The Las Vegas Thread

[Iamback]

When I was in New Orleans in 2015 they had Sharks V Can't remeber on the TVs in the pubs.

I don't know what channel it was on or if the game was live....but I was blown away to see NRL in American pubs on a Friday night.

We saw Salt Lake City in particular get behind Samoa in the World Cup just gone

 

[Maximus]

Huge difference, this isn't the 1st push into US.

NZ and Poms test match
US have made World Cups
They were slated to host a World Cup too.

So there is a very minor history there

As with most things with you it is an apples and oranges market.

If we counting Canada too as the whole North American market.

In the last 20 years:

A professional team was going in the E

Australia has played USA in a match over there

Dragons in NRLW have had a Canadian come over

The current Souffs coach has played test matches for Canada

USA has made the QF in a World Cup

England has played NZ in a test.

So why 99.9% of people wouldn't know RL, It does have some presence over there.

That is without the links to RL for other better known people over there.

Doesn't ensure success but is a small footprint to build from

The US has played in 11 men's football world cups, including hosting 1.
They've played in all 9 women's world cups, won 4 and hosted 2.

The biggest league in the world averages 500k, and their own professional league averaged around 350k until Messi arrived.

 

[Wb1234]

As with most things with you it is an apples and oranges comparison

If we counting Canada too as the whole North American market.

In the last 20 years:

A professional team was going in the ESL

Australia has played USA in a match over there

Dragons in NRLW have had a Canadian come over

The current Souffs coach has played test matches for Canada

USA has made the QF in a World Cup

England has played NZ in a test.

So while 99.9% of people wouldn't know RL, It does have some presence over there.

That is without the links to RL for other better known people over there.

Doesn't ensure success but is a small footprint to build from

Before toronto were killed off they were slated for hosting a rugby league World Cup

it’s funny people who claim to be rugby league fans are so ignorant of all these occurrences

some people just aren’t interested in expansion I guess

 

[Iamback]

Before toronto were killed off they were slated for hosting a rugby league World Cup

it’s funny people who claim to be rugby league fans are so ignorant of all these occurrences

some people just aren’t interested in expansion I guess

Correct, NRL are far from the trailblazers here. The fact they are locked in for 5 years is good to build on it,

 

[Wb1234]

Correct, NRL are far from the trailblazers here. The fact they are locked in for 5 years is good to build on it,

Ideal scenario is this becomes another good profit earner and is an annual event

it’s a reward for players which I’m sure they appreciate

Adam Reynolds was buzzing when he was interviewed about this

nobody really expects rugby league to conquer America any time soon

foxtel getting the nrl season opener with no other fta games is a huge win for them

 

[Wb1234]

 

[Maximus]

Before toronto were killed off they were slated for hosting a rugby league World Cup

it’s funny people who claim to be rugby league fans are so ignorant of all these occurrences

some people just aren’t interested in expansion I guess

Correct, NRL are far from the trailblazers here. The fact they are locked in for 5 years is good to build on it,

If you 2 are so interested in facts, why do you just continue your circlejerk of garbage instead of responding to actual facts?

 

[yakstorm]

One thing PVL is very good at doing is getting other people to pay for his initiatives and this event is no different.

He got News/Fox to cover the additional broadcast costs and agree to send over journos, etc (although we know they love a junket). He's got the venue at a good rate because it wont be a clean event, meaning Allegiant Stadium members can attend and there is commercialisation they can do on the event in addition to what the NRL is selling.

Tourism Australia is contributing to the event because they are tagging onto our games to make an event similar to their GDay LA & GDay NY events (which is why other sports, like the boxing, is also being looked at), don't be surprised if they come on as an event day sponsor similar to what happened with the Rabbitohs v Leeds game in Jacksonville.

Fiji Airways has come onboard to cover most of the flights and there are some pretty significant companies who are buying out corporate hospitality, etc for the event, like Atlassian, Zoom, etc.

All in all, if the event is a flop, the NRL won't lose much coin from it, though they seem very confident and there is already provisional contracts in place for the following years.

Whether it can ever turn into the cash cow that PVL dreams about is debatable, but if it can break even, I can see the NRL pursuing it long term.

 

[abc]

This is not to say the NRL shouldn't try this and other bold initiatives, but a reality check is important for the US sports market. (lived here for 17yrs)

It is competitive, crowded, and parochial.

You have significant television/on demand viewership, live attendance, and revenue across this in male sports alone;
- American Football (Pro, College, High School)
- Basketball (Pro, College)
- Baseball (Pro - major/minor)
- Hockey (Pro)
- Automotive (NASCAR, IndyCar, and increasingly F1)
- Soccer Football (MLS, EPL)
- Golf (Pro)
- Tennis (Pro)
- X Games
- eSports
- Gambling sports (poker)
- Fight Sports (MMA, Boxing, Pro Wrestling)
- Collegiate Tier 2/3 events (Track & Field, Wrestling, Lacrosse, etc.)
- Major world events (Olympics, World Cup)

(and there is likely some I have missed)

Once you then add womens' sports of most of the types above, the fact that foreign high profile teams almost always play in US in off seasons (i.e. La Liga, Serie A, EPL), large diaspora followings of foreign sport (i.e. Mexican Americans with spanish language leagues, Indian Americans with cricket, etc.), you realize very quickly that while successfully breaking into this market is obviously lucrative, it is also one very large hill to climb.

The other thing that is important to note is the 340M number of US population and that is can be misleading. If you look at the 18+ audience below, +/-25-30% consider themselves avid sports fans, with a similar amount not sports fans at all.

It will be much harder to convert a casual sports (or non fan) to a new sport, when their current viewing and attendance probably consists of Super Bowl, their alumni college team, casually watching local team when with more avid fan friends or family, or support US teams/athletes at major events.

30% of the US adult population is approximately 90M. Successfully penetrating 1% of that audience now is only 900K.

source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1018802/sports-fans-usa-age/

All I will say finally is that this is a tall order. When a recap and post mortem of the performance happens, success should strip out attendance by Australian fans traveling and Aus expat australians in US/elsewhere because these are both mostly groups of existing fans and the goal is ultimately to convert a new audience and new incremental revenue streams.

Spending $200M over 5yrs for 900K potential new fans is an approximate cost per acquisition of $220 per fan. That along with both some sort of modelling on what an avg. fan is worth to NRL should be compared against any other investment the NRL could make, as well as any retention costs per fan to keep them engaged.

 

[Canard]

This is not to say the NRL shouldn't try this and other bold initiatives, but a reality check is important for the US sports market. (lived here for 17yrs)

It is competitive, crowded, and parochial.

You have significant television/on demand viewership, live attendance, and revenue across this in male sports alone;
- American Football (Pro, College, High School)
- Basketball (Pro, College)
- Baseball (Pro - major/minor)
- Hockey (Pro)
- Automotive (NASCAR, IndyCar, and increasingly F1)
- Soccer Football (MLS, EPL)
- Golf (Pro)
- Tennis (Pro)
- X Games
- eSports
- Gambling sports (poker)
- Fight Sports (MMA, Boxing, Pro Wrestling)
- Collegiate Tier 2/3 events (Track & Field, Wrestling, Lacrosse, etc.)
- Major world events (Olympics, World Cup)

(and there is likely some I have missed)

Once you then add womens' sports of most of the types above, the fact that foreign high profile teams almost always play in US in off seasons (i.e. La Liga, Serie A, EPL), large diaspora followings of foreign sport (i.e. Mexican Americans with spanish language leagues, Indian Americans with cricket, etc.), you realize very quickly that while successfully breaking into this market is obviously lucrative, it is also one very large hill to climb.

The other thing that is important to note is the 340M number of US population and that is can be misleading. If you look at the 18+ audience below, +/-25-30% consider themselves avid sports fans, with a similar amount not sports fans at all.

It will be much harder to convert a casual sports (or non fan) to a new sport, when their current viewing and attendance probably consists of Super Bowl, their alumni college team, casually watching local team when with more avid fan friends or family, or support US teams/athletes at major events.

30% of the US adult population is approximately 90M. Successfully penetrating 1% of that audience now is only 900K.

source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1018802/sports-fans-usa-age/

All I will say finally is that this is a tall order. When a recap and post mortem of the performance happens, success should strip out attendance by Australian fans traveling and Aus expat australians in US/elsewhere because these are both mostly groups of existing fans and the goal is ultimately to convert a new audience and new incremental revenue streams.

Spending $200M over 5yrs for 900K potential new fans is an approximate cost per acquisition of $220 per fan. That along with both some sort of modelling on what an avg. fan is worth to NRL should be compared against any other investment the NRL could make, as well as any retention costs per fan to keep them engaged.

This is by far the best most level headed post so far on the topic.

I'm blown away by how naive some are to this reality.

And that they think that all that it will take to make our great game successful in the US is to ask the TV channels nicely to broadcast it.

 

[blue bags]

This is not to say the NRL shouldn't try this and other bold initiatives, but a reality check is important for the US sports market. (lived here for 17yrs)

It is competitive, crowded, and parochial.

You have significant television/on demand viewership, live attendance, and revenue across this in male sports alone;
- American Football (Pro, College, High School)
- Basketball (Pro, College)
- Baseball (Pro - major/minor)
- Hockey (Pro)
- Automotive (NASCAR, IndyCar, and increasingly F1)
- Soccer Football (MLS, EPL)
- Golf (Pro)
- Tennis (Pro)
- X Games
- eSports
- Gambling sports (poker)
- Fight Sports (MMA, Boxing, Pro Wrestling)
- Collegiate Tier 2/3 events (Track & Field, Wrestling, Lacrosse, etc.)
- Major world events (Olympics, World Cup)

(and there is likely some I have missed)

Once you then add womens' sports of most of the types above, the fact that foreign high profile teams almost always play in US in off seasons (i.e. La Liga, Serie A, EPL), large diaspora followings of foreign sport (i.e. Mexican Americans with spanish language leagues, Indian Americans with cricket, etc.), you realize very quickly that while successfully breaking into this market is obviously lucrative, it is also one very large hill to climb.

The other thing that is important to note is the 340M number of US population and that is can be misleading. If you look at the 18+ audience below, +/-25-30% consider themselves avid sports fans, with a similar amount not sports fans at all.

It will be much harder to convert a casual sports (or non fan) to a new sport, when their current viewing and attendance probably consists of Super Bowl, their alumni college team, casually watching local team when with more avid fan friends or family, or support US teams/athletes at major events.

30% of the US adult population is approximately 90M. Successfully penetrating 1% of that audience now is only 900K.

source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1018802/sports-fans-usa-age/

All I will say finally is that this is a tall order. When a recap and post mortem of the performance happens, success should strip out attendance by Australian fans traveling and Aus expat australians in US/elsewhere because these are both mostly groups of existing fans and the goal is ultimately to convert a new audience and new incremental revenue streams.

Spending $200M over 5yrs for 900K potential new fans is an approximate cost per acquisition of $220 per fan. That along with both some sort of modelling on what an avg. fan is worth to NRL should be compared against any other investment the NRL could make, as well as any retention costs per fan to keep them engaged.

So what your saying is the Vibe is okay

 

[blue bags]

This is by far the best most level headed post so far on the topic.

I'm blown away by how naive some are to this reality.

And that they think that all that it will take to make our great game successful in the US is to ask the TV channels nicely to broadcast it.

We need the NRLW involved
Test matches NZ vs Australia
The USA women and men sports fans
Would be very surprised

 

[Iamback]

One thing PVL is very good at doing is getting other people to pay for his initiatives and this event is no different.

He got News/Fox to cover the additional broadcast costs and agree to send over journos, etc (although we know they love a junket). He's got the venue at a good rate because it wont be a clean event, meaning Allegiant Stadium members can attend and there is commercialisation they can do on the event in addition to what the NRL is selling.

Tourism Australia is contributing to the event because they are tagging onto our games to make an event similar to their GDay LA & GDay NY events (which is why other sports, like the boxing, is also being looked at), don't be surprised if they come on as an event day sponsor similar to what happened with the Rabbitohs v Leeds game in Jacksonville.

Fiji Airways has come onboard to cover most of the flights and there are some pretty significant companies who are buying out corporate hospitality, etc for the event, like Atlassian, Zoom, etc.

All in all, if the event is a flop, the NRL won't lose much coin from it, though they seem very confident and there is already provisional contracts in place for the following years.

Whether it can ever turn into the cash cow that PVL dreams about is debatable, but if it can break even, I can see the NRL pursuing it long term.

Good post. $200m was thrown around by media and assumed NRL was paying that

 

[blue bags]

Good post. $200m was thrown around by media and assumed NRL was paying that

No. Sponsor's are paying most of it
Please keep refreshed

 

[Iamback]

This is not to say the NRL shouldn't try this and other bold initiatives, but a reality check is important for the US sports market. (lived here for 17yrs)

It is competitive, crowded, and parochial.

You have significant television/on demand viewership, live attendance, and revenue across this in male sports alone;
- American Football (Pro, College, High School)
- Basketball (Pro, College)
- Baseball (Pro - major/minor)
- Hockey (Pro)
- Automotive (NASCAR, IndyCar, and increasingly F1)
- Soccer Football (MLS, EPL)
- Golf (Pro)
- Tennis (Pro)
- X Games
- eSports
- Gambling sports (poker)
- Fight Sports (MMA, Boxing, Pro Wrestling)
- Collegiate Tier 2/3 events (Track & Field, Wrestling, Lacrosse, etc.)
- Major world events (Olympics, World Cup)

(and there is likely some I have missed)

Once you then add womens' sports of most of the types above, the fact that foreign high profile teams almost always play in US in off seasons (i.e. La Liga, Serie A, EPL), large diaspora followings of foreign sport (i.e. Mexican Americans with spanish language leagues, Indian Americans with cricket, etc.), you realize very quickly that while successfully breaking into this market is obviously lucrative, it is also one very large hill to climb.

The other thing that is important to note is the 340M number of US population and that is can be misleading. If you look at the 18+ audience below, +/-25-30% consider themselves avid sports fans, with a similar amount not sports fans at all.

It will be much harder to convert a casual sports (or non fan) to a new sport, when their current viewing and attendance probably consists of Super Bowl, their alumni college team, casually watching local team when with more avid fan friends or family, or support US teams/athletes at major events.

30% of the US adult population is approximately 90M. Successfully penetrating 1% of that audience now is only 900K.

source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1018802/sports-fans-usa-age/

All I will say finally is that this is a tall order. When a recap and post mortem of the performance happens, success should strip out attendance by Australian fans traveling and Aus expat australians in US/elsewhere because these are both mostly groups of existing fans and the goal is ultimately to convert a new audience and new incremental revenue streams.

Spending $200M over 5yrs for 900K potential new fans is an approximate cost per acquisition of $220 per fan. That along with both some sort of modelling on what an avg. fan is worth to NRL should be compared against any other investment the NRL could make, as well as any retention costs per fan to keep them engaged.

Good post.

Though to that. Using the 900k fan figure you mentioned ( You'd have a better understanding then me)

This is likely way under selling their imput. They'd easy drop $100 a year each on Watch NRL, Merch, memberships etc,

Across 5 years, That comes in at $450m - So has doubled the $200m ( Although sponsors etc likely offset that.

I see that as a good outcome, Assuming they get the new fans continuing to spend money of course. If not it will barely break even over the 5 year period

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I have zero faith in super league

the only hope the sport has is the nrl and lucky for us it’s finally got a leader not a puppet

I know there's a lot of politics at play between the RFL and ARLC but we really need to pool our resources and move forward together under one banner. For me investment in France is low hanging fruit. G8 nation, history in the game, existing domestic league, existing squad full of pro players for the national team to work with. The ingredients are all there.

 

[comeinpeace]

I'm still trying to figure out how the NRL can gather any sort of meaningful gambling revenue from a presence in Las Vegas.

They receive the money in Australia from legislation-driven product fee and integrity agreements:

Sports wagering in NSW - Liquor & Gaming NSW

www.liquorandgaming.nsw.gov.au

NRL could have hands tied over extra betting revenue spend

The NRL could be forced to spend an extra $10 million per year on its integrity unit if it is able to push through a proposal for higher betting taxes.

www.smh.com.au

This happens simply because Australian law says it does.

However, this only covers Australian bookmakers - NRL gambling that exists in America (which it already does) is under no obligation to use official data, except for Illinois and Tennessee: https://www.legalsportsreport.com/official-league-data/)

Of course, the big US sports make money from sports gambling by selling official data - the sport updating the official live score simultaneously puts it on a data pipeline to the bookmaker, which helps with the speed live scoreboards get updated, markets get settled, reduces in-game suspension of markets. But this is more relevant for live betting (which only exists with phone betting in Australia so we don't have the infrastructure), for bigger sports where such a time advantage matters, etc. I can't see a universe, even if NRL becomes a betting relevant event in the US, where paying the NRL for a split second speed in data is cost-effective for US bookmakers.

Say that the NRL gathers both betting and general interest in America - what's stopping a US-bookmaker so say "thanks, while there is some betting interest, it's not worth us paying money to the NRL - we're happy to offer odds unofficially and offer live odds by having someone simply watch the game on TV" - and the NRL doesn't have a legal leg to stand on, nor can it claim any sort of revenue, except for Illinois and Tennesee as listed above. In fact, there are far more popular betting sports that many bookmakers in the US don't pay anyone for data, and it's chugging along fine - think many soccer leagues in the world, for instance.

It's just bizarre to me people throw their arms in the air like some religious cult and say "gambling revenue" without looking at how it actually gets generated both here and in the US. Therefore, I'm still trying to figure out how the NRL can gather any sort of meaningful gambling revenue from a presence in Las Vegas.

 

[Wb1234]

You opened an account to post that ?
Lmao

 

[comeinpeace]

You opened an account to post that ?
Lmao

Anything on the substance of what I posted?

 

[Iamback]

Haha. If there is one thing PVL knows it is gambling