The Problem With Gould

[herbert henry1908]

Just wondering what everyone will think of Gould if the current rumour of Coote leaving is true.

Could be some mighty angry fans for a few years at least.

Of course these things can be forgotten if we can get results.

At this stage its only a rumour though.

 

[chanticleer]

Now you're just talking rubbish.

Phil Gould had nothing to do with the recruitment of mason or o'melley.

I doubt he even had much to do with anasta or charlie tonga. Ricky stuart was the man responsible there.


Im stunned you refuse to address the turn around of the roosters under gould.

It couldnt be more clear. Continuing to ignore it makes it clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

1994- 3rd last
1995-9th
1996- 4th
1997-5th
1998-6th
1999- 4th

Gould was the greatest NSW coach in history...

 

[chanticleer]

Now you're just talking rubbish.

Phil Gould had nothing to do with the recruitment of mason or o'melley.

I doubt he even had much to do with anasta or charlie tonga. Ricky stuart was the man responsible there.


Im stunned you refuse to address the turn around of the roosters under gould.

It couldnt be more clear. Continuing to ignore it makes it clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

1994- 3rd last
1995-9th
1996- 4th
1997-5th
1998-6th
1999- 4th

h h i wouldnt be commenting on Gould if I didnt know what went on at the roosters ... take the hint

Those names plus brian smith was all the work of gould

yet you still want to talk about coaching, how you think he went as coach is irrelevant (I think he was a good coach and the best ever for NSW yet that still hasnt blinded me from potential concerns with the way we will go under his hands)

Thats my final post on Gould hopefully he recruits a couple of decent players before next season because the team is lacking in areas

 

[herbert henry1908]

h h i wouldnt be commenting on Gould if I didnt know what went on at the roosters ... take the hint

Those names plus brian smith was all the work of gould

yet you still want to talk about coaching, how you think he went as coach is irrelevant (I think he was a good coach and the best ever for NSW yet that still hasnt blinded me from potential concerns with the way we will go under his hands)

Thats my final post on Gould hopefully he recruits a couple of decent players before next season because the team is lacking in areas

Dont make claims you cant back up.

If you cant talk about how you know , you shouldnt have mentioned it without a source.

There is simply no proof gould was responsible for the recruitment pf the players you have mentioned as he had no official capacity at the roosters at the time.


His results as the roosters coach arent just indicative of his coaching abilities , they clearly point towards his recruitment aswell.

You dont coach a team for 6 years without a massive say in recruitment.

 

[chanticleer]

Dont make claims you cant back up.

If you cant talk about how you know , you shouldnt have mentioned it without a source.

There is simply no proof gould was responsible for the recruitment pf the players you have mentioned as he had no official capacity at the roosters at the time.


His results as the roosters coach arent just indicative of his coaching abilities , they clearly point towards his recruitment aswell.

You dont coach a team for 6 years without a massive say in recruitment.

HH for those that know me on the forums I used to be employed by the club, my time with te roosters was from 1997 to late 2005, and I have to make it clear that I am not a former "disgruntled" employee, and I found Gus to be very approachable and his knowledge about rugby league cannot be questioned. He is an intelligent guy and was a good coach. The players all liked him. None of this is in question. There is no agenda.

Putting my experience with the Roosters aside, the players I mentioned earlier were all brought after the Gould era during the Murrays time and Arthur Beetson was responsible for the recruitment of many of the players you mention like Cross, Flannery Hodges and Crocker etc that is fact...

Gould during 2002 re joined the club and sort of oversaw all the operations from above the coach and he worked closely with Politis who pretty much gave the final yes and no (which was largely based on Goulds advice). Gus had a say and input in alot of different aspects related to the club the same sort of role he plays now here... So I ask if Gould was indeed the maestro and guru you make him out to be who did he recruit to the roosters that went and kicked on after he took an this overseeing role in 2002?

Chris Walker?
Brett Finch?

All the players you mentioned were either already at the club when he was there and were nearing the end of their careers and the others that went on and played a big role from 2002-2004 were brought in under Murrays regime when Gould was not around

Murray brang Morley over - FACT
Murray gave Minichiello a call up to first grade - FACT
Justin Hodges, Flannery, Hegarty and Crocker were identified by Beetson - FACT



So its clear that the majority of the significant signings that played a major role from 2002 from 2004 were the work of others

Your man Gould did identify Finch who in fairness was a good junior player but wasnt a great success in NRL and also convinced Chris Walker to join the Roosters after he walked out of South Sydney

During Goulds time at the Roosters from 2002-2004 recruitment could hardly be described as a success

If you actually know any Rooster supporters ask them their thoughts on Gould and image you will soon find out he isnt held in the highest esteem by any stretch.

You point to the roosters strong results after the mid 90s, thats a pointless cause no one has questioned Gus as a coach, he isnt coaching anymore, but just on that point many would say Brad Fittler was the most significant factor

That said I hope he is successful here although I have my doubts, and the way the roster is right now for 2012 I would say the squad has been weakened under Goulds watch

Lets see if he addresses the roster issues especially an addition of at least 1 good second rower and 1 good prop, and many supporters I know feel we would need a few more additions on top of that

 

[franklin2323]

Just wondering what everyone will think of Gould if the current rumour of Coote leaving is true.

Hopefully nothing comes of it. If true plenty of outrage especially as Gordon comes off contract next year & at 29 probably only has 1 contract after that.

 

[Hooch]

The difficulty with Gould is whatever he brings with a bit of football nous and intelligence he also brings a lot of mind games and underhandedness.

Frankly I think the position of coaching director is usually created to undermine the coach and I am amazed an experienced coach like Cleary signed up, but he must know he needs to get out of the Warriors before he is pushed at some stage.

You guys just better hope there is some pretty clear role differences and if they are wise they will get Gould to put a broom through then move him on as you either coach or you dont, you cant be half pregnant.

Also Gould was behind Anasta. I think Anasta hasnt been a bad signing by any means considering the state of the market at the time. He had one shithouse season but he had a groin injury, they f**k ya.

Once Cleary comes in he needs to be given control.

 

[age.s]

The incoming coach was always going to get complete control of the team, with Gould handling what would normally be the CEOs duties and junior development. No reason to think that's changed.

If Coote signed with Souffs tomorrow, would Gould or Cleary take the rap? Gould obviously, but Cleary would be having more input into recruitment now than anyone would give him credit for. Maybe the public perception is a good thing at this point.

 

[Hooch]

As if Gould will be content to adopt a backroom role and stay out of the 1st grade footy side of things. This is Phil Gould we're talking about.

 

[age.s]

So we need to hope there's a clear definition in roles but there's no chance of clear definition in roles because "it's Gould we're talking about?"

Fact is there is clear definition of roles, they just have to be stuck to. Having a head coach who works well with Gould was always going to be important, and I think Cleary fits that bill, but you could say that of any coach/CEO relationship.

 

[herbert henry1908]

You point to the roosters strong results after the mid 90s, thats a pointless cause no one has questioned Gus as a coach, he isnt coaching anymore, but just on that point many would say Brad Fittler was the most significant factor

My Point is not regarding his coaching during this period.

It is that he was ultimately responsible during his time as head coach for retention & recruitment.

Something he clearly did well given the results he got with that team.

Gould may be a great coach , but every great coach needs the cattle.



His retention & recruitment during the late 90's lead to the roosters making a GF appearance with the team he put together and then 50% of that team went on to win the 2002 GF.

It is unlikely the players you have mentioned would have even come to the club had gould not turned them around.

Simple fact is Gould built the nucleus of the team that won in 2002. You cant get away from that.

 

[Hooch]

So we need to hope there's a clear definition in roles but there's no chance of clear definition in roles because "it's Gould we're talking about?"

Pretty much. You'll see.

 

[Iafeta]

The difficulty with Gould is whatever he brings with a bit of football nous and intelligence he also brings a lot of mind games and underhandedness.

Frankly I think the position of coaching director is usually created to undermine the coach and I am amazed an experienced coach like Cleary signed up, but he must know he needs to get out of the Warriors before he is pushed at some stage.

You guys just better hope there is some pretty clear role differences and if they are wise they will get Gould to put a broom through then move him on as you either coach or you dont, you cant be half pregnant.

Also Gould was behind Anasta. I think Anasta hasnt been a bad signing by any means considering the state of the market at the time. He had one shithouse season but he had a groin injury, they f**k ya.

Once Cleary comes in he needs to be given control.

I don't think there was ever any intention to push Cleary out at the Warriors. Take 2009 as an example of their faith in him. The Warriors ran 2nd last after being one of the pre-season favourites for the comp.... rather than sack him that year, they resigned him for I think it was 3 years at the time. They were fairly explicit in their media handling in promoting him in the eyes of John Hart as a future supercoach (they were Hart's words). It was an amazing show of faith, I'm not sure many would have stuck by him like that.

I do know that Wayne Scurrah (CEO) is from a corporate background, and he was very much of the opinion that the bar for Cleary should be set higher and higher given the length of time he was involved in the job, but I'm not sure he was ever in the firing line. I think they just wanted to see what was available next year rather than commit ahead of time given he was already under contract.

 

[murraymob]

not suprised to hear in the morning papers he is on 400k a year.His coaching credentials are up there with the best.But his recruitment will start to come into question given that as this stage we have signed 5 second tier players with no major signing.

Based on last nights results and who is leaving its hard to see next years squad rising from anywhere near bottom 4 to 5.That in itself has to put presure on negotiations with our major sponsor Sanyo who are deciding if to stay or go.

Mr Gould needs to be full time for that sort of money.I do believe he is the right choice to turn things around.I just hope its not to long turn for the results to happen as the sponsor and fan base will erode with each year of being at the bottom

 

[franklin2323]

Yeah I guessed around the $500k mark. For that kind of money he would need to improve the bottomline. For that to happen we need a exciting team winning games. Then the sponsors, fans & merchandise will improve.

Sadly the spoon next year won't help

 

[betcats]

Yeah I guessed around the $500k mark. For that kind of money he would need to improve the bottomline. For that to happen we need a exciting team winning games. Then the sponsors, fans & merchandise will improve.

Sadly the spoon next year won't help

Its decided is it? Your a sad merkin, f**k me.

 

[goosie]

lol we will finish higher than this year trust me.

 

[franklin2323]

I hope not. I will still go to every game next year However as we fill more places with weaker players the more likely we will be down there. When the odds come out. The favourites for the spoon will be us, Sharks & Canberra.

Who under or around us on the table hasn't got a stronger squad on paper?? When is the last time Jennings, Coote or Lewis have got through a season unhurt?? Never so we need extra depth. I will be hoped to be proven wrong

 

[franklin2323]

It's not just the weak roster a new coach has new structure's, a new personality. It usually takes a good 18months to get used to that. What if we have personality clashes & players want out??

It's not unheard of for the new coach to have clashes with the playing staff. Especially with how liked ME & SG were. Hopefully we go all smoothly and go well. I will still be cheering win, lose or draw not all fans will. That's my point getting us winning will get the fans & increase the revenue

 

[goosie]

you worry to much lol we be sweet have faith in new signings. you cant say they will weakened the squad atleast give them a shot at the foot of the mountains. you just gotta look at the storm mate they had plenty of nobodys this year but look where they are now.