The block plays

[ALSGI]

Block plays are a blight on the game. Even when they come off they are boring to watch in my opinion.
I want sides, especially ours, to have their own look.

Thinking back to how we were in the Browny days, it was such entertaining footy. Granted we had a better backline then, but we can't compete with the Storm and Roosters playing their game.

I'd look closely at our options at hooker. We need more spark, hey I'd even settle for another kicking option out of there. Watching Damien Cook and that real threat out of dummy half shows what we lack. It's not just what he does, but the time he affords his halves by defences second guessing him and compressing. We don't force near enough decisions from defensive lines, especially playing as before the line as we do. It's one left field decision away from turning around I reckon. I'd love to see Field play at hooker from the bench. His defence may not be up to it, but only one way to fix that .

Had to read this 3 times before I was sure I agreed. More like this would be good Gitano rather than some of your other crap.

 

[Crush]

Reading Crush's response gives an insight into the mentality of some of us fans.
The club through some, not so clever spin doctoring, continue to provide glimpses of hope and optimism in order to justify and rationalize McGregor's appointment/extension and his performance.
By recruiting Hunt and Graham (which was a jaggy fluke due to Canterbury's salary cap woes) they are conveniently feeding that hope and optimism while at the same time deflecting attention away from our coaching malaise.
If Crush is still waiting to see how things pan out mid way through the 2018 season then it will be too late as it was in 2016 and 2017.
I totally agree that Young and Hornby are part of the problem and should also go..
All involved have been given plenty of opportunities to improve things and it just hasn't happened.
A few recruits will not make some magical difference.
My simple litmus test is to ask whether any of our other NRL counterparts would tolerate this situation?
Given that high profile coaches such as Hasler and Maguire were not immune to getting the sack not to mention Henry, the installation of Cleary, the coaching changes all over the place. what can you say about our situation?
We are all still waiting around for McGregor, the anointed one, to serve his apprenticeship and become a first grade caliber coach.
So from Bush footy, to reserve grade middle of the table to FG middle of the table or worse.
What is there to be optimistic about??
I am just seething will frustration at his ridiculous situation and it is ashamed that loyal supporters like Crush are getting sucked in to believe that success is just around the corner with McGregor at the helm.

Mate I hope we have a mutual respect here and you are not painting me to be some uneducated easily lead fool?
Nobody is sucking me into anything.

 

[gitano]

Had to read this 3 times before I was sure I agreed. More like this would be good Gitano rather than some of your other crap.

Haha mate I like Euan and probably got the fishing rod out a bit. I'm not a complete knob

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Mate I hope we have a mutual respect here and you are not painting me to be some uneducated easily lead fool?
Nobody is sucking me into anything.

Relax champ, take the post at face value - there is nothing to read between the lines.

 

[BennyV]

I'm going to buck the trend here - I believe the 'block play' and other monstrously drilled set plays absolutely have a place in the game. I love seeing off the cuff stuff from individual players and teams playing on a bit of instinct but there's a reason that doesnt happen too often - it either requires extreme individual brilliance OR at the very least, several players to see the same thing and have an understanding of what each other will be doing. It's why the Big 3 at Melbourne are so f**king good - if Smith sees an opportunity, he is confident that Slater and Cronk see the same thing and will put themselves on the spot.

But I got just as much of a boner every time we swung the ball to the left during the 2010 season. I was in awe watching us systematically dismantling teams and strangling them to a standstill. And as much as I hate every other team in the comp, I really enjoy seeing well structured game plans and plays executed well. I think there was a Cowboys play last year that involved a wraparound, 2 block runners and Morgan hitting a hole and I deadset rewound it to watch several times over. Nothing instinctive or off-the-cuff about it but it was super impressive.

The problem with our 'block play' is that there's little-to-no variation on it, and it seems to be the backbone of our structure so much that we spend 3-4 tackles of the set getting ready for it. That and it's clunky AF (has been ever since Price took over). In 2010, we set up for the block play every set, but Hornby often hit Creagh on the angled run, or he'd chip early for Creagh/Morris to score, and so on. Hence, it was hard to defence. Roosters in 2013 had a killer variation of it that involved 2 front runners and an inside option and Maloney used nearly every variation of it each game. Melbourne used it several times last year, but of course JAC or Vunivalu only need a few centimetres to create something.

There's an issue with both our overreliance on the play and our inability to execute it smoothly. So not only is it easy to read when it happens, but at least 1 of the players is out of time (we mustn't train under proper game conditions - another result of not having a single experienced coach within our ranks). This means the play breaks down and we rely on either Widdop or Lafai to create something to salvage the entire set of 6.

In conclusion, block plays (and variations thereof) = good. Dragons footy = bad.

 

[Carlton]

Spot on BennyV, its not the play thats wrong, its that there are no options used, our timing is out and we dont have any other set play. I dont understand why we dont hit the "decoy" runners more. We had Thompson (ran great lines), we had Dugan (I would have used him as runner in the play almost like a second rower) and we have Frizzell, they were wasted.

The other thing I find frustrating is that a set play has two purposes, one is to score, the other is to work the defence and get players out of position. Its no good running a set play and then not having the vision to play whats in front of you on the next play and try to capitalise on any disarray in the defence.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Is the block play Mary or the defence coach that has that responsibility? Is Hornby/Young the defence or Wayne Collins? Or the bloke from the milk bar across the road....

Slippery
young is defensive coach.
Hornby is attacking coach but Mary has the final say as he is the head coach.
He overseas everything.
So the buck stops at mary

 

[dragonssamy61]

Block plays are a blight on the game. Even when they come off they are boring to watch in my opinion.
I want sides, especially ours, to have their own look.

Thinking back to how we were in the Browny days, it was such entertaining footy. Granted we had a better backline then, but we can't compete with the Storm and Roosters playing their game.

I'd look closely at our options at hooker. We need more spark, hey I'd even settle for another kicking option out of there. Watching Damien Cook and that real threat out of dummy half shows what we lack. It's not just what he does, but the time he affords his halves by defences second guessing him and compressing. We don't force near enough decisions from defensive lines, especially playing as before the line as we do. It's one left field decision away from turning around I reckon. I'd love to see Field play at hooker from the bench. His defence may not be up to it, but only one way to fix that .

Not a bad idea.
Would you play field of the bench for every game or would you play him against certain opposition and maybe four forwords against others.
I think we need to be flexible with our bench.
I agree we do need x factor from the bench.
Most other nrl teams do.

 

[Coffs dragon]

Is it block PLAYERS or block plays, cause there are quite a few players in our backline that stop the flow of movement!! No names but it's all in the numbers 2-5

 

[Slippery Morris]

Slippery
So the buck stops at mary

Agree mate. At the end of the day he has the final say and is persisting with this garbage play.

 

[getsmarty]

I'm going to buck the trend here - I believe the 'block play' and other monstrously drilled set plays absolutely have a place in the game. I love seeing off the cuff stuff from individual players and teams playing on a bit of instinct but there's a reason that doesnt happen too often - it either requires extreme individual brilliance OR at the very least, several players to see the same thing and have an understanding of what each other will be doing. It's why the Big 3 at Melbourne are so f**king good - if Smith sees an opportunity, he is confident that Slater and Cronk see the same thing and will put themselves on the spot.

But I got just as much of a boner every time we swung the ball to the left during the 2010 season. I was in awe watching us systematically dismantling teams and strangling them to a standstill. And as much as I hate every other team in the comp, I really enjoy seeing well structured game plans and plays executed well. I think there was a Cowboys play last year that involved a wraparound, 2 block runners and Morgan hitting a hole and I deadset rewound it to watch several times over. Nothing instinctive or off-the-cuff about it but it was super impressive.

The problem with our 'block play' is that there's little-to-no variation on it, and it seems to be the backbone of our structure so much that we spend 3-4 tackles of the set getting ready for it. That and it's clunky AF (has been ever since Price took over). In 2010, we set up for the block play every set, but Hornby often hit Creagh on the angled run, or he'd chip early for Creagh/Morris to score, and so on. Hence, it was hard to defence. Roosters in 2013 had a killer variation of it that involved 2 front runners and an inside option and Maloney used nearly every variation of it each game. Melbourne used it several times last year, but of course JAC or Vunivalu only need a few centimetres to create something.

There's an issue with both our overreliance on the play and our inability to execute it smoothly. So not only is it easy to read when it happens, but at least 1 of the players is out of time (we mustn't train under proper game conditions - another result of not having a single experienced coach within our ranks). This means the play breaks down and we rely on either Widdop or Lafai to create something to salvage the entire set of 6.

In conclusion, block plays (and variations thereof) = good. Dragons footy = bad.

Well said Benny V...its basically the lack of variations that kill us. Every other coach in the NRL will have our pet plays worked out.

 

[SEAT 1A]

Is it block PLAYERS or block plays, cause there are quite a few players in our backline that stop the flow of movement!! No names but it's all in the numbers 2-5

With the Dugan out and Dufty in hopefully, the team will be more incline to use it more and you would put you house on the Flow to get a bag full.

 

[SaintPauli]

We started well in 2017 because we started the season completely under the radar as everyone wrote us off. The power game worked for first 7 rounds but it cannot be sustained for a whole season and rigours of NRL. Hopefully the coaching staff have an alternative to last year. Hunt maybe? But is that enough!

Im hearing Josh Mansour is open to offers. With money left in our cap and with Dugan and Thompson going we should make a big play.

 

[ouryear]

We started well in 2017 because we started the season completely under the radar as everyone wrote us off. The power game worked for first 7 rounds but it cannot be sustained for a whole season and rigours of NRL. Hopefully the coaching staff have an alternative to last year. Hunt maybe? But is that enough!

Im hearing Josh Mansour is open to offers. With money left in our cap and with Dugan and Thompson going we should make a big play.

Just thinking, isn't it compulsory for a club to HAVE to spend all their cap money?
So if we have to spend it, by when?

 

[dragonssamy61]

Just thinking, isn't it compulsory for a club to HAVE to spend all their cap money?
So if we have to spend it, by when?

Oneyear.
Tou must have your 30 players finalized but 1st of april.
That include your 6 development players.
As far as I know.

 

[BennyV]

Just thinking, isn't it compulsory for a club to HAVE to spend all their cap money?
So if we have to spend it, by when?

Don’t have to spend it, but if you don’t spend it then you lose it.

Many clubs, including ours, use excess cap to front load new deals, easing pressure on future years.

 

[giboz71]

In 2010, we had Hornby, Boyd, Cooper, Creagh and Bmoz as our left side.

Copper and Creagh were genuine options to break the line, Boyd was probably the best ball playing fullback in the comp, and Bmoz would take an inch of space and take a mile with genuine speed.

The last 2-3 years, we’ve had a fullback that had no clue how to position a centre or winger, no centre that can break the line and possibly the slowest winger in the comp.

Huge difference in personnel.

 

[possm]

In 2010, we had Hornby, Boyd, Cooper, Creagh and Bmoz as our left side.

Copper and Creagh were genuine options to break the line, Boyd was probably the best ball playing fullback in the comp, and Bmoz would take an inch of space and take a mile with genuine speed.

The last 2-3 years, we’ve had a fullback that had no clue how to position a centre or winger, no centre that can break the line and possibly the slowest winger in the comp.

Huge difference in personnel.

We need to move on from the simple block plays. Unfortunately we won't until we hire a coaching staff that know the strengths ans weaknesses of their squad and do not have a singled minded approach to each game.

 

[giboz71]

We need to move on from the simple block plays. Unfortunately we won't until we hire a coaching staff that know the strengths ans weaknesses of their squad and do not have a singled minded approach to each game.

We don’t need to eliminate block plays altogether. All good teams use it.

We just need to know when and where to use it and not run it every single set move to the same side (our left usually).

Just need some variation, like a short ball to a second rower, kicking behind the defensive line or halves taking on the line and going themselves. Put the defence in 2 minds.

Good halves will know when to run it, not just robotically run it every set of 6 like we do.

 

[Carlton]

In 2010, we had Hornby, Boyd, Cooper, Creagh and Bmoz as our left side.

Copper and Creagh were genuine options to break the line, Boyd was probably the best ball playing fullback in the comp, and Bmoz would take an inch of space and take a mile with genuine speed.

The last 2-3 years, we’ve had a fullback that had no clue how to position a centre or winger, no centre that can break the line and possibly the slowest winger in the comp.

Huge difference in personnel.

And don't forget Soward, his long cut out pass to the winger was as good as they get. Flat, long, on target and timed to perfection. It was not pre conceived but was one of the options available that needed a decision from Soward on the fly. We try to do the same thing now but Widdops long pass to the winger is slow, loopy, often not accurately directed and seems to be decided before the play even unfolds.