The buck stops with the coaching staff for......

[barney gumble]

• Hindy losing his Origin and Test spots
• Grothe going from the Kangaroos to Wenty
• Tim Smith leaving the club
• Hayne being a shadow of the player he was
• Inu way out of form
• an ineffective and lazy forward pack
• a team tipped by most to be well in premiership contention grossly underachieving so far.

It's going to be a hell of an achievment to turn things around from here.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

totally agree, these players are the shadow of themselves.

 

[bartman]

• Hindy losing his Origin and Test spots - Hindy's own fault
• Grothe going from the Kangaroos to Wenty - Grothe's own fault, and he's shown that rep footy is hardly his priority
• Tim Smith leaving the club - Tim's own choice, looks a lot happier in his Wigan publicity shots
• Hayne being a shadow of the player he was - Hayne's own fault, same coach as last year when he was good
• Inu way out of form - again, only Inu can change that
• an ineffective and lazy forward pack - these forwards were better and hungrier under the same coach last year, again their own responsibility
• a team tipped by most to be well in premiership contention grossly underachieving so far. - who really cares about the tipping, we were only favoured because of performances last year, under the same coach

It's going to be a hell of an achievment to turn things around from here.

I'm not trying to give the coach or staff a wrap here, or exempt them from criticism, but these players from 1-25 have to also take personal responsibility for their own performances.

Just because some of them are being paid a fortune or once showed some potential to be stars, doesn't mean they should escape warranted criticism through people saying it all must be the coach's fault. The coach shouldn't have to babysit a squad with at least five former international reps (Inu, Hayne, Grothe, Cayless, Hindmarsh), and experienced seniopr players like Burt, Riddell, Finch, Wagon, Robinson.

 

[fish eel]

I'm not trying to give the coach or staff a wrap here, or exempt them from criticism, but these players from 1-25 have to also take personal responsibility for their own performances.

Just because some of them are being paid a fortune or once showed some potential to be stars, doesn't mean they should escape warranted criticism through people saying it all must be the coach's fault. The coach shouldn't have to babysit a squad with at least five former international reps (Inu, Hayne, Grothe, Cayless, Hindmarsh), and experienced seniopr players like Burt, Riddell, Finch, Wagon, Robinson.

I see what you are saying Bart, but with each one of those points, isloated, I kinda agree that you cant blame the coach, but put them all together and it does show the malaise that is in our club at the moment. And, it is the coaches job to deal with it, and Hagan can't, and worse, from the media articles I read this week, I dont think he comprehends how bad we are going. Sounded like he was in denial.

Buck has to stop somewhere and it is with him

 

[bartman]

A witch hunt isn't going to solve anything in my opinion. And just risks excusing some of the prima donna players mentioned above form being accountable for their own form.

I should have said 1-26,m including the coach as much responsible as his players. There is a malaise in the joint, and yes it is the caoch's job to sort it out, or get sorted out of the place himself.

I just think there's a danger in saying a coach is why particular players are choosing to play like busted arses compared to how they were going under the same coach and staff the year before.

My analysis is that the coach (and all the players) have not been particularly well equipped to cope with or successful in getting past Tim's botched return and then release from the club. No-one has seemed hungry all season, and I think quite simply they have not been able to get beyond the loss of (and then betrayal by?) their number 1 playmaker and mate.

The coach has to take responsibility for not getting that underlying issue fixed, but that's a lot different to being responsible for every little personal failure of the 25 guys who should toughen up, stop counting their cash and pull their fingers out when the going gets tough.

That is unless the coach had asked the club for extra help under teh circumstances (sports psychologist etc) and it was refused? But by the sound of all the quotes, he hasn't even worked out what the underlying problem with everyone is and just believes it will magically come good one week :lol:

 

[fish eel]

A witch hunt isn't going to solve anything in my opinion. And just risks excusing some of the prima donna players mentioned above form being accountable for their own form.

I should have said 1-26,m including the coach as much responsible as his players. There is a malaise in the joint, and yes it is the caoch's job to sort it out, or get sorted out of the place himself.

I just think there's a danger in saying a coach is why particular players are choosing to play like busted arses compared to how they were going under the same coach and staff the year before.

My analysis is that the coach (and all the players) have not been particularly well equipped to cope with or successful in getting past Tim's botched return and then release from the club. No-one has seemed hungry all season, and I think quite simply they have not been able to get beyond the loss of (and then betrayal by?) their number 1 playmaker and mate.

The coach has to take responsibility for not getting that underlying issue fixed, but that's a lot different to being responsible for every little personal failure of the 25 guys who should toughen up, stop counting their cash and pull their fingers out when the going gets tough.

That is unless the coach had asked the club for extra help under teh circumstances (sports psychologist etc) and it was refused? But by the sound of all the quotes, he hasn't even worked out what the underlying problem with everyone is and just believes it will magically come good one week :lol:

and thats the thing. If the type of stuff being said publicly relfects what he is telling the players privately, then it's little wonder we havent seen any on field improvements.

 

[bartman]

Yep. I'm sure when decision time comes on Hagan's performance this season, it will be rated accordingly.

But these guys listed above like Grothe, Hayne. Inu, and Hindy are all rep-level players who to some extent should be able to coach themselves, and even act as leaders and examples to their teammates. This season we've got nothing in terms of leadership or example from the coach or senior players, and to me it's hardly rocket science to work out that the effetcs of the Tim Smith "situation" are the reason.

Either that or someone's been sleeping with someone elses' missus or something?

The whole place seems to be in denial. And these players simply cashing their cheques and not feeling any investment in the club. You could almost read it on their faces at the after-match function, compared to the enthusiasm shown on stage and off by our U20s side. Here's hoping the young ones don't take after the attitude shown by the senior side, at least this year.

 

[fish eel]

Yep. I'm sure when decision time comes on Hagan's performance this season, it will be rated accordingly.

But these guys listed above like Grothe, Hayne. Inu, and Hindy are all rep-level players who to some extent should be able to coach themselves, and even act as leaders and examples to their teammates. This season we've got nothing in terms of leadership or example from the coach or senior players, and to me it's hardly rocket science to work out that the effetcs of the Tim Smith "situation" are the reason.

Either that or someone's been sleeping with someone elses' missus or something?

The whole place seems to be in denial. And these players simply cashing their cheques and not feeling any investment in the club. You could almost read it on their faces at the after-match function, compared to the enthusiasm shown on stage and off by our U20s side. Here's hoping the young ones don't take after the attitude shown by the senior side, at least this year.

It's LONG time since we've had leadership coming out of our senior players.

It's a tough life, but it's the coaches life. Buck has to stop somewhere, and you cant sack and pay out your entire squad....

 

[stuke]

It's LONG time since we've had leadership coming out of our senior players.

It's a tough life, but it's the coaches life. Buck has to stop somewhere, and you cant sack and pay out your entire squad....

it is a part of the coaches life. it comes under the management aspect and it is blatantly obvious that Hagan is extremely poor in this regard. the same trend of a successful first year followed by uncommitted and complacent players has followed him from the Knights to the Eels. coincidence?

 

[COACH STERLING]

In all ways of life when something goes wrong, a person or persons must always be accountable. For me, there is a common denominator that doesn't go unnoticed, and thats the effort / intensity which the players have demonstrated which has know rubbed off on all. It's the coach's job the inspire, prepare and motivate any players to the levels required to win NRL matches. Any coach that can't achieve this with the sort of squad parra have can f**k right off.

Hagan is mentally pis*weak and does not make the tough decisions required to bring us up to scratch. Like one of my mates said at the game yesterday, it's not under f**king 12's stuff where you just give it to your best player and let him run the length of the field. There needs to be structure in defence and attack. The fitness level of these blokes is f**king disgusting. They can't compete for more than 10 mins without falling apart. Another poor reflection on the coaching staff.

 

[bartman]

It's LONG time since we've had leadership coming out of our senior players.

It's a tough life, but it's the coaches life. Buck has to stop somewhere, and you cant sack and pay out your entire squad....

:lol: Just half of em would do me at the moment. We could do worse than an off-season declaration that whoever doesn't really want to be here can have their contract voided - get rid of the deadwood and the ones that seem to think the grass is greener on the other side (Hayne).

I think we just want to avoid the trap of saacking the coach and believeing everything will instantly change.... Because the (same) players are now playing worse than in Smith's final half season, before Taylor came up from within to get them some form and energy, so to me there is definitely also player responsibility/motivation factor happening here this season.

 

[fish eel]

:lol: Just half of em would do me at the moment. We could do worse than an off-season declaration that whoever doesn't really want to be here can have their contract voided - get rid of the deadwood and the ones that seem to think the grass is greener on the other side (Hayne).

I think we just want to avoid the trap of saacking the coach and believeing everything will instantly change.... Because the (same) players are now playing worse than in Smith's final half season, before Taylor came up from within to get them some form and energy, so to me there is definitely also player responsibility/motivation factor happening here this season.

A top to bottom clean out is whats needed, from management to the coach to senior players.

Of course, Hagan will still be the coach next year. We all know that Fitzy wont sack him and pay him out - no matter how bad we go for the rest of this year.

 

[Suitman]

:lol: Just half of em would do me at the moment. We could do worse than an off-season declaration that whoever doesn't really want to be here can have their contract voided - get rid of the deadwood and the ones that seem to think the grass is greener on the other side (Hayne).

I think we just want to avoid the trap of saacking the coach and believeing everything will instantly change.... Because the (same) players are now playing worse than in Smith's final half season, before Taylor came up from within to get them some form and energy, so to me there is definitely also player responsibility/motivation factor happening here this season.

Bart, you say that changing a coach may not necessarily change things.
I'd suggest that our players, now have a similar mindset and enmotional mentality of the Roosters last year under Chris Anderson.

They brought in someone with passion and desire, and look what has happened. They had the players. We have the players.

Why aren't we getting the best out of them??

Suity

 

[COACH STERLING]

:lol: Just half of em would do me at the moment. We could do worse than an off-season declaration that whoever doesn't really want to be here can have their contract voided - get rid of the deadwood and the ones that seem to think the grass is greener on the other side (Hayne).

I think we just want to avoid the trap of saacking the coach and believeing everything will instantly change.... Because the (same) players are now playing worse than in Smith's final half season, before Taylor came up from within to get them some form and energy, so to me there is definitely also player responsibility/motivation factor happening here this season.

I don't think Hayne ever stated that the grass is greener on the other side. He did offer to play in the centres only because he genuinely want's to turn the clubs fortunes around. Hardly something to be punished over. Dispite everyone's suggestions, he still took a pay cut in order to stick around with the eels.

 

[bartman]

I said seem to think, I wasn't implying he was quoted that way.

The fact he took so long to commit to our new contract in the off-season speaks voplumes in my opinion, when matched to the way he has performed.

All to easy to blame the caoch for Hayne's performance, when only he can change whether he plays like a busted arse each week or not. Same goes for the lot of them as well, coach and players need to be accountable, not just the one person at the top. Same principle as in a lot of things in life, I suspect.

 

[fish eel]

I said seem to think, I wasn't implying he was quoted that way.

The fact he took so long to commit to our new contract in the off-season speaks voplumes in my opinion, when matched to the way he has performed.

All to easy to blame the caoch for Hayne's performance, when only he can change whether he plays like a busted arse each week or not. Same goes for the lot of them as well, coach and players need to be accountable, not just the one person at the top. Same principle as in a lot of things in life, I suspect.

Inu took just as long as Hayne to sign.

I think you're reading to much into that.

 

[COACH STERLING]

I said seem to think, I wasn't implying he was quoted that way.

The fact he took so long to commit to our new contract in the off-season speaks voplumes in my opinion, when matched to the way he has performed.

All to easy to blame the caoch for Hayne's performance, when only he can change whether he plays like a busted arse each week or not. Same goes for the lot of them as well, coach and players need to be accountable, not just the one person at the top. Same principle as in a lot of things in life, I suspect.

At work there is always a boss. If I f**k up it reflects badly on my boss. It's then my boss' responsibility to build me back up to scratch. If I don't perform he has options. Either get rid of me or keep training me till I get better. Ultimately, the boss neck is on the choping block for any operational disfunctions. That's why coaches are on more money than players. They are Ultimately Responsible.

 

[bartman]

Probably am. Doesn't change the fact Hayne is playing like a busted arse and earning too much money (more than Inu, and anyone else in the club?) to do so. Vella used to cop heaps for only playing well around the time of contract negotiation and then going soft, unfortunately I can't see Hayne as any different.

If Hagan is on an option for next year inthe club's favour, then I suspect the last three weeks will have been enough for the club to make their decision about his future. And if he's not on a option and just has a straight contract continuing into next year, I wouldn't be surprised if a decision about his future is being made as we write, to enable the club to start putting feelers out for 2010 in advance.

But as sure as I am that Hagan won't be with us in 2010 (or perhaps leave sooner), that alone doesn't fill me with hope that many of the current crop of players have the necessary desire or motivation in them to face adversity and turn it around. magic coaches like Jack Gibson don't come around that often, and we need our players to dig forever deeper to get out of this mess for next season.

 

[bartman]

At work there is always a boss. If I f**k up it reflects badly on my boss. It's then my boss' responsibility to build me back up to scratch. If I don't perform he has options. Either get rid of me or keep training me till I get better. Ultimately, the boss neck is on the choping block for any operational disfunctions. That's why coaches are on more money than players. They are Ultimately Responsible.

Yes obviously. But as has been said above, he simply can't just sack or drop 17 players. If the (17) people being trained don't get better - or don't seem to want to, or believe they have to - then what's the boss of the (17) people to do.

 

[COACH STERLING]

Yes obviously. But as has been said above, he simply can't just sack or drop 17 players. If the (17) people being trained don't get better - or don't seem to want to, or believe they have to - then what's the boss of the (17) people to do.

That's pefect Bartman. I think you've just answered my answer. If we have 17 talented players who were tipped at the begining of the year to challenge Melbourne, but yet we find themselves languishing 10 spots below the leaders (and lucky to be there I might add), than the person in charge of those 17 needs to be accounted.
f**k being nice mate. We've been nice for 22 years. No room for under-achievers Bartman.