The "Hagan must go" petition thread

[ArturiusX]

I take all your points about poor training facilities, but we've lost 11 games with a team that hasn't once played a strong game all season. Hagan's poor talent development has led to borderline first graders being put on the field and under performing.

Forget whos getting injured, the Bulldogs have much worse injuries than us, and they still manage to win a few games/compete in some others. Why? Because their coach/staff has put in a talent development systems thats first class, and it shows, because even those guys can handle having an entire grand final winning forward pack/half the backline on the sideline and still come up with something half decent.

Our players are under performing, ignoring injury, and like I said, theres only 2 reasons, and both look bleak for Hagan and co.

 

[The Whippet]

As an insider looking in it's hard to blame Michael Hagan for the demise of Newcastle.

Look at all the injuries that the club has, are they his fault? Newcastle don't even have a physio because they can't afford one. They have no money to purchase an adequate level of coaching staff. As Andrew Johns said 'Newcastle has survived on an oily rag'.

The dropping of Carmont is all well and good but who do you replace him with? Is there anyone? I'm not a fan of him either but you can't drop someone if there is no one to replace him with.

The other main point in this argument is how do you pay him out? Newcastle have no money to pay Hagan out if he was sacked.

His credentials suggest that he is a good coach, Queensland SOO coach and a premiership in 2001.

Time will tell.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

I agree that Hagan has had his time.

He is now our longest serving coach, and far from our most successful coach.

I think everyone will agree he is a nice guy, but we need someone who will be a bastard when he has to.

Everyone hated Warren Ryan when he decided to drop Sarge to the bench because he was too slow and immobile - everyone hated him forcing Matt Johns and Owen Craigie out - but he was right to do it - history says so.

Hagan should have cut lots of guys over the years - how did Josh Smith stay on the books till he decided to retire due to injuries? Why have we still got guys like Price, Mueller, Perry, Witt etc.


Nice first post BTW.

Sarge retired mid 95, ryan came in, in 99. It was reilly that dropped sarge to the bench.

When hagan came to the knights he said he was going to build a team around johns. So when johns is injured we have nothing!, when he is out of form we have nothing! When he retired in 2 years we'll have nothing!

What a great thinking coach..........

 

[Bring it home Knights]

People I who reckon need to go (in this order):

1. Conway
2. Tyler
3. Hagan
4. Peden

This probably wouldn't solve all of the club's problems, but it would be one hell of a start.

tyler???

He's been here two minutes!

 

[Matt23]

2 minutes too long
Tyler :arrow:
Conway :arrow:
Peden :arrow:
Hagan :arrow:

 

[antonius]

tyler???

He's been here two minutes!

Tyler has been on the board for years.

 

[The Little People]

Tyler has been on the board for years.

He has been Deputy Chairman since December 2001 - about 4 months before he made his biggest and most costly mistake of recommending his "buddy" Ken Conway as CEO.

We have paid the price of that blunder for more than 3 years.

And the entire Board have not demand accountability from its inept managment team. 36 Board Meeetings to review the CEO and his Management Teams perfromance.. and 36 months of INACTION. I a REAL BUSINESS Conway would not have last 12 months before the Board woke up to him. Our Board is a bit slow.

Sarge was the 2nd Senior Manager to resign citing their position being untenable due to Conways presence. Their Financial Controller resigned in March 2003 for the exact same reason.

 

[antonius]

I take all your points about poor training facilities, but we've lost 11 games with a team that hasn't once played a strong game all season. Hagan's poor talent development has led to borderline first graders being put on the field and under performing.

Forget whos getting injured, the Bulldogs have much worse injuries than us, and they still manage to win a few games/compete in some others. Why? Because their coach/staff has put in a talent development systems thats first class, and it shows, because even those guys can handle having an entire grand final winning forward pack/half the backline on the sideline and still come up with something half decent.

Our players are under performing, ignoring injury, and like I said, theres only 2 reasons, and both look bleak for Hagan and co.

I'm agreeing with you, our player roster is crap.

 

[Doctor]

I agree that Hagan has had his time.

He is now our longest serving coach, and far from our most successful coach.

I think everyone will agree he is a nice guy, but we need someone who will be a bastard when he has to.

Everyone hated Warren Ryan when he decided to drop Sarge to the bench because he was too slow and immobile - everyone hated him forcing Matt Johns and Owen Craigie out - but he was right to do it - history says so.

Hagan should have cut lots of guys over the years - how did Josh Smith stay on the books till he decided to retire due to injuries? Why have we still got guys like Price, Mueller, Perry, Witt etc.

Nice first post BTW.

You've summed it up well Roopy -- Michael Hagan is a genuinely nice bloke, especially for someone so recognised around Newcastle. I've met him a couple of times and found him to be very open to conversation.

But the fact remains that the team is not performing, and part of the reason is due to poor selection choices and an ineffective recruitment agenda. These issues are Michael Hagan's to deal with, as the head coach and chief selector of the football team. I agree -- I think he's had a good run of time in the job, but the results are not there and perhaps we need some fresh ideas and a new direction. Whatever he's trying at the moment isn't working -- 11 losses is about under-performing as a team can get.

I said at the start of the season that I didn't want Hages to become a scapegoat. But it's reached a stage where clearly the selection choices, albeit influenced by injuries, are proving to be incorrect. We seem to be working on the same strategy that we two years ago.

I suppose my greatest disappointment is that I've done a 180 degree on all this. Initially I thought Hagan should be given the benefit of the doubt. We're now hitting the halfway stage of the season, without a win. Despite Ken Conway's suggestion that Mark Sargent's departure will get the club on the improve, I'm still of the belief that more needs to be done. The club is a long way behind the eight-ball, and no amount of talk will get the club back to where it needs to be.

Hages has been shown some tremendous loyalty by the club -- but it's time to show loyalty to the fans who have, until now, accepted that perhaps the club knows more about what needs to happen than they do. Clearly whatever they're trying at the moment isn't working. The benefit of the doubt has expired.

 

[parra pete]

You people are jokes. Why does the coach always get the blame????
He was good enough to get you a premiership in 2001. Do you really think he has become a bad coach in three seasons since???

 

[Doctor]

You people are jokes. Why does the coach always get the blame????
He was good enough to get you a premiership in 2001. Do you really think he has become a bad coach in three seasons since???

I think it's a real shame that there is a perception that anyone who thinks we need a different coach is no longer loyal to the club -- that even hinting that the club needs a new direction is considered to be a sign that the fans are deserting or becoming fickle.

Now, while I agree that many Knights fans are a bit fickle, it's worth pointing out that I've only recently really started to believe that Michael Hagan's tenure may be coming to an end. As a said: top bloke, really great with the players, but clearly the current set up isn't working. 11 losses indicates, quite clearly, that the current plans and proceedures are not working at all.

I just think it's time for something new -- three seasons of dud performances is enough for this fan. Let's face it, most clubs would have changed coaches at least once in the process of notching up 11 straight losses.

 

[knights_maniac]

Hagan doesnt know how to get the most out of a player. What dfid you all expect...its the newcastle thing to bring the old boys back into the fold...


We need a new coach. Hows Fairleigh go?? I think experienced coach is what we need...someone who has the guts to pull the plug on players...

 

[snapper]

I totally agree with your comments Arturius. For too long Knights fans have had to put up with poor decisions on team selections. Players that are making fundamental mistakes week in week out and not being stepped down for a stint in premier league.

I also agree that if our top 17 players were available for selection that the team would most likekely be struggling also. However I do think that we have got players that are capable of playing better football than what is being displayed at the moment. And Hagan must take some of the blame for this.

If anyone saw where Matt Gidley was marking up after the 2nd scrum that led to a try against the Broncos they would have witnessed another example of our ordinary defensive patterns. I sometimes wonder if Hagan ever points these things out to his players, as from what I've seen in the last couple of years no one seems to be learning from there mistakes yet they get selected to play 1st grade regardless.

And to the outsiders looking in, I can understand what it must look like when people start calling for the coach to get sacked. I 've thought the same about rival clubs fans doing the same. But when you watch every club game 2-3 times, read every team line-up and press release associated with your own club, you like to think your a little better informed than your rival fans.

Hagan as many have said seems to be a genuine nice guy and I'm proud to have him associated with the club. As a one time player and captain of our club he put in and for that I am grateful. I would love for him to stay on at the club but not in a coaching, or recruitment role.

Unfortunately he seems to be made of teflon and none of the sh#t going down at the moment is going to stick to him.

It's time for him to take some responsibility for whats going on.

 

[ArturiusX]

You people are jokes. Why does the coach always get the blame????
He was good enough to get you a premiership in 2001. Do you really think he has become a bad coach in three seasons since???

Part of Hagan's role is to develop players. He's failed miserably.

Like I said, Hagan coached a side full of great players, previously coached by the hardcore oldboy Warren Ryan. Coaches aren't just 'teach you how to do stuff' like in junior grade, they're responsibile for team development, developing players, and positioning the team for the future.

Irregardless of whether Hagan was a good coach back then (like I said, its my opinion that anyone could have coached the knights to victory), he's become redundant, and his coaching style isn't suited to developing young player, more towards getting the most out of already established players.

Its for this reason that he needs to go. Don't take it personally, this is professional sport; you perform, you get praised, you under perform, the door will be opened for you.

 

[Razor]

Bennett is known to be very loyal to players and rarely wields the axe so i don't know where you got that from.

He might not axe them but he puts them in reserve grade. Stuart Kelly for instance.

but with the the whole injuries and rehab situation, they're just short of raiding the local kindergarten to find people to fill in the gaps.

Injuries happen due to poor training. Hagan gets an allowance which he can use to hire the staff he wants. He is hiring the wrong Conditioning staff.

but even Blind Freddie can see a need for the Knights board to be stood down.

The members vote for the board. If enough members voted the board out, they'd be gone.

 

[Alex28]

Hagan is trying to do himself what 4 or 5 people do at other clubs - like i said, give him the right resources and then see how he goes.

 

[ArturiusX]

Hagan is trying to do himself what 4 or 5 people do at other clubs - like i said, give him the right resources and then see how he goes.

What resources? Someone to rub the guys down full time? Someone to check out every injury full time?

I'd hate to break it to you, but these magical 'resources' that make a bad team into a great team don't exist. What resources could Hagan use to turn is under achieving players like Woolnough, Perry, Quinn and co into winners? Answer: none. Money doesn't buy that.

 

[TooheysNew]

Money helps condition the good players enough that they can stay on the field.
Money helps buy proper trainers who work the laziness out of players like Perry. Look at Webb for example.

Answer: Money can buy that.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

I agree dilmah.

you have no idea arturiusx. "Someone to check out every injury full time" That is not what we are after. We are after someone conditioning the players to do strength work etc to stop them injuring themselves so often and when they are injured, to get them back on the field quicker then they are at the moment.

 

[foetus_head]

Hagan definately has room for improvement, but I dont think anyone really has a right to judge him considering the shocking conditions and the pressure that has been placed on him.

Undeniably our biggest problem is our recruitment, or lack there of, and I hardly think we can blame him for that.