The Rumours Thread

[denis preston]

DB
Thanks for your 2 posts and I'll try to answer some of the points you raise

As a coach I think Hook is little more than run of the mill and for sure I had hoped for more from him.

Our defence has been tragic, our attack incredibly limited with little variety except for the last 5 games this year where I could see some small glimmer of coordinated structure. No doubt some of this is the coach but no doubt some of it very much roster related as well.

IMO players wishing to get a start in the NRL can either catch a ball, pass a ball and tackle or they can't so how much of this can a coach teach a player or how much extra work can the player do himself?

A good example is how people talk about Nathan Cleary staying behind long after others have left the paddock just practising his various types of kicks. Are people trying to tell me that the coaching staff are there with him 100% of the time? He gets better because he constantly works at it.

I have posted a lot about Sloan on the proviso that the rumours re him and Hook are true. I am basically saying that despite Hook's known limitations other players in the 1st grade side have improved and cemented their spots in the top grade.

I am also saying that 3 promising junior players imporved their skills, took their chances and were rewarded accordingly. I am also saying that it is abundantly clear IMO that Sloan failed to do that and has ended up behind Ramsey and that is because Ramsey wanted it more.

Others in here are of the opinion that Sloan deserves the FB spot on the basis that he has more potential and that Hook has failed to tap into. Well this goes back to my statement re catching, passing and tackling and again IMO Ramsey does it better than Sloan at this point in time and Ramsey has continued to improve in these key areas while Sloan has not.

Hook can't make him catch the high ball, Hook can't make him tackle the attacking player or be desperate in trying to stop tries near the line so why then should Hook reward him for his failure in these areas when someone else has obviously improved and is willing to do what is required?

Re the various signings under Hook I had some hope that Mybe and Woods would be more valuable than they proved to be and I must say that Mc Cullough 3 year deal is a complete f**k up. Maguire and Burgess I could actually understand the reasoning. Woods IMO has got a lot of extra game time due to the suspensions of Sims and Maguire and the inability of Kerr and Hunt to step into the hole.

If Maguire & Sims had not spent so much time on the sideline then perhaps Woods might have played less and Hunt & Kerr more.

Sullivan is a conundrum where people fail to see how much game time he lost due to nagging injuries and of course they say he should be the hooker instead of Mc Cullough which is not a theory I subscribe to.

He needs to be playing either 7 or 6 so if Hunt is the 7 then he has to be 6 but Amone was given his shot for that and took it so it only leaves 7 and the arguement whether Hunt should be the 9 and obviously that is another subject for another day.

So in the end all this means I can see some reasons why some things happen and I can see some some terrible shit from coaches and players but I can't subscribe to the thinking that Sloan has been discriminated against, or left out in the cold or purposefully not coached because Hook either doesn't like him or doesn't rate him but interestingly last night on Fox it was reported that Sloan is on $350,000 at our club so if that is true does anybody think his performances are in line with that pay packet?

So I'm not defending Hook but I am questioning Sloan's dedication to the task and hopefully all the rumours are just that and then Sloan gets his head down and bum up and we see him improve and earn his spot wherever that may be in the 1st grade side.

Good response OT. I want Hook gone but like the club itself you can't blame everything on him ! I'm still getting over that embarrassing effort by Sloan in putting his leg out to trap a bomb instead of catching it ! I am hopeful ( as i said before ) that the first job Woolfe & Carr do is get the 6-8 young players together and explain the process for them to get regular NRL game time and the help available to them to do so.

 

[slippery5]

So IYO Hook is to blame for Burgess running into personal problems requiring him to go to rehab and also responsible for Sims & Moose being suspended which allowed. woods to be selected?
Mc Cullough definitely on Hooks head but also recruitments for not having better options.

OT, you are funny but where did I mention anything about the unfortunate circumstances of Burgess, Sims, Moose??
Hooks attention to see past a player who is now at Park level at best, in preference to promoting youth in Jaiyden Hunt / Coric, or are you happy with Woods selection ahead of someone like Faamausili who runs a thousand times harder & faster than Woods.
So my beef as a Dragons supporter seems like ground hog day all over again with the past continual selections of Latimore/ Norman McCullough & now Woods.
We are/have become a place for dead (Aaron) Wood type players.

 

[denis preston]

OT, you are funny but where did I mention anything about the unfortunate circumstances of Burgess, Sims, Moose??
Hooks attention to see past a player who is now at Park level at best, in preference to promoting youth in Jaiyden Hunt / Coric, or are you happy with Woods selection ahead of someone like Faamausili who runs a thousand times harder & faster than Woods.
So my beef as a Dragons supporter seems like ground hog day all over again with the past continual selections of Latimore/ Norman McCullough & now Woods.
We are/have become a place for dead (Aaron) Wood type players.

Slip, I only saw about 6 or 7 Ressie games last year but Hunt , faamausili ,Coric & others efforts were not good at all, particularly in defence. Coric was even sent back to Flegg later in the season. That was one of the problems last season , whilst Hook was criticized for the squads he picked ( deservedly mind you ) Nobody apart from Bud showed they deserved promotion.

 

[Old Timer]

OT, you are funny but where did I mention anything about the unfortunate circumstances of Burgess, Sims, Moose??
Hooks attention to see past a player who is now at Park level at best, in preference to promoting youth in Jaiyden Hunt / Coric, or are you happy with Woods selection ahead of someone like Faamausili who runs a thousand times harder & faster than Woods.
So my beef as a Dragons supporter seems like ground hog day all over again with the past continual selections of Latimore/ Norman McCullough & now Woods.
We are/have become a place for dead (Aaron) Wood type players.

The point I make about Burgess, Simms, Moose and you can probably throw in Fuimaono as well is that if theyvwerent suspended or in rehab most likely Woods would not have played so therefore the question becomes Woods or who rather than Woods and ?

If that is the case then who in the who category has shown more than Woods and is more deserving as all of them have been roundly criticised and deemed to have failed with Coric the exception as he didn’t get a gong.

Faama had a shot or 2 as did Kerr and despite being here for some time they remain nothing more than cover as is Woods but Hook was forced to pick a cover more as a permanent due to dumb ass players doing stupid shit and getting suspended for long periods.

If Sims and Moose had of played all games then including Hunt, Faama or Kerr in a team would have been far easier IMO but still fair to say little point of difference in outcome regardless of who you picked out of that lot.

 

[Unsainty79]

And Riccio also saying that players want to know who will be coaching the Dragon's in 2024. That's like saying I am not going to the Rooster's or Penrith or whatever club you want to name until you tell me who will be the coach in 2 years time. No one can tell you that with certainty

I agree that you don't sign for the coach and that there are no crystal balls; however, it's probably that there is no plan. We're backing Hook, but only for one season. Rumours of coaches for 2024 are strong.

 

[Slippery Morris]

On NRL360 I think Kenty who obviously is a Hook fan said that if Sloan was the better option then why wouldn't he pick him. He would pick the best available because he wants to win.. Something to that effect. Well if that was true, then him picking Macca ahead of Mbye or Sulli at hooker because he thinks we have a better chance of winning is a big concern. Or as people stated before Woods picked ahead of others then that is pretty scary and he obviously has high expectations on some players and less on others.

Was Dean Young coaching the juniors when Sloan/Sulli/Amone were making their mark in the junior grades? Did he have any involvement in their development? That may be a good thing if the kids liked him as a coach back then. This Sloan / Sulli issue may either force Hook to go quicker than we think especially if they will not grant Sloan a release. It shows the everyone at the club has a heap of faith in the kid except for the coach. Ramsey can take Rava's spot not Feagai. Rava is a marked man and will be suspended if he plays like Olam and hits hard. MRC have done a good job targeting the guy and making him change his power game.

Also this players wanting to know who will be coach in 2024. That is ludicrous. Anything can happen by next year. It shows that next season is going to be a dud season as it will be an offseason of Hook which we have now seen 2 season of with no change to Mary, then potential an interim coach potentially coming part way through. Ala Tigers 2022. Does anyone ever see a team winning a comp or having a successful year going through that scenario? What a joke. Guess what Kenty? Saints were tipped to come last this season apparently and will be tipped again to come last so how is that due to good coaching by his buddy?

I really envy the Sharks and Parra as they are ready to sack a coach even if they make a finals series. Saints on the other offer extensions when the coach fails to make a semi. I am talking about the previous Sharks coach not Fitzy as he was sacked when they were still making the 8.

 

[Maddragon99]

In reference to Tyrell Sloan ... I too like the young Fella but here's a few facts to consider :
6'1" + 84kgs + silky speed ; much been said of his light frame
Graeme Langlands - 6'+78kgs + capable speed (but played with grit , tenacity , often selected out of position)
Michael Potter - 5'9"+ 82kgs + adequate speed (played with heart , occasional 5/8)
Ben Hornby - 6'+ 86kgs + adequate speed (played tenaciously , shifted to half)
Brian Johnson - no physical characteristics available but had lightning speed , was often maligned for poor defence & inability to catch bombs BUT turned it all around & became one of the best of his time !
Were the Coaches of these respective past Players responsible for the skills / attitude on display or did the Players themselves respond to criticisms / shortcomings & develop their game ?

For mine Sloan compares best to Nathan Blacklock both physically & ability.

With Ramsey locked in as fullback Sloan’s best chance to play regular first grade is on a wing with a roving commission.

 

[Old Timer]

On NRL360 I think Kenty who obviously is a Hook fan said that if Sloan was the better option then why wouldn't he pick him. He would pick the best available because he wants to win.. Something to that effect. Well if that was true, then him picking Macca ahead of Mbye or Sulli at hooker because he thinks we have a better chance of winning is a big concern. Or as people stated before Woods picked ahead of others then that is pretty scary and he obviously has high expectations on some players and less on others.

Was Dean Young coaching the juniors when Sloan/Sulli/Amone were making their mark in the junior grades? Did he have any involvement in their development? That may be a good thing if the kids liked him as a coach back then. This Sloan / Sulli issue may either force Hook to go quicker than we think especially if they will not grant Sloan a release. It shows the everyone at the club has a heap of faith in the kid except for the coach. Ramsey can take Rava's spot not Feagai. Rava is a marked man and will be suspended if he plays like Olam and hits hard. MRC have done a good job targeting the guy and making him change his power game.

Also this players wanting to know who will be coach in 2024. That is ludicrous. Anything can happen by next year. It shows that next season is going to be a dud season as it will be an offseason of Hook which we have now seen 2 season of with no change to Mary, then potential an interim coach potentially coming part way through. Ala Tigers 2022. Does anyone ever see a team winning a comp or having a successful year going through that scenario? What a joke. Guess what Kenty? Saints were tipped to come last this season apparently and will be tipped again to come last so how is that due to good coaching by his buddy?

I really envy the Sharks and Parra as they are ready to sack a coach even if they make a finals series. Saints on the other offer extensions when the coach fails to make a semi. I am talking about the previous Sharks coach not Fitzy as he was sacked when they were still making the 8.

I find it laughable how almost everyone is expendable just so Sloan can play FB.

We have had the Ramsey to wing Faegai gone theory, we have had Ramsey to centre and Suli to back row theory, you have joined the throng that Rava can go and Ramsey to wing theory.

FMD how about we just make it easy and have the Sloan man up and do the work and earn your spot because you are better than the others theory.

Of all the theories the sack Rava one is the most illogical of all.

Yet again we have arrived at the point of gifting someone something despite the repeated failures of such behaviour.

 

[possm]

On NRL360 I think Kenty who obviously is a Hook fan said that if Sloan was the better option then why wouldn't he pick him. He would pick the best available because he wants to win.. Something to that effect. Well if that was true, then him picking Macca ahead of Mbye or Sulli at hooker because he thinks we have a better chance of winning is a big concern. Or as people stated before Woods picked ahead of others then that is pretty scary and he obviously has high expectations on some players and less on others.

Was Dean Young coaching the juniors when Sloan/Sulli/Amone were making their mark in the junior grades? Did he have any involvement in their development? That may be a good thing if the kids liked him as a coach back then. This Sloan / Sulli issue may either force Hook to go quicker than we think especially if they will not grant Sloan a release. It shows the everyone at the club has a heap of faith in the kid except for the coach. Ramsey can take Rava's spot not Feagai. Rava is a marked man and will be suspended if he plays like Olam and hits hard. MRC have done a good job targeting the guy and making him change his power game.

Also this players wanting to know who will be coach in 2024. That is ludicrous. Anything can happen by next year. It shows that next season is going to be a dud season as it will be an offseason of Hook which we have now seen 2 season of with no change to Mary, then potential an interim coach potentially coming part way through. Ala Tigers 2022. Does anyone ever see a team winning a comp or having a successful year going through that scenario? What a joke. Guess what Kenty? Saints were tipped to come last this season apparently and will be tipped again to come last so how is that due to good coaching by his buddy?

I really envy the Sharks and Parra as they are ready to sack a coach even if they make a finals series. Saints on the other offer extensions when the coach fails to make a semi. I am talking about the previous Sharks coach not Fitzy as he was sacked when they were still making the 8.

And yet, if Hunt thought highly of Dean Young as potential coach in 2024, why would he insist on Griffin being his coach for the next 3 years (2023 + 2-year extension)?

And if Sloan's development and other young gun's benefited greatly from Young as coach in the juniors, why would Sloan be wanting a release?

Like me, there may be many players who are not looking forward to a coaching era of Dean Young. The Price/Mary era has such a sour taste in many who love the Saints.

 

[SGMax]

I recall at the beginning of the year, Griffin nominated that the FB position would be between Sloan and Ramsey.
After they each had a shot in the trials, Hook selected Sloan to start the season.
You didn't see Ramsey sook and give up on trying. He didn't ask for a release.

It wasn't just that Sloan had a poor game, he was deficient in his own defence as well as organising the team's defence.
When he eventually got some game time again, he had another shocker with poor judgement and unforced errors costing his team the game.

Sloan has done nothing to prove he is a better FB than Ramsey.
His disinterest and poor effort playing in the reserves didn't put him in the frame for a recall even when Ramsey was injured.

 

[Dragsters]

I recall at the beginning of the year, Griffin nominated that the FB position would be between Sloan and Ramsey.
After they each had a shot in the trials, Hook selected Sloan to start the season.
You didn't see Ramsey sook and give up on trying. He didn't ask for a release.

It wasn't just that Sloan had a poor game, he was deficient in his own defence as well as organising the team's defence.
When he eventually got some game time again, he had another shocker with poor judgement and unforced errors costing his team the game.

Sloan has done nothing to prove he is a better FB than Ramsey.
His disinterest and poor effort playing in the reserves didn't put him in the frame for a recall even when Ramsey was injured.

If Sloan wants to supplant Ramsey at fullback then he needs to take a leaf out of Ramsay's book and attack the game with the intent and vigour that Ramsay showed, even early on when he was picked on the wing, Ramsay's effort was excellent...

 

[possm]

If Sloan wants to supplant Ramsey at fullback then he needs to take a leaf out of Ramsay's book and attack the game with the intent and vigour that Ramsay showed, even early on when he was picked on the wing, Ramsay's effort was excellent...

Unfortunately, for me Sloan is Dufty mark II.

 

[Mojo]

And yet, if Hunt thought highly of Dean Young as potential coach in 2024, why would he insist on Griffin being his coach for the next 3 years (2023 + 2-year extension)?

And if Sloan's development and other young gun's benefited greatly from Young as coach in the juniors, why would Sloan be wanting a release?

Like me, there may be many players who are not looking forward to a coaching era of Dean Young. The Price/Mary era has such a sour taste in many who love the Saints.

Isn‘t it just as likely that none of them are even contemplating that Dean Young will become the Head Coach?

 

[Mojo]

I know this is a rumours thread but, at this stage, neither Sloane nor Sullivan has requested a release. If we’re going to discuss rumours we need to be careful not to start treating them as facts.

 

[slippery5]

Was James Graham hinting on 360 last night of a rumour of a different coach when he suggested that Sloan comes back Nov 1 & "who ever the coach is" make it impossible for them not to pick him???

 

[redandwhite4evr]

Fear not fellow Dragons tragics and posters. I have it on good authority that the visionary Dragons recruitment team are in deep discussions with a player who was the 2021 runner up to the most improved bench player at a Queensland Cup side. This is not a depth signing.

 

[Saints Forever]

Was James Graham hinting on 360 last night of a rumour of a different coach when he suggested that Sloan comes back Nov 1 & "who ever the coach is" make it impossible for them not to pick him???

Let’s hope he is in the know.

we need a change of head coach prior to 1 November.

I am not saying this because of the Sloan saga

I am tired of watching the side play one out footy, no offloads, no support play, snails pace service from dummy half.

The team is gassed out earlier than any other team in the comp.

We are ildisciplined and error prone.

How we managed to avoid the spoon this year is worthy of a separate thread.

The side needs several quality players to make us competitive.

 

[since77]

So IYO Hook is to blame for Burgess running into personal problems requiring him to go to rehab and also responsible for Sims & Moose being suspended which allowed. woods to be selected?
Mc Cullough definitely on Hooks head but also recruitments for not having better options.

He’s responsible for recruiting two of them, and both of them were duds.

 

[Maddragon99]

And yet, if Hunt thought highly of Dean Young as potential coach in 2024, why would he insist on Griffin being his coach for the next 3 years (2023 + 2-year extension)?

And if Sloan's development and other young gun's benefited greatly from Young as coach in the juniors, why would Sloan be wanting a release?

Like me, there may be many players who are not looking forward to a coaching era of Dean Young. The Price/Mary era has such a sour taste in many who love the Saints.

Let’s not forget the talk of Sloan wanting a release is nothing but media speculation at this point. In all the articles I’ve read there’s never been any quotes from Sloan or the club.

Same can be said of Hunt wanting a Griffin clause, Hunt has been around long enough to know that a coaches tenure is directly rated to performance with a top 8 finish generally accepted as a pass mark.

Dropping out of finals contention well before the end of the season the past 2yrs would obviously be considered failure.

 

[Old Timer]

He’s responsible for recruiting two of them, and both of them were duds.

With the roster we had they should have played reserve grade and only NRL due to injuries but multiple long suspensions came into play.
The question of if not them then who should have been recruited still remains relevant when having this discussion.
I’m more than happy to be advised who we didn’t get that was within our grasp.