The Bears

[T-Boon]

The North Sydney Bears would have survived, and Penrith Panthers been left behind, had the Bears not been in debt (supposedly $4 million). What a forward thinking decision that would have been.

That would have been great.
The Panthers deserved to get cut or relocated for being super league scum.
The junior base would have been taken over by Parra.
And the Northern Suburbs would have had a more sensibly located team than Manly which is a stupid location for the only Northern Suburbs team. Cutting North Sydney and Souths seemed like a "great idea" cooked up by the Swans.

 

[The_Frog]

The Panthers deserved to get cut or relocated for being super league scum.

Probably what saved them. It is, after all, why the club approached SL, because they believed with good cause that the utterly stupid ARL wanted rid of them.If Souths got back, Penrith would have too. Rather fitting that these two met in the GF just a few short weeks ago. Goes to show how f**ked up the ARL and early NRL's vision of the game's future really was. To be honest I doubt it has improved a great deal from that day to this.

 

[MugaB]

That would have been great.
The Panthers deserved to get cut or relocated for being super league scum.
The junior base would have been taken over by Parra.
And the Northern Suburbs would have had a more sensibly located team than Manly which is a stupid location for the only Northern Suburbs team. Cutting North Sydney and Souths seemed like a "great idea" cooked up by the Swans.

Here we go scummy penrith again...
Hey listen here t-boon ive been advocating PNG to get in as the 18th bid, and the bears can go fk themselves, and they are no better than any of the rest of the rabble in the cut throat sydney clubs, they are just as bad as manly in regards to the mess or lack of NS presence, the whole critera BS was rubbish to begin with... only set up for rationalization sake.. after 6 merged and souffs extincted, the ARL could care less, they had the number and spread, if they wanted NS back they could have handed them their license soon after souths got theirs ... but they didn't... penrith, manly, cronulla, these are teams that are looked upon as scum, and regardless of winning or not, always getting spat on... to many souffs, maggers and pawwa fans all hating on other teams thats half the issue in sydney,

 

[Captain Apollo]

Or if Melbourne and Brisbane both have a bad season, ratings would pummet

Exactly.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

The Bears are that desperate Ukrainian mail order bride sending out emails trying to get any one to pick them up.

 

[MugaB]

Exactly.

Relegation would ONLY work if the competition was a Sydney based comp...


...Watch out here comes the tin foil hats

 

[Captain Apollo]

The following opinion piece was published by the Sydney Morning Herald (source: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/be...ars-gave-up-on-nrl-dream-20211028-p593zy.html) -

OPINION​

Bearer of bad news: Why North Sydney will never return to the NRL​

Phil Lutton​

Sports reporter
October 29, 2021 — 9.00am

The Bears are dead. Long live the Bears. Efforts to return the fabled red-and-black jerseys to the NRL are a Cinderella story that should remain in the confines of a fairytale book.

Expansion fever has gripped rugby league since “the Dolphins”, which sounds a bit like “Prince” or “Ronaldo” without any geographical identifier, were given the golden ticket for the next licence.

They will enter the league in 2023 with Wayne Bennett as coach, a fertile recruiting ground and access to an enormous market that has been starved of a second team since the Crushers arrived, then departed, with all the momentum of Garrick Morgan in open space.
They will work. The Bears will not, no matter the sentimental value behind the name or their former greats, of which there is much and many. Almost every rugby league fan had a soft spot for North Sydney - was there anything better than Martin Bella in full flight? - but nostalgia won’t pay the bills in the NRL.

Sydney doesn’t need another team​

Let’s start with the obvious. The Harbour City is already a saturated market when it comes to rugby league, to the point where relocation occasionally pops up in the debate about how to ensure the viability of the competition. Like the Dolphins, North Sydney want to be known as “the Bears” in a bid to appeal to a wider audience, although like the Dolphins, everybody knows where the Bears belong, no matter how many games you play in regional NSW.

Simply saying you will be a “team of the people” doesn’t actually make you a team of the people and the vast majority of football fans didn’t come down in the last shower. Should the Bears make a return, their core market would be current fans of North Sydney, which campaigns as a feeder club to the Roosters. Having a club disappear from the top tier is a bitter pill and many Bears fans simply aren’t invested in the NRL week-to-week.

Sadly, the time for a revival has come and gone.

The NRL wants fresh pastures​

The ink had barely dried on the reveal of the NRL’s 17th team when speculation began over its 18th side. That’s a nice even number that avoids the need for a weekly bye and crucially for broadcasters, means more content across the course of a season.

The Bears were quick to put up their hands and remind the game of their ambitions. “The thing for us is you can’t produce 113 years of history in one or two seasons, that’s what we bring to the game,” Daniel Dickson, the Bears chairman, said. “It’s well supported, it’s a heritage brand and foundation club. The eyeballs will be on the game if the Bears are playing, that’s for sure.”

But if more expansion was to eventuate, areas like Perth, a second team in New Zealand, or even a fifth team in Queensland, somewhere in the vast stretch between Redcliffe and Townsville, would be the focus.

As seen with the 17th team in Brisbane, broadcasters and the NRL are driven by the desire to increase the overall number of eyeballs watching the product. That translates to more broadcast revenue for the game, and another Sydney team won’t achieve that, particularly one right in the middle of Sydney.

Romance aside, the reality is that the North Sydney Bears have a far better chance at a revival by moving across the ditch and becoming the North Auckland Bears.

There’s no rush to add an 18th side​

Much of the debate about adding the Dolphins was whether there was enough playing depth to cover 16 clubs, let alone an extra at the table. Given the game has just emerged from a season of historic disparity, it will be worth taking a breath and seeing how they fare before hitting the go button again. Granted, a healthy portion of the lopsided scores were at least partly caused by maddening rule changes that were rushed through and had unintended side effects. But if there really aren’t enough players to go around, that part of the garden needs to be tended first.

One-size-fits-all teams never work​

Just as the Dolphins have been rightly criticised for watering down their history and heritage to try and have “wider appeal” to some fantasy market of would-be supporters just waiting for the right fish to swim past, the Bears stand to lose everything and gain little if they really did want to return as a semi-baseless entity with home games spread across North Sydney Oval, major stadiums and regional NSW. While she has few rivals as far as pure beauty, North Sydney Oval is not fit-for-purpose as a modern sporting venue these days. It could only be used sparingly, for nostalgia’s sake alone.

And for historic clubs like the Bears, it should be all or nothing if they were to make a return to the big league. Alas, for the famous old club, no matter the faith and history and even financial backing, they are simply based in the wrong place.

 

[Captain Apollo]

You worry a relocation would be a current Wests Tigers scenario, be all to everyone, and end up as nothing..
I've always had the opinion that the roosters would be the perfect relocation, they are a super successful organization that has bugger all room in sydney, but makes it all work, picked up and plonked to become a foreign one team city boasting over 1.5 million population, screaming for representation like a Perth or Adelaide, the right club can flourish.. the idea that a failed sydney club has to demote or to be moved on to an expansion area, make a relocation more of a threat or a punishment... when really if you want you're own space as a club this could be the best thing for a well run club..
Not every club can afford to be out of their region, NFL seem to pick up teams fairly often, the rams and raiders etc

Yeah, and moving the Roosters to Perth or Adelaide I'm sure Easts Leagues Club at Bondi Junction would still be willing to tip in the couple of million they do each year right?!

You are being unrealistic. It would be similar if you moved the Panthers to one of those locales and expected Panthers Leagues to keep chipping in money to the foot club - it just would not happen. As such the financial clout which underpins the football team disappears. Oh and it would not be suddenly replaced overnight be greater membership sales - those take time to grow.

 

[MugaB]

The following opinion piece was published by the Sydney Morning Herald (source: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/be...ars-gave-up-on-nrl-dream-20211028-p593zy.html) -

This guy just shat in the picanic basket hey boo-boo

 

[Colk]

Exactly Mugab. Some Sydney clubs have a big area to play with and/or in an area that will continue to grow whilst others are wedged because of their own intransigence or just being a bad location. For example if the TIgers just bite the bullet and go down the South West Sydney there’s an area that is as big as Penrith and more likely much bigger in the future. Manly have the potential to expand in North Sydney/CC rather then being hemmed in at Manly, Dragons can continue to work and invest in the gong/south coast

Roosters would be a good choice based on their reach. They also have a low supporter base considering the amount of success but they are in the wealthiest part of Sydney and they have the money.

Cronulla is the one to do a big move. It would be ideal for them if they were to embrace it.

 

[MugaB]

Exactly Mugab. Some Sydney clubs have a big area to play with and/or in an area that will continue to grow whilst others are wedged because of their own intransigence or just being a bad location. For example if the TIgers just bite the bullet and go down the South West Sydney there’s an area that is as big as Penrith and more likely much bigger in the future. Manly have the potential to expand in North Sydney/CC rather then being hemmed in at Manly, Dragons can continue to work and invest in the gong/south coast

Roosters would be a good choice based on their reach. They also have a low supporter base considering the amount of success but they are in the wealthiest part of Sydney and they have the money.

Cronulla is the one to do a big move. It would be ideal for them if they were to embrace it.

The richer clubs and well maintained could afford the move,
cronulla is another "manly" waiting to happen, its not going anywhere, they have roits gor a reason... and Stgeorge being in the gong means they aren't fulltime in the sharks way...thats a good thing... this is the same setup that the bears would have had if they had gotten to gosford in time, more games away from Sydney, but still support the inagural area...
Roosters have 4 suburbs of space... and souths are growing west of their area, Roosters aren't getting any bigger or more successful than they are now, a few lean years and they'll be look upon at as useless, at least most other clubs boast large junior comps and value, roosters don't add they minus,= sponsors,juniors, talent from all other clubs

 

[The Great Dane]

Fair enough. Would you be personally in favour of mergers (which I’m definitely not a fan of) or demotion to the NSW Cup. I can think of 2 perhaps even 3 Sydney clubs that have limited room for growth due to geography and other circumstances and about 3 or 4 markets that don’t have a club and would be highly profitable and beneficial for the NRL

It is all hypothetical though as it will not likely happen

I've kind of been though it all with the Bears. First we were relocating, then the club merged, then we were forcibly demoted, and IMO being demoted was by far the best of the three options.

The only problem with it is the club loses a bunch of exposure which makes it much harder to support the club, and it becomes hard to follow them as a result, especially if you live outside of their region like I do.

If the NRL could help negotiate broadcasting deals for the NSW and Qld Cup's where all their matches are broadcast somewhere at a reasonable standard that is easily accessible to any that want to watch then it'd almost be like nothing changed. I also think there's an audience that would be interested in a product that caters to that niche, and reckon that traditional clubs, with some regional clubs and new faces whom can't support an NRL side thrown in, would do relatively well.

I mean who wouldn't want to watch Norths vs Balmain at Leichhardt on a Sunday morning/arvo before the NRL, or Newtown vs e.g. a reborn Bathurst Penguins on a Monday night. You could even use the league as a test run for expansion teams like Perth, Adelaide, etc. It'll never happen though.

 

[bad boy bubby]

I notice a few of you are ear marking Cronulla for relocation.
I'm a Sharks supporter, but I'm going to try and reason something out here objectively.
You do realise that the Cronulla Sutherland now have the second most junior players, men, women, tag, touch, under the NRL umbrella, behind Penrith?
If you want to only include men/boy rugby league player we have the third most behind Penrith and Parra.
If you were to move the Sharks the whole area would be lost. We will not fall in line and automatically go with those Goons. The people of the area would go the North Shore route and follow the AFL or Rugby, or even more likely, the soccer.
The Sharks have great junior development. Yes we have been a basket case in the past, but it's changed now.
Reassured, if the Sharks are relocated the area will be lost.
Just a thought for some of you. And I do respect your opinions.

 

[MugaB]

I notice a few of you are ear marking Cronulla for relocation.
I'm a Sharks supporter, but I'm going to try and reason something out here objectively.
You do realise that the Cronulla Sutherland now have the second most junior players, men, women, tag, touch, under the NRL umbrella, behind Penrith?
If you want to only include men/boy rugby league player we have the third most behind Penrith and Parra.
If you were to move the Sharks the whole area would be lost. We will not fall in line and automatically go with those Goons. The people of the area would go the North Shore route and follow the AFL or Rugby, or even more likely, the soccer.
The Sharks have great junior development. Yes we have been a basket case in the past, but it's changed now.
Reassured, if the Sharks are relocated the area will be lost.
Just a thought for some of you. And I do respect your opinions.

Agreed with all of this, no one looks at development clubs, all they see is pins to put on a map... there are reason we have the clubs we have, strong brands, large participation, key areas unrepresented...
But all they see is a few clubs too close together, and count population size via google... please, you only need 2-3% of your populations region or area to fill a 25k stadium, there are too many casual fans that don't buy in all the way, we need to tip them over, not relocate existing strong brands... i mean if a club wants to move on its own yep then fine.. but the whole discussion of NRL shifting teams is moot...
But as far as cronulla, i feel they should take 2 annual games to fiji, and make their remaining 10 more valuable, Penrith do this regarding Bathurst, but only 1 game, as we pack out most games (barring covid restrictions)

 

[Perth Red]

Fascinates me we can’t hold Sydney without an nrl club in every suburb yet brisbane has thrived in jnr development for decades with just one club?

 

[MugaB]

Fascinates me we can’t hold Sydney without an nrl club in every suburb yet brisbane has thrived in jnr development for decades with just one club?

Its amazing you're still here, and theres no perth club

 

[Colk]

Ok Bad boy bunny good points.

The reason why I would pick the Sharks is for a couple of reasons

1. I think Sydney has too many clubs, I really do. There is a great lot of tradition that you want to keep in the game but having nine clubs negatively affects the viability of the each club. You only have to look at the last 30-40 years and the amount of the clubs in Sydney that have collapsed/merged and even now at the attendances you get in Sydney compared to other areas to also come to that conclusion. Couple this saturation with the areas that you could put sides in (Perth, a couple of more Qld sides, Adelaide, NZ 2 etc) and you have a dilemma because it is not feasible to have a 22-23 team competition so you have to make a choice. You either keep a predominantly NSW competition and essentially keep getting whomped by the AFL as they pour more and more money or you try and grow the game

2. If I draw a map of Sydney, most other clubs have an option to expand their brand through as other area or by the natural growth of that area. For example Penrith can expand westwards, Parramatta can adjoin Hills district, Dragons can take in the South Coast, Tigers/Canterbury can go further south into Liverpool/MacArthur ManlyRoosters can fight over the North Shore/Central Coast - I don’t want to sound harsh but where can Cronulla go? Where can they grow? Even if I look at population/growth statistics it’s not growing at the same rate as other areas of Sydney

3. You have the lowest supporter base in Sydney (outside of maybe Penrith although that is questionable) So if you have to move a club from Sydney wouldn’t you move the club that has the least amount of supporters?

4. The argument against relocation or any other rationalisation measure is based on the amount of supporters you lose. Nobody ever argues the amount of supporters you can gain. If you look at the examples of the Swans or the Lions their supporters have probably doubled. If you moved the Sharks or most other Sydney sides and plonked them in Perth and Adelaide which have populations of 2.5 million and 1.5 million, are you seriously suggesting that you wouldn’t increase the amount of Sharks supporters. It would be difficult in the short term for sure but you wouldn’t be worse off then you are now? You would have better finances, better access to corporate sponsorship and more supporters

 

[Colk]

Its amazing you're still here, and theres no perth club

He has got a point though. Why does Sydney need 9 sides and in the places that they are in Sydney (which often don’t make sense) when there are whole swathes of the country or countries that either don’t have a team or are underrepresented.

 

[Perth Red]

Its amazing you're still here, and theres no perth club

That’s because I’m first and foremost a rugby league fan. All my life, club or no club. Not like others who jump ship to another code because they can’t watch their club in the top tier. I supported my club through two relegations, still went home and away in the third division. Not fair weather like so many.

ps instead of getting personal, again, how about answering my comment. Why does Sydney need 9 clubs, some are now saying ten!, to keep jnrs playing rl when brisbane has managed it with 1?

 

[MugaB]

That’s because I’m first and foremost a rugby league fan. All my life, club or no club. Not like others who jump ship to another code because they can’t watch their club in the top tier. I supported my club through two relegations, still went home and away in the third division. Not fair weather like so many.

ps instead of getting personal, again, how about answering my comment. Why does Sydney need 9 clubs, some are now saying ten!, to keep jnrs playing rl when brisbane has managed it with 1?

Managed it with one? There is 3 qld sides, not one, you talk about Brisbane as some city that is successful, Basketcase Broncos, they are overwhelmed with choice, so much so, that sam walker, reece walsh have to go elsewhere, that doesn't really happen in sydney, and Brisbane they already had BRL as long as the NSWRL existed, and still have Norths devils, Easts Tigers, Wynumm Seagulls etc all who could have been in the NRL, (or still might TeHe ....Dolphins)
What you want is an A-LEAGUE soccer setup, thats the pom mentality (yes I went personal) most expansionist do... they want every dot on a map pinned, i agree that Perth and Adelaide need reds and rams in the NRL, but not at the cost of existing brands, cronulla has the Southern area of Sydney, where do they grow?, well they don't really need to, in time souths have moved inner west and Stgeorge have gone south coast, the shire boasts a massive junior catchment, because of that, and if they are looking to add extra value, have a few home games in Fiji, under pinning the silktails...
Sydney is growing and there are too many inner city teams, not cronulla thats far southern sydney, i live around north rocks, its about 10min drive to hombush stadium, yet it takes over an hour to get to Sutherland, thats not an area too close.

As far as the need to spread out teams this i agree on, Colk pointed out that Bulldogs and Tigers will be moving south west due to growing area.... BUT when? Bulldogs will be in Liverpool yes and will share this stadium with A-league Bulls, so why do we need tigers there... answer is we Don't.... just another inner city team that has great number of "supporters"
We overlook what is working, just coz of the supporter bases, but this club could do more than plonk itsef in concord... you really want to move a team?
Look at the tigers, who "represent" campbelltown but don't really give SFA about the area... at least dragons train/play in Wollongong... which is why i like Cronulla where they are, theyve become a development club..
Im not shifting blame, its just the same analogy as the bears hording junior catchments in NS, regarding the tigers and macarthur area.
Also Roosters cant grow either btw, going north is a fantasy, i would like to believe it Colk, but reality is the bears have the area at junior level, so manly is also stuck, but atleast they have the option of a handful of central coast games.. so too roosters but that's not going to happen coz 1. Politis rules the game at EVERY level. 2.moving roosters away from a newly Built SFS means there is a lack of a fulltime NRL tennant... but Rabbitohs can cover the SFS, again 2 teams in one area.

Roosters and Tigers, these are relocations that will guarantee sydney is not underrepresented and also still covers all bases in terms of juniors/catchments/sponsorships open
Dragons are already south coast really, Panthers is fast becoming country NSW, and basically borders it, leaves eels, rabbits, seaeagles, bulldogs, and sharks,
Thats 5 sydney teams very spread out