The Origin vs Nation debate...

[Southern Rooster]

i dunno if anyone else saw it on the news last week but adrian morley is applying for australian citizenship and they say he could be eligable to play origin despite representing another country. but if he get citizenship, what could you do in that case?

in regards to kiwis playing origin, just look at the motto for origin over 25 years:

'state against state, mate against mate.' pure and simple.

Adrian Morley should not be allowed to play Origin either as a representative of Great Britain.

 

[ozbash]

will brad thorn play ?

 

[coldhardbitch]

Simple. cutie, SBW and co, should all play for NZ, Morley for GB and so forth.

SOO is losing its appeal anyway. I get 1000 times more excited for the tri-nations

 

[griff]

SOO is losing its appeal anyway. I get 1000 times more excited for the tri-nations

Unfortunately you are well and truly in the minority.

Test football needs to be preserved and built up, and allowing non-Aus players to play Origin would just position SOO above test football.

 

[mr panama]

the way the international game is these days, you would have to say that origin is already in front of tests when it comes to intensity and the way the game is played. it's full-on for 80 minutes. i think the players take origin more seriously than tests these days especially after the way we dominate international league.

 

[griff]

That's true, but going along with this idea would just make Origin even more important and test football even less important. We need to do the opposite.

 

[Jordan]

I don't think Kiwi's should be allowed to pledge there allegiance to a particular country.. If they were born in NZ, they are a Kiwi and shouldn't be allowed to play.. There might be some exceptions, like if they move to Australia when they're 2 years old or something. But if they move when they're 16..have a NZ accent and have a maori tattoo on there arm.. they should not be allowed..

Also.. regarding the whole debate of kiwis playing for QLD or NSW and representing NZ in tests... All it would do is increase NSW's player stocks. There are only 2 Queensland clubs compared to the 11 or so in NSW.. Most kiwi's would be therefore considered eligible for NSW.

 

[mr panama]

and that were to happen, origin could turn into the way state games were in the 60's and 70's with nsw dominating all the time. adding kiwis into the mix would only be diluting the origin concept.

 

[Southern Rooster]

the way the international game is these days, you would have to say that origin is already in front of tests when it comes to intensity and the way the game is played. it's full-on for 80 minutes. i think the players take origin more seriously than tests these days especially after the way we dominate international league.

We would not dominate the International game if we played more internationals. GB and NZ get close to us then we do not play them for a while and the interest in the international game dies down. Barring the final where GB were terrible the Tri Nation series was great. Should be played every 4 years though with GB touring Aust every two years and tests between Aus and NZ every year. I liked Ricky Stuarts idea of a Pacific Island side as well.

 

[mr panama]

don't get me wrong here, i thoroughly enjoyed watching the tri-nations last year. it was probably the most exciting test series for the last 10 or so years. and on their day the poms and kiwis are big threats. but we haven't lost a series in over 30 years and our 3rd-string team swept the lions in (who are now deservingly no 2 in the world) in britain in 03. we are on another level compared to the rest of the world.

i agree with having a tri-nations every 4 years. it would become stale if we have it at the end of each season. why can't we get the poms to play down here for once. wouldmake a plesant change than the usual routine of going abroad every year.

 

[Iafeta]

State of Origin players need to be the players that are available to play for Australia.

Karmichael Hunt has been representing QLD since he was 11.

11. Geez, don't let facts stand in the way of a good story.

He wasn't in the country till he was 12 and a half.

 

[Iafeta]

I remember Hunt being interviewed and he was asked if he wanted the All Blacks or Wallabies to win. He said he has always supported the All Blacks. Therefore he is a Kiwi.

Simple solution, make the Origin rule based on where you played your first junior RL or RU. Hunt played for South Auckland. Therefore he is a Kiwi.

Sounds like you are basing it on which RU team you support! :roll: :roll:

No. On which country he supports. This is an example of him being supposedly a Kiwi, but as far as I'm concerned he can go f**k himself and have nothing ever to do with New Zealand again. He's a Bennedict Arnold.

Clearly the reason he's chosen Australia is for Origin reasons. Which is a sad indictment on our game that we've let a state competion undermine the international game.

 

[douglasallen91]

It's rubbish all NZ players should be playing for NZ and our game should be promoting Aus v NZ as a big game and an event exactly as the RU market the Bledisloe Cup. NZ have a great crop of youngsters at the moment and it would be a big shame for the league not to be using that to forge a stronger International game between our two nations.

what nz players shouldn't be playing for nz but if they don't use them its a big shame.

i am lost

 

[ali]

The problem is Origin is so attractive that it has dragged cutie away from representing NZ. For mine Origin should be available for anyone who grew up in Australia, but not necessarily mean you have to play for Australia. This would rule SBW inelligable, as he moved here to play footy.

The strength or Origin is weakening international footy. Hunt is a massive loss for the Kiwis and if neville Costigan gets picked for QLD this year, that is a big blow for PNG. He should be able to play for PNG and QLD.

Soccer is the same, Ryan Giggs played for England schoolboys but represents Wales.

Ryan Giggs grew up in England. His dad moved there from Wales to play Rugby League for Swinton.

 

[griff]

Excatly, he went to school in England the same way Benji and Karmichael went to school in Australia. So where you grow up/who you represent at schoolboy level shouldn't necessarily determine what nation/state you represent at senior level.

I agree that the strength of Origin is weakening international footy, so how can it help international footy to further strengthen Origin by allowing international players in?

I know you don't agree with SBW and Morley playing Origin, but there are people (ie Gus) who think it is a good idea. But if you can watch SBW, Morley, Hunt, Webcke, Lockyer over 3 games in Origin, what extra incentive is there to go watch the Tri-nations? If the Tri-Nations was the only place you could see them it would make it that much more successful.

It would be better for the international game to restrict Origin eligiblity to base it on where you played your first football. If it wasn't in NSW or Qld, then sorry you should go represent wherever it was you first played instead (eg NZ).

 

[Mr_Raditch]

Kiwi's shouldn't be allowed to play origin pure & simple. If they were born in New Zealand they play for New Zealand, even if they moved over here when they were 2 weeks old. It might sound a bit extreme but that would make the rule clear cut. New Zealand needs a strong rep side for the good of the international game.
Qld should never be allowed to play kiwi's in their team. How can they call Tonnie Carroll a Qlder when he's represented NZ & seeing him in an AUS jumper was an absolute disgrace, especially when there were many more players more deserving of his position, the ARL should have never even let Bennet consider the option of putting him in the team. Or how could Brad Thorn play for Qld & then play yawnion for the all blacks, should have neverbeen allowed to play origin. Hunt shouldn't even be considered for Qld. Having non NSWelshman & Qlanders in the teams takes away from origin. Hopefully the ARL, NSWRL & ESPECIALLY the QRL will listen to fans on this one
WE DONT WANT KIWI'S PLAYING ORIGIN!!!!!!!! :x :x

 

[girvie]

If anyone has heard Karmichael Hunt in an interview they will hear his strong Kiwi accent. To me that means he is a Kiwi and should play for New Zealand if they want him (which they do).

 

[rugged]

State of Origin players need to be the players that are available to play for Australia.

Karmichael Hunt has been representing QLD since he was 11.

11. Geez, don't let facts stand in the way of a good story.

He wasn't in the country till he was 12 and a half.

Sorry if I'm wrong but I had heard he repped for QLD in primary schoolboys. And if that were the case he would have been 11 and a half as he left school when he'd just turned 17.

 

[League Freak™]

State Of Origin Eligibility Rules
I believe there should be two rules to cover who can play State Of Origin football.

1. You should be a naturalized Australia and therefore eligible to play for Australia.

2. You should have played your first junior football for the state you have been selected for.

Anyone who does not forfil those two requirements should not be allowed to play in the State Of Origin series.


International Eligibility Rules
To play for a Rugby League nation you should a naturalized citizen of that nation.

If you were born somewhere else and you REALLY want to play for the nation you live in, prove it. Become naturalized and show you really are a citizen of that nation in every way.

Outside of this, I do no support players playing for more then one nation. I do not support players being drafted into a team one the "Grandparent" rule.

I think the IRLF should take an active role in this area and with the support of its member nations it should put this one
simple rule in place to bring back some credibility in International Rugby League.

I know I would have no problems if Tonie Carroll played for Australia after going through the naturalization process....but fans wont cop seeing Queenslander Brent Webb play for New Zealand just because he played for the Warriors in the NRL for four years

 

[Trollhammaren]

I remember Hunt being interviewed and he was asked if he wanted the All Blacks or Wallabies to win. He said he has always supported the All Blacks. Therefore he is a Kiwi.

I always support the Mongolian Rugby Union team, therefore I am Mongolian right? :roll:


And I agree no Kiwis, ie. SBW, Marshall, Hunt etc. should be playing Origin. Origin has only become the the premier form of football because the best players have been from those states, but as the game is obviously growing in NZ and England etc. I think, the goal, always should be to have Internationals the highest form of football. Therefore, no Kiwis in Origin.