
Stand aside......

 

[parrawentyfan]

There are certainly different ways you can cut the 5 eastern clubs while keeping them all in NSW (ie without massive disruption to existing fanbases)

A:
Dragons to Wollongong and South Coast
Sharks take over St George area
Roosters take over North Sydney
Rabbits take southern side of harbour
Manly to Central Coast

B:
Dragons to Wollongong and South Coast
Sharks stay in their patch
Roosters stay in their patch and take Rabbits area
Rabbits take St George area (it is Southern Sydney after all)
Manly expand to take North Shore but less of an identity on Central Coast

 

[Perth Red]

Bears proposed venues:

Gosford 20k
NS Oval 16k
Dubbo 12k
wagga Wagga 10k
Coffs 10k
Tamworth 11k

 

[Perth Red]

Bears officials met with the NRL earlier this year to flag their hopes of re-entering the competition and North Sydney chairman Daniel Dickson told Big Sports Breakfast the idea of re-introducing the Bears brand into the NRL landscape was "well-received".

"That was more about just letting them know we're here," said Dickson referring to a meeting with NRL CEO Andrew Abdo and ARLC chairman Peter V'landys back in May.

"I was very mindful of the process at the time, that (deciding) the 17th team was always a very difficult and drawn-out process.
"This wasn't to agitate around that, it was just to let them know if the opportunity for growth comes up, the Bears are here and waiting.

"It was well-received."

Dickson said the Bears bid has already received private-ownership interest, while it would also be supported by North Sydney Leagues Club, who would act as their main sponsor.

While the club would be based at traditional home ground North Sydney Oval, the plan would be to play five to six games there a year, supplementing that with a handful of games across regional areas of New South Wales.

"When you look at what COVID's done it's driven the game to the regions and rural parts of New South Wales and we've always been a team of the people," Dickson said.

"We've targetted Coffs Harbour and Tamworth, two amazing supports of rugby league, Wagga Wagga, Dubbo, the Central Coast... these places have thousands of people participating in rugby league.

"We're not going to go there and be everyone's team but at the same time by taking rugby league to them, you would have a greater affiliation to the club that comes to your town regularly.

"They're the heartlands of rugby league in the country. We just want to make sure we support that."

Despite playing in the reserve grade competition, where they're a feeder club for the Sydney Roosters, the Bears remain one of rugby league's truly iconic brands.

Following the announcement on their hopes of being readmitted into the competition, the club also unveiled a new logo.

Dickson believes the Bears brand is well set up to be an instant success back in the top flight, and will generate monumental interest for the game as a whole.

"The thing for us is you can't produce 113 years of history in one or two seasons, that's what we bring to the game," he added.

"It's well supported, it's a heritage brand and foundation club. The eyeballs will be on the game if the Bears are playing that's for sure."

As for timeframe?

"I would think in 2025 it should be considered given the 17th team is starting in 2023. I just think it makes sense," he said.

"Our fans are ready."

https://www.nospam47.com/au/league/...ived-says-chairman/1qh8d2qwstiso17oqhgxgh8ixf

 

[MugaB]

Bears proposed venues:

Gosford 20k
NS Oval 16k
Dubbo 12k
wagga Wagga 10k
Coffs 10k
Tamworth 11k

If it were to go ahead, which it shouldn't, gosford surely should be home base, and play atleast 6 home games there, NSO is not suitable nowadays

 

[Colk]

That’s ok bad boy bubby. I don’t think it is hard to address these things with a certain sense of delicacy and diplomacy, as rugby league is pretty central to people’s lives and emotional investment.

I’ll give you some insight into my club Canberra. I remember there were talks about relocating the Raiders about 15 years to Central Coast. Raiders have always had plenty of money but obviously they have struggled because they’re from Canberra and they’ve often struggled to attract players.

You had a lot people in Canberra understandingly against it. I was against it mainly because of the location (Central Coast is no bigger than Canberra). There were also other negatives like AFL perhaps putting in a side there if the Raiders left and not having the option to still see your side. So for any regional club to move it’s essentially goodbye to RL in every shape and form. Nevertheless, I welcomed the debate in some sense. What’s more important: the brand or the area? For me, it is definitely the former. Would the club moving to somewhere like Brisbane and Perth and having a much better chance of continued success than in Canberra satiate our supporters? It would be very split. It still could happen again particularly if Canberra doesn’t grow as expected

I think in a lot of ways we are not in a dire situation but I am a strong supporter of putting in a team in Adelaide and Perth and other areas. Yes it would be difficult (like a lot of things in life) but the only reason (or the major reason anyway) is that they had the confidence and cajones to take on Sydney and Brisbane. There are only so many times you can draw from the same well for RL so if we want to remain competitive we have to be as bold as they are

 

[MugaB]

That’s ok bad boy bubby. I don’t think it is hard to address these things with a certain sense of delicacy and diplomacy, as rugby league is pretty central to people’s lives and emotional investment.

I’ll give you some insight into my club Canberra. I remember there were talks about relocating the Raiders about 15 years to Central Coast. Raiders have always had plenty of money but obviously they have struggled because they’re from Canberra and they’ve often struggled to attract players.

You had a lot people in Canberra understandingly against it. I was against it mainly because of the location (Central Coast is no bigger than Canberra). There were also other negatives like AFL perhaps putting in a side there if the Raiders left and not having the option to still see your side. So for any regional club to move it’s essentially goodbye to RL in every shape and form. Nevertheless, I welcomed the debate in some sense. What’s more important: the brand or the area? For me, it is definitely the former. Would the club moving to somewhere like Brisbane and Perth and having a much better chance of continued success than in Canberra satiate our supporters? It would be very split. It still could happen again particularly if Canberra doesn’t grow as expected

I think in a lot of ways we are not in a dire situation but I am a strong supporter of putting in a team in Adelaide and Perth and other areas. Yes it would be difficult (like a lot of things in life) but the only reason (or the major reason anyway) is that they had the confidence and cajones to take on Sydney and Brisbane. There are only so many times you can draw from the same well for RL so if we want to remain competitive we have to be as bold as they are

I have bold abs, rock hard 6 pack

 

[Perth Red]

If it were to go ahead, which it shouldn't, gosford surely should be home base, and play atleast 6 home games there, NSO is not suitable nowadays

Would a half arsed based club in gosford be able to engage the fans there? The warriors crowds there were woeful when based there. Would a part time bears be any more engaging for the natives? would be interested to see their business plan playing in such small amateur grounds, I’m guessing they are banking on the councils paying them to play in these regional towns every year?

 

[LeagueXIII]

Would a half arsed based club in gosford be able to engage the fans there? The warriors crowds there were woeful when based there. Would a part time bears be any more engaging for the natives? would be interested to see their business plan playing in such small amateur grounds, I’m guessing they are banking on the councils paying them to play in these regional towns every year?

Yes it would considering it's on the doorstep of where the majority of Bears fans live. Berowra is only 35mins away.

Who knows once the Bears are back in, maybe down the track they move fulltime to Gosford.

Anything can happen.

Did Souths keep playing in Redfern and the SFS?

 

[Colk]

I have bold abs, rock hard 6 pack

I am very happy for you Mugab. You obviously got in before I edited it

 

[MugaB]

Would a half arsed based club in gosford be able to engage the fans there? The warriors crowds there were woeful when based there. Would a part time bears be any more engaging for the natives? would be interested to see their business plan playing in such small amateur grounds, I’m guessing they are banking on the councils paying them to play in these regional towns every year?

Little bit different having a home team, that represents you then a warriors side who was only there due to covid reasons, if it your own team, there will be more engagement from the bears to solidify them as the local team, even if they are traveling

 

[Colk]

Yes it would considering it's on the doorstep of where the majority of Bears fans live. Berowra is only 35mins away.

Who knows once the Bears are back in, maybe down the track they move fulltime to Gosford.

Anything can happen.

Did Souths keep playing in Redfern and the SFS?

League XIII the question you have to ask yourself with any of these bids is what is the best scenario and worst case scenario and how it effects the other teams.

The best case scenario is you re-engage (their words not mine) with the quote/unquote 200k odd supporters. It is not a bad starting point perhaps but they would be, if not the lowest supported, clearly near the bottom. Where would they get their other supporters from in order to become like South Sydney? 100% from other clubs. A person based in North Sydney and CC have definitely heard of RL and have ample opportunity to be active supporters of 10 other NRL teams. So in essence what you would be doing in order for them to be successful and well supported would be to weaken 10 other clubs. Taking supporters from them at a time when active supporters numbers for these teams need to improve.

Then you add in corporates/sponsorship and the fact that some Sydney clubs already struggle financially - how would adding another side to a congested marketplace help this situation?

Thirdly, if the argument is that there are droves of Bears supporters that now support AFL and Rugby Union (which is debatable) who are now not going to support these codes as soon as the Bears come back in, then it needs to stop. This argument also came up with the Lions and the second Brisbane side and it is something which was as stupid then as it is now. There are a lot of people in Australia who support multiple sports.

So in essence what are you adding here? You are not adding much money and you are not adding much new support, in fact you are probably cannabilising existing support and sponsorship.

At least with Adelaide and Perth you are adding new active supporters i.e. people who are unable to attend games or buy memberships etc. Yes, the support might be low at the beginning but you know there are people from NSW and Qld who live in these areas who would like to go to a game and support a club and there are probably others who would like to follow another sport because they are just sports mad. AFL realised this thirty years ago and it is about time RL woke up and did the same