The Rumours Thread

[Dragon Blood]

DB
Thanks for your 2 posts and I'll try to answer some of the points you raise

As a coach I think Hook is little more than run of the mill and for sure I had hoped for more from him.

Our defence has been tragic, our attack incredibly limited with little variety except for the last 5 games this year where I could see some small glimmer of coordinated structure. No doubt some of this is the coach but no doubt some of it very much roster related as well.

IMO players wishing to get a start in the NRL can either catch a ball, pass a ball and tackle or they can't so how much of this can a coach teach a player or how much extra work can the player do himself?

A good example is how people talk about Nathan Cleary staying behind long after others have left the paddock just practising his various types of kicks. Are people trying to tell me that the coaching staff are there with him 100% of the time? He gets better because he constantly works at it.

I have posted a lot about Sloan on the proviso that the rumours re him and Hook are true. I am basically saying that despite Hook's known limitations other players in the 1st grade side have improved and cemented their spots in the top grade.

I am also saying that 3 promising junior players imporved their skills, took their chances and were rewarded accordingly. I am also saying that it is abundantly clear IMO that Sloan failed to do that and has ended up behind Ramsey and that is because Ramsey wanted it more.

Others in here are of the opinion that Sloan deserves the FB spot on the basis that he has more potential and that Hook has failed to tap into. Well this goes back to my statement re catching, passing and tackling and again IMO Ramsey does it better than Sloan at this point in time and Ramsey has continued to improve in these key areas while Sloan has not.

Hook can't make him catch the high ball, Hook can't make him tackle the attacking player or be desperate in trying to stop tries near the line so why then should Hook reward him for his failure in these areas when someone else has obviously improved and is willing to do what is required?

Re the various signings under Hook I had some hope that Mybe and Woods would be more valuable than they proved to be and I must say that Mc Cullough 3 year deal is a complete f**k up. Maguire and Burgess I could actually understand the reasoning. Woods IMO has got a lot of extra game time due to the suspensions of Sims and Maguire and the inability of Kerr and Hunt to step into the hole.

If Maguire & Sims had not spent so much time on the sideline then perhaps Woods might have played less and Hunt & Kerr more.

Sullivan is a conundrum where people fail to see how much game time he lost due to nagging injuries and of course they say he should be the hooker instead of Mc Cullough which is not a theory I subscribe to.

He needs to be playing either 7 or 6 so if Hunt is the 7 then he has to be 6 but Amone was given his shot for that and took it so it only leaves 7 and the arguement whether Hunt should be the 9 and obviously that is another subject for another day.

So in the end all this means I can see some reasons why some things happen and I can see some some terrible shit from coaches and players but I can't subscribe to the thinking that Sloan has been discriminated against, or left out in the cold or purposefully not coached because Hook either doesn't like him or doesn't rate him but interestingly last night on Fox it was reported that Sloan is on $350,000 at our club so if that is true does anybody think his performances are in line with that pay packet?

So I'm not defending Hook but I am questioning Sloan's dedication to the task and hopefully all the rumours are just that and then Sloan gets his head down and bum up and we see him improve and earn his spot wherever that may be in the 1st grade side.

Hey OT,

Thanks for your reply and I again agree with most of what you have written.

However, the bulk of your reply seems to be centered around Sloan which I don't believe I mentioned once in my 2 posts. By the way, I agree again with your comments about Sloan. It's clear that he didn't take his chances and still has a lot to learn to be an NRL fullback. At this point, I think Ramsey deserves his spot until Sloan can prove he is better. What I do have a problem with is why not throw him in at wing earlier instead of Moga?

I fully understand why Sharon was signed and received so much game time, even though I still think some of the younger forwards the club decided to retain should have been given more of a go in the NRL.

As you mentioned 3 younguns were given a fair go and improved, I thought Amone was absolute Shite for about 3/4 of the season but his game did improve towards the end with the benefit of constant NRL game time.

I vommed a bit when they announced the Mbye signing and straight away thought this will cause problems with the bench and Sullivan, who I think should have been rotated with Amone, learning from BHunt during the year. But as you mentioned early groin injuries hindered his start and basically had to take a back seat.

In my opinion, Sullivan is the best of the three Amigo's and I felt he was definitely the most undeservedly dudded by Hook in 2022.

So in summary my 2 posts were not entirely directed at any particular players from the juniors coming through, but more so at :
1. The Head office for accepting mediocrity for so long by hiring then extending 3 shit coaches in a row
2. Hook making baffling player purchases which I have mentioned in the first post
3. Shit coaching all round including ressies
4. Hook's copy and paste of team sheets week in week out as per Price and Mary
5. Hook's reluctance to experiment a bit and give the young kids a proper go. We were never winning the comp in 2022.
6. Hook's continuation of boring Dragons footy game plans.
and finally
7. I was questioning your defense of Hook in your recent posts considering from points 2 to 6.

Cheers,
DB

 

[possm]

Let’s hope he is in the know.

we need a change of head coach prior to 1 November.

I am not saying this because of the Sloan saga

I am tired of watching the side play one out footy, no offloads, no support play, snails pace service from dummy half.

The team is gassed out earlier than any other team in the comp.

We are ildisciplined and error prone.

How we managed to avoid the spoon this year is worthy of a separate thread.

The side needs several quality players to make us competitive.

I have long held the opinion that the Dragons squad is not fit enough. The need for changes in this area is mandatory else no matter who the coach is, we won't stand a chance of being competitive.

 

[possm]

Hey OT,

Thanks for your reply and I again agree with most of what you have written.

However, the bulk of your reply seems to be centered around Sloan which I don't believe I mentioned once in my 2 posts. By the way, I agree again with your comments about Sloan. It's clear that he didn't take his chances and still has a lot to learn to be an NRL fullback. At this point, I think Ramsey deserves his spot until Sloan can prove he is better. What I do have a problem with is why not throw him in at wing earlier instead of Moga?

I fully understand why Sharon was signed and received so much game time, even though I still think some of the younger forwards the club decided to retain should have been given more of a go in the NRL.

As you mentioned 3 younguns were given a fair go and improved, I thought Amone was absolute Shite for about 3/4 of the season but his game did improve towards the end with the benefit of constant NRL game time.

I vommed a bit when they announced the Mbye signing and straight away thought this will cause problems with the bench and Sullivan, who I think should have been rotated with Amone, learning from BHunt during the year. But as you mentioned early groin injuries hindered his start and basically had to take a back seat.

In my opinion, Sullivan is the best of the three Amigo's and I felt he was definitely the most undeservedly dudded by Hook in 2022.

So in summary my 2 posts were not entirely directed at any particular players from the juniors coming through, but more so at :
1. The Head office for accepting mediocrity for so long by hiring then extending 3 shit coaches in a row
2. Hook making baffling player purchases which I have mentioned in the first post
3. Shit coaching all round including ressies
4. Hook's copy and paste of team sheets week in week out as per Price and Mary
5. Hook's reluctance to experiment a bit and give the young kids a proper go. We were never winning the comp in 2022.
6. Hook's continuation of boring Dragons footy game plans.
and finally
7. I was questioning your defense of Hook in your recent posts considering from points 2 to 6.

Cheers,
DB

Behind a big-bodied, fit, and talented pack, a halves combination of Sullivan and Amone could greatly benefit from a season together in 2023. There is no real reason to hold onto Hunt.

So, I would like to see a deal made with the Titans, resulting in a Hunt for Fifita swap for season 2023.

The next step would be to sign Robson for 2024 on and two top-grade props for 2023 on in an effort to bolster our forward pack.

However, the most important change needs to be in the player fitness area. We need to bring someone in who can have our players conditioned to match opposition teams for the full 80 minutes each game.

We do need a new coach but it teams that some old boy politics are in play and so the timing is wrong. I just hope we don't end up with a situation similar to what we experienced during the May era.

 

[baggygreen man]

His disinterest and poor effort playing in the reserves

Did you watch him in Ressies. I saw him at fullback in one televised match before Griffin returned him for the last two games of the season on the wing. He was nothing short of outstanding, with three try assists, two of his own tries, safe under the kick and even his defense had improved. What he showed in that game was hard to teach ball skills and vision, and told me he had been working on his game.
Naturally after being dropped the kids confidence zeroed. I saw it in his body language. You and others misread it as disinterest. After all he is still 20.. a baby in nappies in sporting terms.

 

[baggygreen man]

For mine Sloan compares best to Nathan Blacklock both physically & ability.

Blacklock was fast, flashy and a good finisher. I dont recall he had any ball skills such as Sloan possesses.

 

[Old Timer]

Did you watch him in Ressies. I saw him at fullback in one televised match before Griffin returned him for the last two games of the season on the wing. He was nothing short of outstanding, with three try assists, two of his own tries, safe under the kick and even his defense had improved. What he showed in that game was hard to teach ball skills and vision, and told me he had been working on his game.
Naturally after being dropped the kids confidence zeroed. I saw it in his body language. You and others misread it as disinterest. After all he is still 20.. a baby in nappies in sporting terms.

621 points scored against us in 22 games in a comp that is well short of NRL level says plenty to me.

 

[baggygreen man]

621 points scored against us in 22 games in a comp that is well short of NRL level says plenty to me.

So Sloan alone allowed those 621 points to be scored against us did he?
I have said that the kids confidence would have been rock bottom after his dumping. Showed it with his body language. Yes instead of knuckling down to the task he showed his immaturity. I know talent alone wont return him to the Firsts fullback spot. A change in attitude plus a desire to improve his all round game, be fitter and bigger, will.

 

[The Villain]

Behind a big-bodied, fit, and talented pack, a halves combination of Sullivan and Amone could greatly benefit from a season together in 2023. There is no real reason to hold onto Hunt.

So, I would like to see a deal made with the Titans, resulting in a Hunt for Fifita swap for season 2023.

The next step would be to sign Robson for 2024 on and two top-grade props for 2023 on in an effort to bolster our forward pack.

However, the most important change needs to be in the player fitness area. We need to bring someone in who can have our players conditioned to match opposition teams for the full 80 minutes each game.

We do need a new coach but it teams that some old boy politics are in play and so the timing is wrong. I just hope we don't end up with a situation similar to what we experienced during the May era.

But where does Flanagan fit?

 

[Old Timer]

So Sloan alone allowed those 621 points to be scored against us did he?
I have said that the kids confidence would have been rock bottom after his dumping. Showed it with his body language. Yes instead of knuckling down to the task he showed his immaturity. I know talent alone wont return him to the Firsts fullback spot. A change in attitude plus a desire to improve his all round ability, get himself fitter and bigger, will.

When teams are leaking that many points it shows that
1. Scoring points is pretty easy
2. Defence is abysmal so tackling skills are obviously limited
3. Time and space in ressies allows for a false impression of skill sets when they come to 1st grade

 

[slippery5]

This is just a "Rumour" but Sloan has more natural & growing potential than Ramsay.
This "Rumour was liked by Anasta when he said he would have Sloan ahead, every day of the week on what he has seen with rare talent.

 

[OneEyedDragon]

This is just a "Rumour" but Sloan has more natural & growing potential than Ramsay.
This "Rumour was liked by Anasta when he said he would have Sloan ahead, every day of the week on what he has seen with rare talent.

Anasta liked the rumour? More likely that Anasta wants to be seen as being supportive of Sloan, hoping to sign on as Sloan's manager!

 

[baggygreen man]

This is just a "Rumour" but Sloan has more natural & growing potential than Ramsay.

This "Rumour was liked by Anasta when he said he would have Sloan ahead, every day of the week on what he has seen with rare talent.

No rumor. I dont mind admitting I am a Sloan fan just like Anasta...

 

[Trifili13]

This is just a "Rumour" but Sloan has more natural & growing potential than Ramsay.
This "Rumour was liked by Anasta when he said he would have Sloan ahead, every day of the week on what he has seen with rare talent.

While Sloan undoubtedly has talent, I wouldn't be trusting Anasta, he is probably just trying to get another client as a player manager.

I rhink the best people for talent identification, although they are not always correct, are the talent scouts, but the quiet ones, not the ones who are chummy with the press. People who have been in rhe game for years and can really spot talent. Anyone who has been in the game can spot someone like Sua'ali'i, the trick is to spot the 15 year old kid who is not the best in his team but with a bit coaching can turn into a very good player. Even Bennett for all he has done in the game, you wouldn't think he needs anyone to help him, yet didn't he have someone (name escapes me but I think he was also Jack Gibsons assistant) in the box with him on GF day in 2010.

I wouldn't trust any of them in the press or tv these days. When they call every second player as being a great player, then immortal if not enough for the Raper's, Gasnier's, Chang, Fulton, etc. They all just want to be in the good books with the players and clubs.

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

This is just a "Rumour" but Sloan has more natural & growing potential than Ramsay.
This "Rumour was liked by Anasta when he said he would have Sloan ahead, every day of the week on what he has seen with rare talent.

I agree with Anasta, but all the talent in the world gets you nowhere if you don't apply attitude and hard work, which at this stage Ramsey is doing, even if Sloan leaves, i don;t think Ramsey is our long term fullback..

 

[baggygreen man]

Behind a big-bodied, fit, and talented pack, a halves combination of Sullivan and Amone could greatly benefit from a season together in 2023. There is no real reason to hold onto Hunt.

Plus a decent hooker. Please league gods let it happen.

 

[Dragon David]

If we are to keep Sloan and Sullivan, we need to rid the club of Hook. I have a feeling that neither of these two potentially great players have had much to do with Hook and both are being shunned and ignored by the out of favour coach.

There appears to be a very lack of inclusiveness by the coach of these young up and comers.

Sloan knows what his shortcomings are. He knows that he needs to work hard on his body building and strength and catching and defensive issues. I think that he is working on them. I think that he wants a coach that believes in him, same as Sullivan.

Why would they want to leave? They love the Dragons but if they are not getting guidance and encouragement then they would be feeling left out. They aren't the go out and drink guys, including the likes of Amone and the Feagai brothers who all 5 have been mates for years and waiting for the day that they will all be playing in the red and white in first grade together.

None of this will happen with Hook being in charge. Penrith realised Hook was not the coach to get them a premiership and even though in his last year at that club when they were in the top 4-5 and geared to play finals footy, they sacked him. That decision has certainly changed a lot for the Panthers as evidenced by where they currently are at in virtually all grades this year - successful.

I was hoping that Hook would be good for us but now I don't think that he has the ability and know how to coach the squad to reach the top 8 let alone the top 4 and is a poor man manager.

 

[Parko1310]

If we are to keep Sloan and Sullivan, we need to rid the club of Hook. I have a feeling that neither of these two potentially great players have had much to do with Hook and both are being shunned and ignored by the out of favour coach.

There appears to be a very lack of inclusiveness by the coach of these young up and comers.

Sloan knows what his shortcomings are. He knows that he needs to work hard on his body building and strength and catching and defensive issues. I think that he is working on them. I think that he wants a coach that believes in him, same as Sullivan.

Why would they want to leave? They love the Dragons but if they are not getting guidance and encouragement then they would be feeling left out. They aren't the go out and drink guys, including the likes of Amone and the Feagai brothers who all 5 have been mates for years and waiting for the day that they will all be playing in the red and white in first grade together.

None of this will happen with Hook being in charge. Penrith realised Hook was not the coach to get them a premiership and even though in his last year at that club when they were in the top 4-5 and geared to play finals footy, they sacked him. That decision has certainly changed a lot for the Panthers as evidenced by where they currently are at in virtually all grades this year - successful.

I was hoping that Hook would be good for us but now I don't think that he has the ability and know how to coach the squad to reach the top 8 let alone the top 4 and is a poor man manager.

You make some good points DD. Hook may not be the guy players are going to be having a tight bond with, which may harm his man management skills. I think he is an out and out coach. One thing I'll definitely give hook credit for, whilst at times he can make some frustrating decisions, is he knows exactly what he's doing. He seems very methodical in everything he does, and maybe at times too methodical. But I dare say the panthers are not where they are now without having spent time with hook as their coach.

I think we are going into the final year of hook's tenure because 2023 is very possibly going to be his worst season with us yet given there isn't much on the open market. In that sense I feel a little sorry for him considering he has undoubtedly gotten our salary cap back in shape with the "money ball" approach and 2024 is probably the first year we can realistically make use of that fixed cap situation. I just don't see him surviving to experience what he has, to his credit, created.

Hook warned in his first interview that this rebuilding process was going to take time. I think we as fans can be a little unrealistic at times as to what we should expect. By 2024, under hook's coaching, 4 or 5 of young guys will be on or approaching 50 NRL games, which is when they tend to feel comfortable and can really take off. A salary cap in shape means we can go for the likes of Robson, hopefully tapine, leniu and as reported david fifita (who i don't think would be hook's idea). The concern I have is that hook's recruitment strategy has been well thought out and planned, and with the club more than likely planning to move him on, I don't think they will listen to hook's vision for 2024 and beyond re recruitment. Leaving this board and recruitment team on their own without hook's guidance is a recipe for disaster. I just hope even if he won't be there in 2024 they take on his input because going for fifita just because we now have the money to will just put us back where we started.

In all honesty, even if hook isn't at our club after 2023, as long as we don't make stupid recruitment decisions without his input, I think we will be better off for having spent time with him as our coach.

 

[Inisai Toga]

While Sloan undoubtedly has talent, I wouldn't be trusting Anasta, he is probably just trying to get another client as a player manager.

I rhink the best people for talent identification, although they are not always correct, are the talent scouts, but the quiet ones, not the ones who are chummy with the press. People who have been in rhe game for years and can really spot talent. Anyone who has been in the game can spot someone like Sua'ali'i, the trick is to spot the 15 year old kid who is not the best in his team but with a bit coaching can turn into a very good player. Even Bennett for all he has done in the game, you wouldn't think he needs anyone to help him, yet didn't he have someone (name escapes me but I think he was also Jack Gibsons assistant) in the box with him on GF day in 2010.

I wouldn't trust any of them in the press or tv these days. When they call every second player as being a great player, then immortal if not enough for the Raper's, Gasnier's, Chang, Fulton, etc. They all just want to be in the good books with the players and clubs.

…..Ron Massey?

 

[Jeremy Dragon]

Not much of a rumour, but I read Fifita is on the outer at Titans.
Interestingly he has just changed managers to Illawarra based David Riolos Titan Management.

Early call does this help in getting Fifita

 

[possm]

But where does Flanagan fit?

It seems to me that the Club has no interest in appointing Chane Flannagan a head coach or Kyle Flannagan as a backup halfback. Maybe if they do get a swap deal (Hunt for Fifita) then they might consider Kyle as a backup half.