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The Guru

Matchball

Bench
Messages
2,971
Here here,I am way over Sheens,2005 was a long time ago,2006 was our last proper halfback,when is this idiot getting punted,and why isn't Humphreys or the board putting the acid on him,he is not the great coach everyone thinks he is.
Why didn't we let him go to Penrith,Folkes would have us in the top 4 now,what a lost opportunity.:(

Nobody is doing anything because everyone involved are about self preservation.
Humphreys is afraid if coach isn't happy, he will have a player revolt and things get sticky for the board if coach and players want out. Just look at the manly/hasler fiasco for example.

Coach has the board by the balls because he controls the select few.
 

weretiger

Juniors
Messages
70
Two of Rugby League's greatest ever halves on national television believe the Tigers need a running 5/8.

Yet we have Old Time Tiger advising "It's as simple as"

and Super Coach sdvising "Yeh without doubt our best combo at present"

It is clear Ryan is safe at fullback but brings with him a pop gun attack lacking the pace and passing game to threaten the defences of the top sides. And if you look back on Sheens' preference for a fullback, he has always chosen one with a strong passing game; Belcher at the Raiders and Bowen at the Cowboys.

We know also the reason Moltzen is at fullback is to cover for the injury to Tedesco. Likewise, Moltzen began the year at half to cover for the loss of Lui.

Seems to me the side has done well just to be where it is with the loss of two important players.
 

weretiger

Juniors
Messages
70
i dont get how we can use the excuse of losing tedesco he was a rookie in his first nrl game and gets hurt and our season is gone,,he could have struggled all year its not as if we lost greg inglis put lawrence to fullback give him a go.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Ryan is a better fullback than centre.

Why put Lawrence out of position at fullback and put Ryan in the position in the backline where he is weakest?

As for 'two of the greatest halves' comments, We don't have a halfback of even a quarter of the calibre of Johns, so we can't afford to have a running 6 with no ball skills.

Thats why we need Moltzen in the halves.

Let us not forget that Johns has worked exclsuively with Benji for a year and look at how much his game didn't improve.

Joey, just like Wally Lewis was a great, once in a generation player, but an absolute hack as a coach.

And Fittler has no f**king idea what he's talking about, great player but when it comes to coaching and understanding what works in a team, he's as dumb as post.

Anyone remember Anasta at fullback, Minichiello at five-eighth.

Marshall's incompetence in the 7 for over half this season speaks volumes. Over the year he's now put together 80 mins of good football for a halfback.
 

Tiger05

First Grade
Messages
9,764
Who is "they"?

Lawrence at 6 has failed every time. Just like Farah at 7. Just like John Morris at 7 (for three years).

But Sheens will never budge and will keep trying it over and over again.

We all know Sheens problems with regards to selections. I agree that playing Lawrence at 6 is a risk but I still think it might work if he plays as a centre. The problem has been when he tries and ball play.
 

Radical Rat

Juniors
Messages
1,111
Ryan is a better fullback than centre.

Why put Lawrence out of position at fullback and put Ryan in the position in the backline where he is weakest?

As for 'two of the greatest halves' comments, We don't have a halfback of even a quarter of the calibre of Johns, so we can't afford to have a running 6 with no ball skills.

Thats why we need Moltzen in the halves.

Let us not forget that Johns has worked exclsuively with Benji for a year and look at how much his game didn't improve.

Joey, just like Wally Lewis was a great, once in a generation player, but an absolute hack as a coach.

And Fittler has no f**king idea what he's talking about, great player but when it comes to coaching and understanding what works in a team, he's as dumb as post.

Anyone remember Anasta at fullback, Minichiello at five-eighth.

Marshall's incompetence in the 7 for over half this season speaks volumes. Over the year he's now put together 80 mins of good football for a halfback.

And Ryan is a better winger than a fullback. I love his effort, but I really don't rate Beau as a fullback. Apart from running back kick returns hard, he really doesn't offer much. He has no ball playing, he's not quick. He should stay on the wing IMO.
 

super_coach

First Grade
Messages
5,061
Sheens wants to play what he regards as his best 17 players, now if they all happened to be specialist full backs he would still pick them one through 17. He dosnt seem to worry about the actual skills required to play different positions. He thinks if your a good footballer you can get the job done anywhere on the field doing any task. Its been a very successful philosophy when you look at the results he has a achieved over the past decade. Mr 40% the living legend
 

macnaz

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,479
Andrew Johns and Brad Fittler also supported the move on the basis with two dominant ball players already in the side, the team needed a running 5/8.

A quick question id love you to answer. If you regard Johns And Fittlers opinion so highly , would you rate the opinion of an immortal and several former internationals even higher ????
 
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R2Coupe

Juniors
Messages
1,520
Read my post again. This is a forum and while many of the anti Sheens flotsam are happy to give their opinions on team and positional selections, I noted the opinions of two great halves.

And for the record, my view is Sheens has done well to put a competitive team on the field considering our injuries.

Take Thurston and Bowen from the Cowboys. Cronk and Slater from the Storm. DCE and Stewart from Manly. Huge gaps to fill over long periods of time.

The point is, in the blindness to attack Sheens many of you have lost your sense of objectivity.
 

Tiger05

First Grade
Messages
9,764
Read my post again. This is a forum and while many of the anti Sheens flotsam are happy to give their opinions on team and positional selections, I noted the opinions of two great halves.

And for the record, my view is Sheens has done well to put a competitive team on the field considering our injuries.

Take Thurston and Bowen from the Cowboys. Cronk and Slater from the Storm. DCE and Stewart from Manly. Huge gaps to fill over long periods of time.

The point is, in the blindness to attack Sheens many of you have lost your sense of objectivity.

I agree especially with your last point.
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
Read my post again. This is a forum and while many of the anti Sheens flotsam are happy to give their opinions on team and positional selections, I noted the opinions of two great halves.

And for the record, my view is Sheens has done well to put a competitive team on the field considering our injuries.

Take Thurston and Bowen from the Cowboys. Cronk and Slater from the Storm. DCE and Stewart from Manly. Huge gaps to fill over long periods of time.

The point is, in the blindness to attack Sheens many of you have lost your sense of objectivity.

We've had our two best players, our playmakers, on the park almost all year (Farah and Marshall) so your comparison to those players doesn't make any sense to me.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
And Ryan is a better winger than a fullback. I love his effort, but I really don't rate Beau as a fullback. Apart from running back kick returns hard, he really doesn't offer much. He has no ball playing, he's not quick. He should stay on the wing IMO.
I'm not going to argue against that, because you are right.

However is a better fullback at present than Moltzen.

I want a fullback who is better defensively first. And I don't mean just at tackling, but positioning, fielding kicks, catching bombs, contesting bombs etc.

Moltzen just doesn't have the skill set for that. His skills are that of a half.

Most of the skills a winger has/requires to be good are similar to those needed by a fullback, which is why Ryan is better at fullback than Moltzen.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Read my post again. This is a forum and while many of the anti Sheens flotsam are happy to give their opinions on team and positional selections, I noted the opinions of two great halves.

And for the record, my view is Sheens has done well to put a competitive team on the field considering our injuries.

Take Thurston and Bowen from the Cowboys. Cronk and Slater from the Storm. DCE and Stewart from Manly. Huge gaps to fill over long periods of time.

The point is, in the blindness to attack Sheens many of you have lost your sense of objectivity.
ah the injuries excuse.

We aren't the only team to suffer injuries. Every team gets them and to their star players every year.

It's a shithouse excuse.

Please come up with something better, purely because your injuries excuse can be countered many times over.
 

Magpies Forever

Juniors
Messages
2,208
Sheens? I have never met the man, he may be the nicest bloke going around but his positional selections and constant, pig headed desire to change some players from their best 'most natural' positions into something else absolutely sh*ts me. He has crueled many players chances at WT and forced them to o eslewhere eg Bronson Harrison had to go to the Raiders to get away from being forced into a prop forward that he was not happy to do. I feel he is doing it again to Benji with Sheens desire to make him into a halfback rather than the world class fiveeighth he currently is/was.

I accept injury on the field during a game forces radical positional changes to accomodate the need in an emergency, but to do this intentionally, as a planned event, should not be on. If he is saying WT have no other options than to do this, then Sheens should be censured for his player recruitment and retention decisions made up to this time. Depth and giving reserve players a chance should be an option Sheens rarely employs.
 

R2Coupe

Juniors
Messages
1,520
We've had our two best players, our playmakers, on the park almost all year (Farah and Marshall) so your comparison to those players doesn't make any sense to me.

And that is no surprise to me!

You take your number one half back out of any team and there will be problems.

Go back to the Lui threads with the ususal flotsam attacking his play. Lui had the vision in attack Pearce could only dream about, outstanding ball playing skills and took a lot of pressure from Marshall. He created another point of attack and was especially good in finals series!

Take also your No 1 fullback. Perhaps he had only played 30 minutes but that did not stop many leading clubs chasing his signature. And finally lose Ellis for weeks and Galloway and there will be problems.

In short, spin it whatever way you may but injuries have impacted on the team and its performance.
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
And that is no surprise to me!

You take your number one half back out of any team and there will be problems.

Go back to the Lui threads with the ususal flotsam attacking his play. Lui had the vision in attack Pearce could only dream about, outstanding ball playing skills and took a lot of pressure from Marshall. He created another point of attack and was especially good in finals series!

Take also your No 1 fullback. Perhaps he had only played 30 minutes but that did not stop many leading clubs chasing his signature. And finally lose Ellis for weeks and Galloway and there will be problems.

In short, spin it whatever way you may but injuries have impacted on the team and its performance.

See, what makes me laugh is that you have automatically pegged me as an irrational Sheens hater just because I often criticise him. But if you've read any of my posts I'll always explain my thoughts rather than just criticise for the sake of it.

Perfect example is Lui. I don't know why you are telling me the value of Lui, I've always defended him on here, there's no doubt that he was a massive loss, he is a huge talent and the side really misses him. I've always rated him and defended him on here despite the bagging he copped.

Back to your comparison, there is no doubt Lui is a loss and so is Tedesco and neither are the fault of Sheens. However, you've compared them to Thurston/Bowen and Slater/Cronk. The reason this doesn't make any sense is that those players are the best in those sides. Thurston and Bowen are without a doubt the Cowboys two most important and best players, while Slater and Cronk are part of the big three, so let's say second and third best players after Smith.

Tedesco and Lui aren't two of our best players. They are good players but our most important players and our two best players are Marshall and Farah. They've been on the field for most of the year, bar a few games without Robbie. And while Tedesco is a huge talent, he's played one first grade game.

Now its not Sheens' fault that these two guys are gone. However, it IS his fault and he is ultimately responsible for the mess that's happened in replacing them. My main gripe with Sheens has always been about team selection and playing players out of position. We may have lost Lui due to sacking and Tedesco due to injury but Sheens WAS NOT forced to:

- Play Farah at halfback
- Move Moltzen from halfback
- Play Ayshford at five eighth
- Play Lawrence at five eighth

In all of these cases, Sheens could have easily picked a player to replace the injured/unavailable player without moving players out of position. Whether it be Humble, Miller, Chisholm or whoever, the point is he had the option to keep players in their natural position but ultimately chose not to.

Now you can spin that whichever way you like but to blame injuries and injuries alone is little more than a cop out. Just admit Sheens could have managed the situation better. He could have avoided so much tinkering and chopping and changing if he just picked like for like replacements in these positions.

But feel free to tell me how I'm wrong and I'm an irrational Sheens hater.
 

macnaz

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,479
What do you know Hybrid!! your just flotsam.
 
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Tigers Tale

Juniors
Messages
1,417
I think that is a fair summation Hybrid Tiger. Many of us probably do come across as hating Sheens (or perhaps appearing to) but as you so rightly say we are simply frustrated in his team selections.

I have been a player/supporter of this game for over 50 years and the normal procedure was to bring someone through the reserves to fill the vacancy...position for position. That is why we have reserves. History suggest it works and it creates less problems for those still in the team. They know their role and they are not placed under more pressure to learn a new position.

This constant changing has meant no continuity. Injuries are part of footy and can't be helped but as people are saying, some better than others....dumb team choices can be helped and when you are a dictator like Sheens the blame must stop with him.
 
Messages
6,120
moltzen to half would be crazy
i think if he goes anywhere its to 5/8 and why not give him a shot there and let him have more control of the game and benji less

the big problem is benji will never let anyone in the halfs play well cause he basically hogs the ball
 

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