The "grandparent rule" for international teams

[Copa]

With the world cup coming up I'd like to think this rule isn't abused during the qualification rounds to get into the world cup.

What's stopping a "small" RL nation , lets say one with administration heavily Australia based, from slapping up a brand new domestic comp in the "home" country but then loading their teams for the qualification games with players who only qualify through the grandparent rule and have never actually spent any time in the country concerned?

How will this be prevented? Should this be prevented??

Should there be a limit on the grandparent (or even the parent) rule?

 

[League Freak™]

I qualifyed for atleast three to the teams that took part in the 2000 competition.


Thats why the grandparent rule is a farce.


It should be scrapped in favour of this:

To play for a Rugby League nation you should a naturalized citizen of that nation.

If you were born somewhere else and you REALLY want to play for the nation you live in, prove it. Become naturalized and
show you really are a citizen of that nation in every way.

Outside of this, I do no support players playing for more then one nation. I do not support players being drafted into a team
one the "Grandparent" rule.

I think the IRLF should take an active role in this area and with the support of its member nations it should put this one
simple rule in place to bring back some credibility in International Rugby League.

I know I would have no problems if Tonie Carroll played for Australia after going through the naturalization process....but fans
wont cop seeing Queenslander Brent Webb play for New Zealand just because he played for the Warriors in the NRL for four
years.

 

[jvujosevic]

With the world cup coming up I'd like to think this rule isn't abused during the qualification rounds to get into the world cup.

What's stopping a "small" RL nation , lets say one with administration heavily Australia based, from slapping up a brand new domestic comp in the "home" country but then loading their teams for the qualification games with players who only qualify through the grandparent rule and have never actually spent any time in the country concerned?

How will this be prevented? Should this be prevented??

Should there be a limit on the grandparent (or even the parent) rule?

Holland have few players who play against Serbia, who see Holland maybe only on TV, they speak only english, and they never been in Holland, Serbia never used Serbian origin players from Australia and UK, I think if we use them we will be 3 times srtonger side, but that will be bad for Serbia develpoment, and some of domestic player will be angry.

 

[carlnz]

Parent rule or lived in the country for 4 years PLAYING rugby league is fine

 

[Copa]

For players who seem to have never lived (as opposed to just holiday) in the team's country.....Maybe a quota on "grandparent rule" players?? 1 per team?? plus 2 or 3 "parent rule" players max?

I don't find too many issues with the "residency rule".

 

[screeny]

Holland have few players who play against Serbia, who see Holland maybe only on TV, they speak only english, and they never been in Holland, Serbia never used Serbian origin players from Australia and UK, I think if we use them we will be 3 times srtonger side, but that will be bad for Serbia develpoment, and some of domestic player will be angry.

What!!!!! That is a disgrace! In an official match like that how were the 'Dutch' allowed to get away with...well, with cheating?

How many players is 'a few' jvujosevic? One is bad enough but a third of the team, half of the team, more, is simply unacceptable.

Have you made a complaint to the RLEF? Serbia continues to be shat upon by the RL world at large.

 

[YANTO]

Holland have few players who play against Serbia, who see Holland maybe only on TV, they speak only english, and they never been in Holland, Serbia never used Serbian origin players from Australia and UK, I think if we use them we will be 3 times srtonger side, but that will be bad for Serbia develpoment, and some of domestic player will be angry.

Without getting into an International dispute here let me name the team that played in Serbia.

1.Rudy Stanford Smyth Born South Africa from Dutch parents raised in Holland since 4 years old.Dutch passport.

2.Kees Foxton BORN IN HOLLAND lives in the UK

3.Joel barret BORN IN HOLLAND lives in the UK

4.Ronald van der Broek BORN IN HOLLAND LIVES IN HOLLAND.

5.Raymond den Engelsman BORN IN HOLLAND LIVES IN HOLLAND

6.Jorik Moree BORN IN HOLLAND LIVES IN HOLLAND

7.Aaron de Jager Dutch Mother lives in Robertson Aus.

8.Johnny Qua Dutch Citizan Dutch Wife LIVES IN HOLLAND

9.Nathen Meirske BORN IN HOLLAND lives in UK

10.Phil Parkinson BORN IN HOLLAND lives in UK

11.Nathen Gee Dutch Grandmother

12.Bevan Williamson Dutch grandfather lives in Holland for 4 years

13 OH THE ONE THAT CAUSED SERBIA SO MUCH HEARTACHE.....ALEX SMITS.
BORN IN NEW ZEALAND FROM DUTCH PARENTS (MOTHER AND FATHER) AND DUTCH PASSPORT HOLDER.LIVES IN LONDON


Now Screeny and Jvujosevic tell me what rules the Netherlands broke.

We were also short of Martijn Jonkers DUTCH BORN,Dirk Schutt DUTCH BORN,Duncan van Dam DUTCH BORN and Daan Kloppenburg DUTCH BORN from the team that played Georgia.

EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE in the Netherlands speaks english.

Screeny do not judge anyone until you have the facts mate.
Alex Smits got M.O.M and the Serbian officials did not like his Kiwi accent.
ALL PLAYERS CREDENTIALS WERE CHECKED FOR ELIGABILITY and I find this a very distasteful slander on the work we are doing here in Holland.

As for calling me ( as I selected the squad ) a cheat I also find that a very personal attack.
You seem to have jumped into the deep end without knowing actually WHO PLAYED FOR HOLLAND.

 

[Copa]

What!!!!! That is a disgrace! In an official match like that how were the 'Dutch' allowed to get away with...well, with cheating?

How many players is 'a few' jvujosevic? One is bad enough but a third of the team, half of the team, more, is simply unacceptable.

Have you made a complaint to the RLEF? Serbia continues to be shat upon by the RL world at large.

I'm sure it was all within the rules.


If you wanna see where the grandparent and parent rule is really stretched .... there is another sport which I won't mention on here.

 

[YANTO]

Is there any difference between
1) Queensland players playing in the NRL at Sydney and in State of Origin? ( 2 hours flying??)
2) Serbia guys trying out at London Skolars (3 hours flying)
3)Dutch BORN and BRED playing in the UK (45 minutes flying??)

I met Blagoje in Rotterdam last year.

Genoeg gezegt.

Serbia need to look at how they respect other nations. ( wow can I post about the serious diffalcutlties YOU left us in from 2004 BUT I wont YET)

ONE man destroyed your team jvujosevic and yet you question the whole structure and credability of the NNRLB.

VERY VERY Dissapointed in the way you took the defeat.

We (Both teams) have improved from the Rotterdam tournament in August 2004 .


But in Belgrade we were competative AND ON THE DAY the better team.

We should be working together to improve RL in small european Nations,and your remarks (in defeat) does nothing to help.


Serbia have the whole RL world behind them BUT REMARKS like what you posted does nothing to help us develop.

FFS even Screeny jumped on the bandwagon


YOU LOST twice now by Holland .......Accept it... no matter what you say these guys are 100% DUTCH
Played Holland twice now and LOST BOTH home and away ...............HAVE YOU EVER WON A GAME..................BOY I AM FU**G MAD AT THIS ACCUSATION..


Good LUCK in Tbilisi.......................................you will need it .......

 

[yakstorm]

Holland have few players who play against Serbia, who see Holland maybe only on TV, they speak only english, and they never been in Holland, Serbia never used Serbian origin players from Australia and UK, I think if we use them we will be 3 times srtonger side, but that will be bad for Serbia develpoment, and some of domestic player will be angry.

Serbia have tried to draw people from Australia before so don't act as if the Serbian RL is all wonderful and perfect. One of the guys I use to play with in A Grade in Sydney was asked if he could come across for the Med Cup a few years back but pulled out due to finances and injury.

Holland have not broken any rules, their squad was perfectly legit within the rules there. None of the players used qualifed under GrandParent rules, they were either from Holland, or one or two qualify through having Dutch parents... again perfectly legit.

The rules for drawing players was made quite clear by the RLEF for the tournament, and quite frankly if the Serbian RL decided not to exercise their full potential under the rules, thats their own choice and they must face any problems that may of come from making those choices.

I personally don't blame Yanto for getting really annoyed with these comments, and those by other people who don't know the full story. Holland have always been very transparent, open and clear where their players are from, how they qualify for the nation and have always provided the appropiate documentation when requested by authorities. There are some more 'senior' nations who could learn a tip or two from them...

 

[jvujosevic]

Without getting into an International dispute here let me name the team that played in Serbia.

1.Rudy Stanford Smyth Born South Africa from Dutch parents raised in Holland since 4 years old.Dutch passport.

2.Kees Foxton BORN IN HOLLAND lives in the UK

3.Joel barret BORN IN HOLLAND lives in the UK

4.Ronald van der Broek BORN IN HOLLAND LIVES IN HOLLAND.

5.Raymond den Engelsman BORN IN HOLLAND LIVES IN HOLLAND

6.Jorik Moree BORN IN HOLLAND LIVES IN HOLLAND

7.Aaron de Jager Dutch Mother lives in Robertson Aus.

8.Johnny Qua Dutch Citizan Dutch Wife LIVES IN HOLLAND

9.Nathen Meirske BORN IN HOLLAND lives in UK

10.Phil Parkinson BORN IN HOLLAND lives in UK

11.Nathen Gee Dutch Grandmother

12.Bevan Williamson Dutch grandfather lives in Holland for 4 years

13 OH THE ONE THAT CAUSED SERBIA SO MUCH HEARTACHE.....ALEX SMITS.
BORN IN NEW ZEALAND FROM DUTCH PARENTS (MOTHER AND FATHER) AND DUTCH PASSPORT HOLDER.LIVES IN LONDON


Now Screeny and Jvujosevic tell me what rules the Netherlands broke.

We were also short of Martijn Jonkers DUTCH BORN,Dirk Schutt DUTCH BORN,Duncan van Dam DUTCH BORN and Daan Kloppenburg DUTCH BORN from the team that played Georgia.

EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE in the Netherlands speaks english.

Screeny do not judge anyone until you have the facts mate.
Alex Smits got M.O.M and the Serbian officials did not like his Kiwi accent.
ALL PLAYERS CREDENTIALS WERE CHECKED FOR ELIGABILITY and I find this a very distasteful slander on the work we are doing here in Holland.

As for calling me ( as I selected the squad ) a cheat I also find that a very personal attack.
You seem to have jumped into the deep end without knowing actually WHO PLAYED FOR HOLLAND.

YANTO be honest, Serbia boys who play in London Scholars told us that your center who play against us is Australian player, because they lived with him in London, and also where are 4 more players, you write only for 13 players.

And You said EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE in the Netherlands speaks English, but not Dutch.

You are making big boast about your win against Serbia, but Serbia have 17 players who play in Serbian club, Serbia have boy U17, who play against You, Serbia have 4 boys U18 who play against you, and all from Serbia. What will happen if we call Serbian origin players from UK like Simon Svabic NL1 - Oldham, Luke Simeunovic NL1 Halifax, James Simeunovic BARLA Premier Division, or Serbian players from Australia like: Dragan Djurdjevic ex NRL player, David Djukic, David Milovanovic,... we will beat your team by 30 points, but that isn’t DEVELOPMENT.

To be honest in front all the people on this forum Serbia was playing very poor against Holland , because Serbian boys are inexperience, and because of that Serbia lose the game, but all of them are Serbian from Serbia and that is - DEVELOPMENT.

 

[YANTO]

YANTO be honest, Serbia boys who play in London Scholars told us that your center who play against us is Australian player, because they lived with him in London, and also where are 4 more players, you write only for 13 players.

And You said EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE in the Netherlands speaks English, but not Dutch.

You are making big boast about your win against Serbia, but Serbia have 17 players who play in Serbian club, Serbia have boy U17, who play against You, Serbia have 4 boys U18 who play against you, and all from Serbia. What will happen if we call Serbian origin players from UK like Simon Svabic NL1 - Oldham, Luke Simeunovic NL1 Halifax, James Simeunovic BARLA Premier Division, or Serbian players from Australia like: Dragan Djurdjevic ex NRL player, David Djukic, David Milovanovic,... we will beat your team by 30 points, but that isn’t DEVELOPMENT.

To be honest in front all the people on this forum Serbia was playing very poor against Holland , because Serbian boys are inexperience, and because of that Serbia lose the game, but all of them are Serbian from Serbia and that is - DEVELOPMENT.

Centers that evening were Joel Barrett born in Holland and speaks fluent Dutch but is now ay university in Sheffield and the big guy Ronald van der Broek who again was born and lives in Holland and three years ago was a soccer player.
I would say that out of the 13 that started 10 speak FLUENT NEDERLAND but the language on the field is English.................what is wrong with that.........even your players were speaking english.,
As I have shown the team Jvujosevic we broke no rules.
You want to quote players from Australia and the UK, heymate we have quite a few more IF WE WISH TO CALL ON THEM??

We had at the weakest team ever in Belgrade due to injuries and the costs involved.
From the Georgia game Martijn Jonkers,Duncan van Dam.Daan Kloppenburg, Dirk Schutt,Xander Wijunhorst and Julien Treu were missing.
Cyril and Riener Brienburg where BIG misses.
Thats EIGHT PLAYERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stevan Rhodes our captain is out for the next 6 months.

EVIDENCE ??????????????

Team v GEORGIA april 2005 Lost 14 -34

Team v Serbia 2005 in BELGRADE THAT won 10- 26 with only ten players from the Georgia game (above) and below how many players played in Belgrade from the team that won in Rotterdam in August??
ANSWER SEVEN

ANY ONE SPOT THE DIFFERANCE between the sides ??

jvujosevic,
I do not want to get in to a slanging match with you mate.
Check with the RLEF about the players we played in Belgrade.
Want to check all thier passports/birth certificates?

Twice we have beaten Serbia in eight months.
First in Rotterdam with a rugby union team plus Joel Barrett.Stevan Rhodes and Martijn Jonkers who were the only guys with League experience.
Shame Stevan and Martijn were both injured for Belgrade.
Then we travel to belgrade with a very weak team and beat you at home.

What will happen if we call Serbian origin players from UK like Simon Svabic NL1 - Oldham, Luke Simeunovic NL1 Halifax, James Simeunovic BARLA Premier Division, or Serbian players from Australia like: Dragan Djurdjevic ex NRL player, David Djukic, David Milovanovic,... we will beat your team by 30 points, but that isn’t DEVELOPMENT.

Have you not ben trying to recruit overseas players over the last twelve months??

Concentrate on your next game in Tbilisi because I think you will find it very very difficult.
Having met Georgia I can not see Serbia getting a result.


I can not understand why you have started this "war on words" and accused the NNRLB of not playing by the rules.
In Holland we have been playing rugby league for a shorter period of time than you have in Serbia.
I thought we could rely on the support of all new developing nations but it seems that is not possible when results go against you.

One draw v Morocco.fully serbian based team.well to go but do not please degrade another small country just because they came to belgrade and won.

By the way Alex Smits was awsome that night

 

[Ari Gold]

it doesn't seem like Netherlands broke any rules at all....

 

[screeny]

Fair enough, I don't know the REAL

 

[screeny]

Fair enough, I don't know the REAL facts, I admit that. I can only go by what others who are involved say and what's been reported.

Didn't mean to cause offence, just get annoyed when int'l RL gets (allegedly) taken up the garden path.

So what about the four subs? They were all cushtie too? Or was it really just a case of sour grapes?

I would also say that jvujosevic, there's no point in saying 'with our Aussie or GB based players we'd have won' - well get them to play then!!!! Serbia would undoubtedly be stronger with a few experienced Aussies and I think are one of the very few nations who don't field GP eligible players.

Let's face it, you'd much rather play with them as you'd be a stronger side. Why don't they come, just due to expense?

 

[Copa]

Tension builds as the competition heats up!!

 

[southsman]

The grandparent rule should be scraped and just make it a parent rule. This will make the World Cup a little more less farcical. Who ever thought up of the Grandparent rule is a silly man. Under the Grandparent rule I could play for Australia , England and France teams. What's the chance the rule will be changed?

 

[jvujosevic]

Everybody,
You must understand that is big deference that your player plays even lower division in UK or Australia or to play in some of emergency country in Europe.
You must understand that in Europe only 3 emergency nation countries have their teams from players who are from their country: Russia, Georgia and Serbia and that is DEVELOPMENT, Holland have mix team from Dutch and UK and Aus. Players, Lebanon have also mix team from Lebanon and Aus. players, but Lebanon did from my opinion the biggest DEVELOPMENT, because every year on Med. Cup there are more and more local players from Lebanon, Malta is Australian base, Greece and Italy also, Morocco team are all Moroccans from France.
This is our reality and we must face with this.

 

[YANTO]

So what about the four subs

Screeny count the players on the photo,we didint have the luxury of FOUR subs.
But Holland made every effort, at very short notice, to put a side out and I am proud of the guys who all paid their own way to Belgrade to ensure this fixture went ahead.

CREDABILITY is high on our list.

As far as I am concerned this case is now closed.

 

[jvujosevic]

YANTO, you are my friend and we will put this on side, because we must carry on with our cooperation and think about future. As I said the reason that Serbia lose the game was Serbian poor play, on match with Holland

Just to inform You that Serbian Rugby League president Blagoje Stoiljkovic resigned from his function, and the main reason is that he have misunderstanding with RLEF, because there is no support, etc., and the one of the things that made him very angry was that he want to see Dutch passport before match with Holland and to show Serbian players passports and ID carts, but RELF official said to him We are Gentlemen and we trust each others, there is no need to check each others.

I hope that we will have soon World Cup qualification and things like this are not good, Serbian Rugby League will insist that before every official match delegate of match must control the passport and document to see who is who, that is in every sport, even in the “other rugby sport” – and I don’t like to say this, because I don’t like that sport, but in qualification for rugby union World Cup 2003, Russia was suspend because they have 2 players from South Africa with fake documents.