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The effect of the Broncos in the 80s on the QRL

Big Tommy

Juniors
Messages
252
While I generally concur with most of what has been written above, even when it has been expressed differently by separate posters, I don't think we should underestimate the lack of leadership in rugby league administration, particularly in Qld, as a reason for the drop in interest of local league.

Post McAuliffe, a larger than life figure, we have basically had stuff all leadership of our great game coming out of Qld. Even today, who can tell me where I can access the vision for rugby league in Qld between now and say 2006, or 2010?

When we really needed a strong proponent and cohesive leadership in Qld league when the Broncos entered in 1988, we got pretty much nothing. Even the code in Sydney has suffered with Arko and Quayle and then the long line of News Ltd lawyer clones more interested in certain segments (as well as their own) of the code and not the code as a whole.

The answer: exhume the good Senator's body and extract some DNA and use that to clone a new rugby league visionary. Sadly, I'm not sure rugby league in Qld could wait 20 odd years for this person to mature because sadly I don't think there will be much of the code left by about 2025 if we keep going at this rate.

As I posted on another forum at an earlier time, I think the era of a hybrid rugby code is fast approaching! (unfortunately, but that's my view).
 

joshreading

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,720
I have frequently thought that the only way to boost the profile is ironically to turn the State League into a national comp indirectly by playing Grandfinalists of NSWRL, Qld Cup PNG and NZ against each other.

See NRL section with 2nd Teir NRL or something like that it was. I just think that maybe that could help.

Any thoughts?
 

Paullyboy

Coach
Messages
10,473
XXXX Cap said:
Do you mind telling us what subject and course this comes under ?

Its for university, im doing a major in Sports Management. The criteria of this assignment is to look at where a significan management decision has been made in a sport and look at the effects for all parties concerned.

Im, obviously, focusing on the decision to push for a Brisbane team in the NSWRL and the effects that had on the BRL and QLD leagues.
 

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
What is the feeling of how the rival oval ball codes (ignore soccer for the moment) in Brisbane (& Queensland) coped when they went national or semi-national in the case of union.

Did they falter as much as RL did & how does RL compare with their competitions now?

From what I have seen I think RL has done the best. I drove past an AFL ground on the coast when their was a game in progress & noted the total crowd to be about 60 (max). From reading the paper next day I learned it was a QAFL first grade fixture involving the two leading teams.

Also as far as AFL is concerned a lot of Brisbane clubs have disappeared. Sandgate, Windsor Zillmere, Kedron (does it still exist) etc.

As far as union is concerned Redcliffe folded (recently reformed this year I think) & from watching a few of the games on ABC TV there crowd support is only a fraction of that of the Queensland Cup RL games (and these are not all that flash either).

The playing strength of both these code seems to have moved to the coast and out of Brisbane. Just about the same teams always play in their GFs.

Any thoughts?
 

mud n blood

Juniors
Messages
595
Windsor-Zillmere are now called Northern Eagles, while Sandgate has been reformed for 10 years now after the failed merger. Kedron was in effect gobbled up by Wilston-Grange, while the axed Mayne won their court battle to be reinstated 2 years ago.

So not quite the case you mentioned ....

While the crowds are not there, the local rules comp is getting stronger by playing standard and increased junior participation. The role the AFL and Lions have had in the code's re-emergence has been impressive, and they now have a very slick operation - with various junior marketing and development programs, short and long term operational plans, future directions committee, schools development projects, etc.

Sadly, without the past visionaries of our game though, we are now stagnant as far as future direction goes, and simply bobbling along with that "this is how we've always done it" public servant mentality. The southern division is possibly the exception to this with a number of good (and sometimes unsuccessful) ideas, but the thinking process is at least working well out there.

I fail to see where a second-tier national comp will benefit the game locally. Who would sponsor it with the NRL its main rival ? Who could afford to play in it bar the two or three Brisbane clubs with some sort of relationship with successful leagues clubs. And how long would the "power-base" and/or control of this comp remain in Qld ? There are plenty more rich clubs in Sydney than Brisbane, and it will just end up the bitch for the NSW premier division comp.

Just my thoughts ....

Oh, and I don't buy the doomsday ideas of AFL and rah rah taking over league in Qld .... :roll:
 

XXXX Cap

Juniors
Messages
1,266
russ13 said:
What is the feeling of how the rival oval ball codes (ignore soccer for the moment) in Brisbane (& Queensland) coped when they went national or semi-national in the case of union.

Did they falter as much as RL did & how does RL compare with their competitions now?


The thing with Aussie Rules and Union at the time of "going national" was that they didn't have a lot to lose as far as their local competitions were concerned.

Neither of them had huge supporter bases - Rugby has long been a "wives and girlfriends" crowd, so the effect of teams in a national comp has not been huge.

Whilst Qld Cup might have much better crowds than the local Rules and Union competitions now, the comparative loss of support from the mid-80's would show that Rugby League is by far the biggest loser in Brisbane through the introduction of national competitions.
 

chileman

Coach
Messages
10,523
I want to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread...as some of you know I'm only new up here in QLD but love RL and it's been a great thread to learn more about the QRL and it's history...cheers!
 

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
A little over 20 years ago union was on the move in Quuensland. I was reminded of this when I picked up an old book from the library. Hugh Lunn had written an article in the book I think it was called Queenslanders & there was a story about about the Queensland RU team. They had Mark Loane & Paul Mclean in their team. The state union side was reqularly cleaning up NSW then. (Everybody then did not know union in NSW is weak as piss-talent wise & still is). The state RL team was getting thrashed. Itis marvellous what a couple of good players will do. There was nothing in the book about RL.

This was McAuliffe's incentive to get the SOO games going.

Here is RL 1908 site with an article on the BRL-go to articles
http://www.rl1908.com/
 

CliffyGC

Juniors
Messages
258
Great thread guys i dont agree with everything but it does remind me alot of my frustation being a kid from sydney in the early 80s and not being able to watch the sydney games because the QRL was that popular.

I think a QLd team in the Sydney comp was always going to happen i think the reason it happened as early as 1988 was the fact manly had thrown everything bar the leagues club and brookvale oval at Wally Lewis and Gene Miles and on top of losing Mal and bletcher that would of put a huge hole in the Brisbane comp.

The only reason Wally never left is that a huge amount of manlys offer was coming from Kerry Packer and the QRL had a contract with wally that if they could match what a sydney club could give him he would stay. the fact was the QRL could match Manlys offer without packers top up.
 

Paullyboy

Coach
Messages
10,473
Sorry guys I forgot all about posting this, there are a couple of flaws in it but I got away with some of them. I ended up getting a real good mark for it.

Here it is:
 

Paullyboy

Coach
Messages
10,473
The Effects on Queensland Rugby League as a result of the creation of the Brisbane Broncos

The sport of Rugby League was born in the year 1895 as a result of several UK Rugby Union officials and clubs becoming disenchanted with the way Rugby Union at the time was being played. What appeared to be nothing more than a minor or temporary protest ended up yielding one of the most competitive, supported and successful sports in the United Kingdom, and Rugby League also managed to spread into neighbouring France and other northern Europe countries, down to South Africa and over to Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands. Rugby League first made its way to Australia early in the 1900’s and by 1908 the New South Wales Rugby League (NSWRL) had formed to create Australia’s first rugby league competition. But it wasn’t only New South Wales who adopted this new and intriguing sport, Queensland also became engrossed with the game of Rugby League as well. The game has changed a lot between 1895 and 2003 but it is still an extremely popular sport in these two Australian states. (Information via rugby league websites League Unlimited, World of Rugby League and RL1908)


Rugby League in Queensland has had an interesting history, and it has been so popular in this state that other sports have rarely rated a mention, but within the last decade things have changed in the Queensland sporting landscape, a look at the history of Rugby League in Queensland helps to outline possible reasons. Rugby League in Queensland really started to develop in 1962 with the development of a state championship tournament contested by teams from each section of the state, (from North Queensland through to Central Queensland, Wide Bay, Brisbane and down the Coast) this became one of the first genuine rugby league competitions in Queensland. The Statewide Competition ended in 1973, but it had gone a long way towards creating the interest towards a Queensland Rugby League competition. In 1974 a slightly less populated competition was designed, consisting of most of the teams from the Statewide Competition but without any Brisbane teams. Brisbane teams did not participate in the new competition because the Brisbane Rugby League had formed and was running its own competition, and its popularity was beginning to reach unchartered levels of support, and it was beginning to catch up to the professionalism of the NSWRL competition based in Sydney. The only time the two state’s combined was for the annual state games, but the New South Wales side often was filled with many Queensland born players who had been lured to Sydney to play in the NSWRL competition. This changed however in 1980 in one of the biggest changes that Rugby League in Australia has seen, the creation of the State Of Origin series. For the first time the Queenslanders argued their case to the Australian Rugby League chairman that the New South Wales team was unfairly advantaged, and so the State of Origin series was born, with players playing for their state of birth. Pollard (1995, pp 10-12) wrote that through the lobbying of Queenslander Ron McAullife and with the support of then Australian Rugby League Chairman Kevin Humphries, the concept of players playing for their state of birth was born. This became the start of not only an unbelievably successful competition, but it is argued that this was also to be a key factor in later years towards making a permanent change to the way rugby league competitions were run in Australia, by the Queenslanders standing up for themselves they became a more important player in the Australian Rugby League and it is that sparked the interest in creating a Brisbane team to enter the NSWRL competition later that decade.


In New South Wales there was a belief that it harboured the best rugby league competition as it was where the saying, and they adopted the saying from a former Queensland radio commentator, “the greatest game of all” as their own. And it was hard to argue with this, because the results of the annual state games up until 1980 showed that New South Wales based team won 160 of the 219 matches played over their Queensland based counterparts (Pollard, 1995). The New South Wales competition also had more money to utilise due to the use of poker machines as additional sources of revenue, which wasn’t adopted by Queensland clubs until many years later. This meant that the New South Wales clubs were much more capable of signing talent from interstate, and each season the number of Queensland players being signed to Sydney teams was increasing, according to McGregor (1989). McGregor also wrote that, “In the 1987 season, Brisbane lost 59 first grade players to the NSWRL, the equivalent of four teams, which was nearly half of the nine team league.” And it wasn’t just the players who were looking to the greener pastures of the NSWRL competition, the Brisbane Rugby League (BRL) in the years of 1986 and 1987 decided to lodge an application for a Brisbane based team to join in the NSWRL and used the argument of the Queensland team’s successes in the state of origin series since the competition began (Queensland won nine of the first 13 matches, played between 1980 and 1986, (Pollard, 1995)) to show that Queensland could not only hold their own, but be successful. The Queensland Rugby League officials were interested in joining the NSWRL competition for several reasons, but at the time appeared oblivious to the impending problems that could be incurred by completely changing the Queensland Rugby League structure and focus. The QRL officials seemed only interested in the potential benefits and failed to see that by changing a successful formula in search of a potential greater benefit could have back-fired as was to happen in later years. The combination of an increasing player exodus to the NSWRL competition, a perceived drop in interest from the public in the BRL competition and the ‘challenge’ of the Sydney competition proved enough motivation however, and in 1987 the Brisbane Broncos, along with three other new teams (Gold Coast-Tweed Giants (who at the time were based in Northern NSW and not Queensland), Newcastle Knights and Illawarra Steelers) were created and all joined the 1988 NSWRL competition, (Cadigan, 2001).


The Brisbane Broncos became an instant success, on and off the field, and they still remain fairly successful to this day, but that only created a false image of success for Rugby League in Queensland. There are two arguments based around the birth of the Broncos, the first argument is that it was essential for Rugby League to move towards a national competition for the sake of the game in the future. McGregor writes that by 1987 the Brisbane Bullets, a team in the National Basketball League (NBL), sold out any stadium it booked (it had just won its second premiership at the time) and the Victorian Football League (now known as the AFL) had begun making progress into the traditional Rugby League states by moving towards a national competition and creating teams in Brisbane and Sydney. From this viewpoint it is argued that Rugby league needed to go ‘national’ in some way, or at least find a way of integrating the successful BRL and NSWRL competitions, and this is why the NSWRL and the Queensland Rugby League had to agree to terms, but the other argument says that in creating a more ‘national’ competition was going to alienate the pre-existing competitions that were already such a success (ie the BRL) and it would automatically make any other league appear as a second-tier competition, and that is exactly what happened. The traditional fans of the BRL argued that all that was happening was the New South Wales competition was growing at the expense of their own competition.

By the time the 1988 NSWRL season had gotten underway, the media had devoted its interests towards the Broncos and ignored the BRL because it was no longer a popular or glamorous event in the eyes of some. As a result, the crowds at BRL games declined rapidly as the Broncos home crowds increased. The question that divided Rugby league fans, and still does, is did the Broncos cause the decline in interest in Rugby League in Queensland? Andrews (1992) argued that by creating the Broncos, Rugby league was putting itself in a new image and slipping into dangerous territory by shifting away from tradition and focusing on glitz and glamour. By doing this the supporters in Queensland no longer had such a firm attachment, and it also grouped all the rugby league supporters in Brisbane behind the one team, so if the Broncos faltered, Rugby league in Brisbane would be in a very dangerous position. This opened the door for the first ever time for other sports to have a genuine opportunity at stealing the spotlight away from Rugby League in Queensland. In the early 1990’s the Brisbane Bullets (NBL) were still quite successful and in the mid 1990’s the Brisbane Strikers (National Soccer League) had a moment in the spotlight. In 2003 the Brisbane Lions (AFL) have become the latest Brisbane sporting team to have a surge in popularity, and the traditionalists argue that none of these sports would become anywhere near as popular had the Brisbane Broncos not been created, which is an argument no one can prove or disprove but it does have merits.


The BRL continued to operate in the early 1990’s despite falling further and further behind each season as NSWRL clubs signed more and more players, but it was clear to the Queensland Rugby League officials that something had to change or the once proud Brisbane competition would drift into sporting oblivion. So, in 1996, the Queensland Cup was created. The Queensland Cup was designed to replace the BRL (although the BRL did continue to operate for several years after the creation of the QRL before finally being removed) and to bring in teams from the Gold Coast (Burleigh Bears), the west (Toowoomba Clydesdales and Ipswich Jets), Central Queensland (Central Comets) and the North (North Queensland Young Guns) and of course the pre-existing Brisbane based clubs. The Queensland Cup has been able to have a more successful competition than the BRL was able to as in 2001 it secured a major sponsor (Bundy Gold) and has been successful in securing a television broadcast on the ABC. But the QRL competition is still well and truly second tier to the national competition (Which in 1998 changed its name to the National Rugby League).


Rugby League in Southern Queensland has now only one successful team, the Broncos, and even they are feeling the effects of the ‘Super League war’ when the National competition in 1997 was split due to a management issue and two competitions were created, by 1998 the two competitions were one again and this is why the name NRL was adopted. The Brisbane Broncos have followed the path that the opposition of a national competition in 1988 predicted, they would not be able to capture the interests of all rugby league fans in Brisbane alone, and therefore Rugby League would suffer. This decline is reflected in the Brisbane Broncos average home crowd’s, in 1993 the Broncos were averaging well in excess of 30,000 people per game, a decade later the Broncos have dropped to an average of just over 20,000 (source: Stats.Rleague.com). The problem for Rugby League in Queensland is that the new generation of supporters have been brought up watching the national competition and so to suggest that the Queensland Cup will take over and undo the negatives created by the Bronco’s failures is hard to agree with. The decline in interest in Rugby League in Queensland may be a curb that is impossible to recover from, and the NRL has suggested a second team in Brisbane as almost a desperation measure to try and do something to re-capture the imaginations of the public, but this is fraught with danger and could result in an even more rapid decline.


Its hard not to blame the inclusion of the Broncos into the NSWRL as the reason that rugby league in Queensland has begun to decline, but the decline may have happened anyway and may have happened sooner if no change had been made anyway. The NSWRL was poaching more and more players and the quality of the BRL was always going to suffer as a result so something had to happen, but did the NSWRL officials go the wrong way about it? Maybe if they had decided to make a truly more national competition and allowed an even mix of Queensland and New South Wales clubs the problems that exist today may never have happened. It is hard also to think of any possible suggestions for how to change this, other than to hope that the Brisbane Broncos can manage to re-ignite the interests of the Brisbane public, maybe another Brisbane team would be a positive move, or maybe another Queensland team based in Central Queensland or on the Gold Coast could be a successful move. Either way, Rugby league in Queensland is suffering and the once proud success and triumph of the sport appears to be just a memory.
 

mud n blood

Juniors
Messages
595
Fairly good my young friend .....

A few years and things not exactly accurate but a fair argument has been made for each of the moot points.

8/10 ...... :D
 

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
I don't think that RL has declined as much as you state. The TV rating are at record levels. For instance on 12 occassions in 2002 the combined Pay TV & FTA viewing(for the Broncos) figures exceeded 1 million viewers. This is better than the All Blacks achieve in New Zealand.

The crowds at the Broncos in the new stadium were about 28000 average. This is about 10000 more than the QE11 average. Should be well over 30000 next year. Marvellous what a good stadium centrally located can achieve.

I still see a lot of promising signs at the grass roots level & the Queensland Cup is gaining in popularity.
 

mud n blood

Juniors
Messages
595
A few points -

1. ABC-tv ratings do not convert into dollars.
2. The level of paper coverage for local RL has dropped.
3. The level of tv coverage for local RL has dropped.
4. Crowd numbers at games have dropped.
5. Club membership numbers have dropped.
6. Radio coverage is now non-existent from up to 3 stations on game day.
7. Player payments have dropped.
8. Player registrations at senior district level has dropped.
9. Profile of clubs and players has dropped.
10. Quality of facilities thru lack of dollars has dropped.

I think there has been a very serious negative effect on the local game which cannot be understated. And the increasing threat of things worsening is very real.
 

XXXX

Juniors
Messages
67
You have to go back a little further to find the real instigator .The VFL poached players from the WAFL ,SANFL and TAS by paying more money .This affected the quality of those leagues who couldn't compete with bigger Vic clubs .SO the AFL was formed to appease the non Vic states ,just when the Swans were established in Sydney to cash in on the Sunday market .In response the NSWRL felt in had to counter this national image and thus set about consolidating RL areas in it's "national" comp .This was a very successful strategy in countering the AFL's image and bringing new interest into it's comp but it sacrificed the BRL .If the superleague fiasco hadn't occurred then Brisbane might of gained a stronger position .Hypothetically you can't ask what if .because if the AFL didn't threatened then any number of global sports would have along with the social changes mentioned earlier .For the QRL to compete with the NSWRL then the states would have had to remain in a time warp ,impervious to all external stimuli .However the greater population probably would give rise to a NSW win .
 

chileman

Coach
Messages
10,523
I've moved this thread from the QRL section to the classic thread section as it is just that, a classic and would hate to see it die!
 

DIEHARD

----
Messages
7,037
It is so sad...

What do people believe should have happened?

NSW and QLD to continue to run separate competitions? Or for the QRL and NSWRL to form a NATIONAL COMP with promotion and relegation?
 

rugged

Juniors
Messages
2,415
Well if the good QLD players hadn't all been offered big (by the past standards) contracts by the pokie laden NSW clubs then the QLD comp would have been strong also. Then the national comp that would have eventually happened would have been fairer and not just a couple of QLD teams coming into a NSW comp.

So, in essence, it's Joh's fault for not having pokies!!!!
 

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