the reds need a team in local comp

[black and gold]

having spent the last week at the affilated states in melbourrne, many heated disscussions were thrown over the table whilst having a few quiet beers in the local bar with some fairly influentual west australian rugby league folk who hold various positions either with the local comp or the reds. one of these dissusssions was the idea of the reds feilding a side in the local comp just like the reds did in the 90s. with the demise of the 20s comp this year, put the best 20 year olds with the frindge reds players in the local comp. lets face it willagee dosent want to be playing 1st grade and this local reds side will strengthen our junior ranks into the next level.this could benifit the local comp by having another stronger side playing 1st grade and also benifit the reds in the future.at the momment the reds have only about 20 blokes to pick from due to injury and other things going on, even one of the players live in sydney. with a feeder side full of young blokes and with a few older heads has got to be the go for the future.

 

[Perth Red]

A good idea as long as they weren't stacked with the best WARL players otherwise it would be pointless them hammering everyone every week. If they kept it as an under 20's team then it might work.

 

[Smithtown]

Who says Willagee don't want to be in 1st grade?

Unless it is Willagee themselves then all people in WA League should be out to help Willagee in this difficult period they are in. Because if it's Willagee now, it will be another Club in 3 years time and so on.

There are 136 players in first grade in the WARL on any given weekend - more than enough choice for the Reds.

 

[black and gold]

Who says Willagee don't want to be in 1st grade?

Unless it is Willagee themselves then all people in WA League should be out to help Willagee in this difficult period they are in. Because if it's Willagee now, it will be another Club in 3 years time and so on.

There are 136 players in first grade in the WARL on any given weekend - more than enough choice for the Reds.

willagee are there to make up the numbers, how long are they going to hang around and get 80 to 100 points put on them every week. if they were fair dinkum about this comp the would spend some of that money which they make over the bar every night on a coach and some experienced 1st graders.there maybe plenty of 1st graders in the local comp as you say, but only about 25 of them are up to the sydney comp level.the reds have to recruit better this off season an sign some bigger fowards from n.z or the other states to compete better in the nsw cup. this is another reason why the reds should have a feeder side full of young blokes playing in the warl ,gaining experience playing 1st grade every week whilst training with the reds side gaining valuble experience there. buy the way it is common knowadge around the grounds that willagee would be happier as a club playing reserve grade or thirds. would you stick around everyweek to get flogged. better of being at work making money ah

 

[joondalup_giant]

The way the WARL do it atm is the best way, by spreading the talent around it evens out the comp and also raises the standard.

As for the younger guys whats wrong with them playing for there club, they'd be gettin the exact same development as they would playing for a "Junior Reds" side. They could train with the Reds on Mondays and Wednesdays and train with there club as per usual on Tuesday & Thursday.

 

[Smithtown]

Best take a breath there black & gold - or is that red & white?

The Reds already have 8 feeder sides in 1st Grade where young blokes are gaining experience playing firsts every week - not too sure how many of them have been invited to Reds training but could certainly hazard a guess.

It's funny where opinions turn to when things turn to shizen, but having an U20s feeder team is nowhere near the top of the tree of things to change if we want Reds results to turn. If that's the top change management idea from the heavyweights bar room discussions, they need to drink more.

 

[WA Power]

Rather than focusing on having a REDS team in the local comp. there are a lot more important issues that need to be addressed and in no particular order.
1 Coaching - The REDS need a clean out of the whole coaching staff ASAP, the current coach was told at the end of 2008 he would not be coaching in 2008 and was offering another role within the club. When they were unable to get a coach to move to Perth Dever was giving the job. So in fact he was second choice.

2 WARL - Has lost touch with the local comp and they now need to really put some time and effort into turning this around. It at times appears as if the Blind are leading the Blind while the WARL will say numbers are on the rise and the local comp is the best it has ever been in WA. There is a real disconnect between the REDS and the Local Clubs

 

[albert]

At least Willagee have the "balls" to put a team on the field each week in first grade(although they have forfeited reserve grade on the odd occasion to field a first grade side).This club has been like this for a number off years yet they still put a team in each year.I watched them play against Centrals a couple of weeks ago and was talking to a guy from Centrals he told me they had ONE player (a forward I think) playing for Willagee who was a Reds fringe player.To me that seems a bit unfair and the WARL should supply more players to Willagee that don't get a run in the Reds team that week to make Willagee stronger.

As for the Reds going for a berth in the NSW cup I really think they should wait what is the use of putting a team in that comp when we can not even get decent results in the Jim Beam cup.If they put a team in next year they would virtually playing against reserve grade players(players from feeder clubs in the NRL) and get flogged every week.:x

 

[Perth Red]

Yeh I agree re waiting another year beore moving up a level. The NSW cup is a step too far at the moment and would require us to import nearly a full team which kind of defeats the object. Only hope would be if we became a reserve side ofr a NRL team but again doesn't really help WA player development. Also the NSW cup requires double the budget and adds very little in terms of profile over the Bundy cup.

re the WARL clubs - Reds relationships, what is the main issues and what's the answers? Not being involved with a WARL side I am unaware of any issues. What does the WARL need to focus on to improve the league?

I still think more work needs to be done to get more jnrs into the game as ultimately the bigger jnr base the better talent we will have but that is a 5-10 year outcome.

 

[joondalup_giant]

I watched them play against Centrals a couple of weeks ago and was talking to a guy from Centrals he told me they had ONE player (a forward I think) playing for Willagee who was a Reds fringe player.

Willagee have been assigned 2 players Steve Bullock (the forward you saw) and Matt Doeg.

I think Centrals have the least players with Joel Lillyman being the only one - I could be wrong though.

Anyways I hope this thread is an indication of how this idea went down in the "boardroom"

 

[black and gold]

Best take a breath there black & gold - or is that red & white?

The Reds already have 8 feeder sides in 1st Grade where young blokes are gaining experience playing firsts every week - not too sure how many of them have been invited to Reds training but could certainly hazard a guess.

It's funny where opinions turn to when things turn to shizen, but having an U20s feeder team is nowhere near the top of the tree of things to change if we want Reds results to turn. If that's the top change management idea from the heavyweights bar room discussions, they need to drink more.

i think smithtown should bring some of his brilliant ideas to the table.the junior reds was a success in the mid 90s with many of their players playing for the state and a few moving onto other 1st grade nrl clubs.if the western reds didnt fold many of these guys would have played 1st grade for the western reds. surley with a junior reds team playing in the local comp,training with the senior guys gaining their experience using the same club plays, patterns and moves would be more benifitual to the local comp the reds and the junior players development

 

[Perth Red]

The argument is why not just let them play for their WARL teams and come itot he Reds 1st team squad as they progress or are needed. I guess if these kids are picked out as the best talent and given $'s. better training facilities and better coaching than is available in the WARL clubs there would be good purpose to it. I'm not against the idea but don't want to see this side tonking the WARL clubs every week. or creating bad feeling betwen the Reds and WARL clubs due to elitism.

As mentioned we have a fair bit of work to do with the Reds 1st team anyways at this point in ime!

 

[black and gold]

Rather than focusing on having a REDS team in the local comp. there are a lot more important issues that need to be addressed and in no particular order.
1 Coaching - The REDS need a clean out of the whole coaching staff ASAP, the current coach was told at the end of 2008 he would not be coaching in 2008 and was offering another role within the club. When they were unable to get a coach to move to Perth Dever was giving the job. So in fact he was second choice.

2 WARL - Has lost touch with the local comp and they now need to really put some time and effort into turning this around. It at times appears as if the Blind are leading the Blind while the WARL will say numbers are on the rise and the local comp is the best it has ever been in WA. There is a real disconnect between the REDS and the Local Clubs

mate- i dont think its entirley the coaching staffs fault that they are not performing well.i really think they did not recruit well in the offseason at all.i would like to know, who would you have coaching the reds and how much you would pay them, and are there coaches in the local comp that would be up to doing the job- cheers

 

[black and gold]

Best take a breath there black & gold - or is that red & white?

The Reds already have 8 feeder sides in 1st Grade where young blokes are gaining experience playing firsts every week - not too sure how many of them have been invited to Reds training but could certainly hazard a guess.

It's funny where opinions turn to when things turn to shizen, but having an U20s feeder team is nowhere near the top of the tree of things to change if we want Reds results to turn. If that's the top change management idea from the heavyweights bar room discussions, they need to drink more.

p.s i dont know where the red and white comment comes from- cheers

 

[joondalup_giant]

i think smithtown was referin 2 1 of ur post's in another thread

 

[Perth Red]

I know they looked at a coach from over east but couldn't agree terms. Will always be a problem unless a coach can be enticed over with the promise of a job with one of our sponsors (any real estate coaches over there?) as there isn't enough work or money to justify a full time coaching position.

I don't see anyone in the WARL better than Dever and that is a big worry!

On paper we recruited well with 2 players from the french Elite league, 2 players from the NSW cup NZ team,a SL player and our own lads having better experience from a full season at this level. not sure if the Bundy cup is just better this year or we have gone backwards.

One advantage all the other teams have that we don't is being able to stack their teams with NSW cup standard players and even the occasional returning NRL player.

 

[Swamp]

i think smithtown should bring some of his brilliant ideas to the table.the junior reds was a success in the mid 90s with many of their players playing for the state and a few moving onto other 1st grade nrl clubs.if the western reds didnt fold many of these guys would have played 1st grade for the western reds. surley with a junior reds team playing in the local comp,training with the senior guys gaining their experience using the same club plays, patterns and moves would be more benifitual to the local comp the reds and the junior players development

Ever heard of a young Reds player named Matt Geyer?

 

[Smithtown]

Matt Geyer was an imported Penrith Junior - as were other imported kids like Shannon Hegarty, Matt Petersen etc... For every Jared Millar there were 2 Tristan Brady-Smiths ahead of him.

No point comparing Junior Reds players in 96 to now. It was a different time with the Reds having to essentially field 3 grades, hence the production line needed. This time around there is only one team to field.

Anyway Black & Gold, you've got the connections - it's just weird to see a Junior Reds team (in the process shelving Wliagee) is the best anyone can come up with to improve things.

As always, some things just need tinkering rather than wholesale changing. Some examples -

Forget MES and settle on two venues for the Reds - Lark Hill & Joondalup Arena - and play games from there.

Build relationships with new corporates especially from those two areas.

Build a connect between the Reds & all WARL Clubs by attending local training throughout the off season - and put extra emphasis on building relations between the strongest juniors in these clubs - invite the strong kids to train with the Reds.

Show respect for the hard nosed basically Western Sydney competition we are in and recruit players who are accustomed to suburban dung heaps and have runs on the board, instead of recruiting from other areas. The Reds desparately need a hard nosed forward to lead the way - eg a Brad Capovilla and a crafty half eg Andrew Dallalana. These two players (or similar) would make much difference.

Look at some of the other coaches in the comp eg Peter Kelly (ex Canterbury/Penrith hardman), Steve Ghosn (ex Wests 1sts coach), Len Stacker (ex Penrith 1sts coach), Graham Rogers (ex Cronulla/Canberra lower grade coach) and there are many similar coaching themes with a predominantly forward orientated power game. Bring in someone of that ilk to work with Chris Dever.

There's a few suggestions - nothing radical - maybe or maybe not worth mentioning when next on the fizz.

 

[Perth Red]

Agree with most of that except Lark Hill. I'd use the Arena and Fremantles ground. Lark Hill is too far away from the city and the stand is too far away from the pitch.

Best crowds we have had have been at KJoondalup and Freo so lets play 3 games at each with one game at Sth Perth, Nth Beach and Rockingham. Playoffs at MES, we can but hope for next year!

 

[black and gold]

Matt Geyer was an imported Penrith Junior - as were other imported kids like Shannon Hegarty, Matt Petersen etc... For every Jared Millar there were 2 Tristan Brady-Smiths ahead of him.

No point comparing Junior Reds players in 96 to now. It was a different time with the Reds having to essentially field 3 grades, hence the production line needed. This time around there is only one team to field.

Anyway Black & Gold, you've got the connections - it's just weird to see a Junior Reds team (in the process shelving Wliagee) is the best anyone can come up with to improve things.

As always, some things just need tinkering rather than wholesale changing. Some examples -

Forget MES and settle on two venues for the Reds - Lark Hill & Joondalup Arena - and play games from there.

Build relationships with new corporates especially from those two areas.

Build a connect between the Reds & all WARL Clubs by attending local training throughout the off season - and put extra emphasis on building relations between the strongest juniors in these clubs - invite the strong kids to train with the Reds.

Show respect for the hard nosed basically Western Sydney competition we are in and recruit players who are accustomed to suburban dung heaps and have runs on the board, instead of recruiting from other areas. The Reds desparately need a hard nosed forward to lead the way - eg a Brad Capovilla and a crafty half eg Andrew Dallalana. These two players (or similar) would make much difference.

Look at some of the other coaches in the comp eg Peter Kelly (ex Canterbury/Penrith hardman), Steve Ghosn (ex Wests 1sts coach), Len Stacker (ex Penrith 1sts coach), Graham Rogers (ex Cronulla/Canberra lower grade coach) and there are many similar coaching themes with a predominantly forward orientated power game. Bring in someone of that ilk to work with Chris Dever.

There's a few suggestions - nothing radical - maybe or maybe not worth mentioning when next on the fizz.

all of those players mentioned above did not play any senior rugby league until they arrived in perth. the reds will lose supporters if they have to travel to rockingham and joondalup every bloody week [stupid idea] whats your budget for a coach, must be over 100k, also you say keep dever, that would be a kick in the guts for him why recruit from western sydney, any decent player over there would be on more money now than the reds could afford. i would be recruiting from auckland, wellington, and canterbury also group2, group6,7 and 16. have you seen any of these comps- probaly not. also i would be looking in victoria- did you see the victorian side- probaly not. you say no wholesale changes, well you could have fooled me. you should be on the board or even better, why dont you coach them