The Myth of Millward

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Well you do point out some brilliant facts.

1. At the time Mullholland was considered one of the best recruiters. he soon learned that he was to dance to the tune of Craig Young and Peter Doust who would have to be two of the worst SGI have ever had involved in recruiting.
2. If we compared Canberra's roster in 2019 to ours - especially their backline - there is no comparison. Mullholland is doing a great job.
3. Millward was appointed to his current position without any proper process being followed; he was just given the job.

For what it's worth, Mullholland was sold a dump. He spent a lot of time unravelling our salary cap mess and got us back on track financially.
Whatever he tried to do was interfered with by the old boys club and finally he got up and left out of total frustration.
I totally agree that Mullhollannd is one of the top recruiting brains in the business and doesn't have a thing to prove to anyone. He has the runs on the board!
If he was given the respect and space to implement his recruitment strategy, I venture to say we would be better off today than what we have become under McGregor/Millward.
Millward has made some good signings such as Vaughn but has totally stuffed up the three quarter line.
We basically don't have one and the sooner we own up to it the sooner we can fix it.
Our wing recruitment since last year is laughable.
There is no doubt that all the McGregor nonsense of finally having "the team he wanted" is starting to look pretty stupid by now.

 

[ebbedfred]

Well you do point out some brilliant facts.

1. At the time Mullholland was considered one of the best recruiters. he soon learned that he was to dance to the tune of Craig Young and Peter Doust who would have to be two of the worst SGI have ever had involved in recruiting.
2. If we compared Canberra's roster in 2019 to ours - especially their backline - there is no comparison. Mullholland is doing a great job.
3. Millward was appointed to his current position without any proper process being followed; he was just given the job.

Calls me out for giving my opinion stating sarcastically I used no facts.... proceeds to give his opinion with no facts as well. You actually may be right and I do agree with most of what you said, but it’s still opinion.

 

[Coffs dragon]

Whether it's Millward or Mullholland it doesn't really matter! How can you fly like an Eagle when you are surrounded by Turkeys.
Until they remove the Head Turkey coach our recruitment resembles a mix of lucky dip, dart board targets or bargain unwanted players from other clubs.
It would be an unenviable job taking advice from the Turkey whilst copping the deflection for roster failings caused by the team he wanted.

 

[Carlton]

I’m unknown to all except for a few..

And Mary isn’t on the forum, so that part is irrelevant.. We’re discussing the word of those on here..


That being said though.. I wouldn’t trust this face..

would you?

If we shouldn't take the word of people on the forum and we shouldn't take the word of someone if they're not on the forum, doesn't leave much.

And why wouldn't I trust that face ( I'm throwing up at this point), the journos do.

 

[possm]

Yes- this could happen by default, because of the NRL's incompetence in not factoring the difficulty SGI will have in getting a suitable replacement for De Belin by 30 June. Merrin is reported to have shut down speculation of a return to SGI but, as things stand, what can SGI offer him or anyone else for that matter?. A short-term, vague, indeterminate contract- with an end date depending on a court process- hardly likely to induce a player with a 4 year contract to ask for a release!.

If Johnston had some kahunas, he would be publicly criticising the mess that the NRL's action has created for the Dragons ( and more importantly their long-suffering members and supporters). He would be demanding that we be allowed to sign a 31st player (ie in addition to De Belin) on a minimum of a two year (preferably three year) contract and that if De Belin is found innocent and returns to playing, SGI be allowed to register the 31st player for the duration of that 2/3 year contract irrespective of any deal that is done with De Belin. This is the only way we can be competitive with other clubs and attract the right type of player.

Compensation is a separate but more complex issue which Johnston should also be pursuing-I'm not holding my breath.

Unfortunately, my view is that Johnston, Millward and Mary are all incompetent and should not be in their roles because there was not a competitive application/appointment selection system.

For as long as there is no system of accountability for St George appointees to the Board, there will be the same in-action and incompetence.

I say that full members of St George Leagues Club should be the ones to elect their representatives to the Board each year.

 

[muzby]

If we shouldn't take the word of people on the forum and we shouldn't take the word of someone if they're not on the forum, doesn't leave much.

I didn’t say anything not to take the word of everyone not on the forum, just one particular person..

Why would you lump everyone in the same basket?

Unless of course you are saying that somehow Mary has infiltrated our minds and that we are all Mary?

That’s some Malkovich shit right there..

 

[giboz71]

For what it's worth, Mullholland was sold a dump. He spent a lot of time unravelling our salary cap mess and got us back on track financially.
Whatever he tried to do was interfered with by the old boys club and finally he got up and left out of total frustration.
I totally agree that Mullhollannd is one of the top recruiting brains in the business and doesn't have a thing to prove to anyone. He has the runs on the board!
If he was given the respect and space to implement his recruitment strategy, I venture to say we would be better off today than what we have become under McGregor/Millward.
Millward has made some good signings such as Vaughn but has totally stuffed up the three quarter line.
We basically don't have one and the sooner we own up to it the sooner we can fix it.
Our wing recruitment since last year is laughable.
There is no doubt that all the McGregor nonsense of finally having "the team he wanted" is starting to look pretty stupid by now.

I agree about the centres and wingers, that is a clear weakness in the team.

But what about our halves and forwards? A halves trio of Hunt, Norman and Widdop, most teams would kill for. Same with our pack - Vaughan, Sims, Friz, James Graham, JDB before he got suspended.

Why not exploit our strengths effectively rather than focusing on our weaknesses?

Teams have won comps before with slow or inexperienced backlines (Souths 2014, Cows 2015 are 2 examples off the top of my head).

The difference being, these teams had a coach that exploited their strengths (such as halves and forwards) to counter their weaknesses.

We don't have such a coach.

 

[ebbedfred]

I agree about the centres and wingers, that is a clear weakness in the team.

But what about our halves and forwards? A halves trio of Hunt, Norman and Widdop, most teams would kill for. Same with our pack - Vaughan, Sims, Friz, James Graham, JDB before he got suspended.

Why not exploit our strengths effectively rather than focusing on our weaknesses?

Teams have won comps before with slow or inexperienced backlines (Souths 2014, Cows 2015 are 2 examples off the top of my head).

The difference being, these teams had a coach that exploited their strengths (such as halves and forwards) to counter their weaknesses.

We don't have such a coach.

Absolutely agree.

For me, Millward isn't doing the best job, but he's not doing the worst.

The main reason I believe this is because I honestly think with a great coach (Bellamy, Bennett, Robinson) we'd be a contender right now, a top 4 team.
With a good coach (numerous possibilties) we'd be only a couple of players short of being a top 4 team. At least 1 winger (2 would be great) and either a fullback and a centre depending where you want to play Lomax.

I am happy with our forward pack (when they are all available), I know will some will say Graham is past it, sure, he's not in his prime but I still think he brings value to the team and you can't have all superstars playing in their prime at once. Our bench could be decent, the right bench just doesn't get selected.

Unfortunately though, you can have the best team in the world, if the coach is picking the wrong team, and implementing poor structures everything else wont matter. That has to be the first thing changed.

 

[possm]

Absolutely agree.

For me, Millward isn't doing the best job, but he's not doing the worst.

The main reason I believe this is because I honestly think with a great coach (Bellamy, Bennett, Robinson) we'd be a contender right now, a top 4 team.
With a good coach (numerous possibilties) we'd be only a couple of players short of being a top 4 team. At least 1 winger (2 would be great) and either a fullback and a centre depending where you want to play Lomax.

I am happy with our forward pack (when they are all available), I know will some will say Graham is past it, sure, he's not in his prime but I still think he brings value to the team and you can't have all superstars playing in their prime at once. Our bench could be decent, the right bench just doesn't get selected.

Unfortunately though, you can have the best team in the world, if the coach is picking the wrong team, and implementing poor structures everything else wont matter. That has to be the first thing changed.

A good coach such as the ones you mentioned would insist on having complete control over recruitment/pathways/retention. I am sure they would agree to keeping Millward on but only if he reported to the head coach.

So there you have it. Now tell me why we cannot attract a good coach of similar talent to the people you mentioned above?

 

[Carlton]

I didn’t say anything not to take the word of everyone not on the forum, just one particular person..

Why would you lump everyone in the same basket?

Unless of course you are saying that somehow Mary has infiltrated our minds and that we are all Mary?

That’s some Malkovich shit right there..

What do you think the situation is with Millward?

On second thought don't bother, I couldn't careless about some random on the internet talking about a third party. Maybe you're actually Mary sometimes your arguments sound a hell of a lot like his press conferences.

 

[Carlton]

Unfortunately, my view is that Johnston, Millward and Mary are all incompetent and should not be in their roles because there was not a competitive application/appointment selection system.

For as long as there is no system of accountability for St George appointees to the Board, there will be the same in-action and incompetence.

I say that full members of St George Leagues Club should be the ones to elect their representatives to the Board each year.

I agree 100% with this Possm except for the last sentence. Unfortunately its been stacked so that any influence full membership may have on them is years down the track (remember the changes made).

 

[ebbedfred]

A good coach such as the ones you mentioned would insist on having complete control over recruitment/pathways/retention. I am sure they would agree to keeping Millward on but only if he reported to the head coach.

So there you have it. Now tell me why we cannot attract a good coach of similar talent to the people you mentioned above?

Why can't we attract a good coach? Well, the answer is maybe we can, and choose not to and stick with Mary for whatever ridiculous reason. Either way, that falls back on the board for which they SHOULD be accountable on, and is a whole other issue.

I agree a good coach SHOULD have final say on retention, they would need a man to do the leg work, the negotiation, but they should defintely have a say on potential targets. Mary saying he plays no part in it I don't believe, that's just what he says so he doesn't have to talk about it publicly (eg the Dugan drama) to the press, and has the added bonus for him that it can also be an excuse for him when things go pear shaped.

 

[giboz71]

Why can't we attract a good coach? Well, the answer is maybe we can, and choose not to and stick with Mary for whatever ridiculous reason. Either way, that falls back on the board for which they SHOULD be accountable on, and is a whole other issue.

I agree a good coach SHOULD have final say on retention, they would need a man to do the leg work, the negotiation, but they should defintely have a say on potential targets. Mary saying he plays no part in it I don't believe, that's just what he says so he doesn't have to talk about it publicly (eg the Dugan drama) to the press, and has the added bonus for him that it can also be an excuse for him when things go pear shaped.

Surely Millward and Mary collaborate regarding the roster, What is stated publicly is well and good, but if the coach and the pathways director aren't on the same page, it would all fall to shit.

If Millward is judged on managing our cap, retaining our best juniors and making judicious pick ups in the market, he is a strong pass mark at worst. We're a small market club with little or no TPA's so being able to get Ben Hunt, Corey Norman, Cam McInnes, James Graham. Tariq Sims and Paul Vaughan is a pretty impressive list.

We have more than enough talent in the club to compete with the best teams. Imagine a coach like Bellamy developing the likes Dufty and Field. Or Host, Lawrie and Leilua? Look how good Papenhuyzen is going and he's the same size as Field/Dufty.

Nah sorry. Mary and his crew have to carry the can on this one. No way he can blame the roster for our season falling to shit.

 

[muzby]

What do you think the situation is with Millward?

On second thought don't bother, I couldn't careless about some random on the internet talking about a third party. Maybe you're actually Mary sometimes your arguments sound a hell of a lot like his press conferences.

If I provide you my opinion would you then use it as the source of truth to refer others to?

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I agree about the centres and wingers, that is a clear weakness in the team.

But what about our halves and forwards? A halves trio of Hunt, Norman and Widdop, most teams would kill for. Same with our pack - Vaughan, Sims, Friz, James Graham, JDB before he got suspended.

Why not exploit our strengths effectively rather than focusing on our weaknesses?

Teams have won comps before with slow or inexperienced backlines (Souths 2014, Cows 2015 are 2 examples off the top of my head).

The difference being, these teams had a coach that exploited their strengths (such as halves and forwards) to counter their weaknesses.

We don't have such a coach.

Sorry to say that any success we have enjoyed has been on the back of our forwards.
Even the much vaunted halves trio you mention have struggled if our forwards don't dominate.
McGregor's idea of exploiting our strengths is to use our forward pack like a battering ram and using 3 interchanges off the bench instead of 4.
Result is the same every year.
Our illustrious coach is not qualified to coach FG and worst of all, has very little footy IQ to speak of.
Suffer the poor fans.

 

[Carlton]

If I provide you my opinion would you then use it as the source of truth to refer others to?

No trust me Muzby I wouldn't use you as truth for others.

 

[possm]

Surely Millward and Mary collaborate regarding the roster, What is stated publicly is well and good, but if the coach and the pathways director aren't on the same page, it would all fall to shit.

If Millward is judged on managing our cap, retaining our best juniors and making judicious pick ups in the market, he is a strong pass mark at worst. We're a small market club with little or no TPA's so being able to get Ben Hunt, Corey Norman, Cam McInnes, James Graham. Tariq Sims and Paul Vaughan is a pretty impressive list.

We have more than enough talent in the club to compete with the best teams. Imagine a coach like Bellamy developing the likes Dufty and Field. Or Host, Lawrie and Leilua? Look how good Papenhuyzen is going and he's the same size as Field/Dufty.

Nah sorry. Mary and his crew have to carry the can on this one. No way he can blame the roster for our season falling to shit.

I'm sorry but you could never give a 'strong pass mark' when SGI are given such a poor backline like this one of 2019. We need new centres and wingers who have speed and are of true first grade quality. A player like Saab may be the exception if he is placed on the left wing after June 30 this year. He may just play himself into the run on 13 in 2020.

 

[BLM01]

Surely Millward and Mary collaborate regarding the roster, What is stated publicly is well and good, but if the coach and the pathways director aren't on the same page, it would all fall to shit.

If Millward is judged on managing our cap, retaining our best juniors and making judicious pick ups in the market, he is a strong pass mark at worst. We're a small market club with little or no TPA's so being able to get Ben Hunt, Corey Norman, Cam McInnes, James Graham. Tariq Sims and Paul Vaughan is a pretty impressive list.

We have more than enough talent in the club to compete with the best teams. Imagine a coach like Bellamy developing the likes Dufty and Field. Or Host, Lawrie and Leilua? Look how good Papenhuyzen is going and he's the same size as Field/Dufty.

Nah sorry. Mary and his crew have to carry the can on this one. No way he can blame the roster for our season falling to shit.

100% he gets a say in hiring and firing and probably the final one except he does not talk or manage the money side as that is where he stood down from..not from recruiting as such but managing or assisting with the process of working out money / player values and fitting into our cap and roster...especially as we are working out cap rosters, weighing up values and players for seasons 2020 and 2021 and beyond as has to be done this far in advance....just like every club
Every coach says this is who I want or dont..make it happen if possible
Other clubs can make things happen easily than others..that is the main difference between all 16 in regards to recruitment
Dont forget top line players are thinning and if you look at whose available each year..only a few clubs have what you call good strong rosters across the 17 players....fact of the NRL now and in the future unless major cap value changes happen like a points system managed and updated annually by the NRL that works elsewhere.

 

[muzby]

No trust me Muzby I wouldn't use you as truth for others.

I wouldn’t either..

But why would you use dragonsamy?

He’s just as full of it as I am..

 

[Carlton]

I wouldn’t either..

But why would you use dragonsamy?

He’s just as full of it as I am..

I'm sorry, I'll quote you next time Muzby, that was very insensitive of me.