The shoulder charge debate thread

[betcats]

Well the shoulder charge was always in trouble when literally every club doctor advised that it be banned

This.

For better or worse medical and legal advise will trump what the fans want, its the world we live in these days.

 

[betcats]

That's because the penalties weren't tough enough. That's the one part I can't wrap my head around is how the NRL didn't see this and act on it long before Dean Young was ever wiped out by Inglis.

The rules could have been very clearly stated: Contact the head in the act of a shoulder charge and you are gone for an exorbitant amount of time, far longer than it is probably worth even attempting the charge at all.

But shoulder charges that are perfectly legal by the old rules(no high contact) can still damge the brain and even kill as we have just seen.

 

[NrlCoach]

NFL got sued because they let player hit each in the head with helmets. Rugby league has never let player hit each other in the head. i love how the media keeps telling us how rugby league is going to get sued. If a player can sue because of SC then every player that got hit in the head in a tackle would be able to sue the NRL :crazy: nothing but a scare campaign

 

[I Bleed Maroon]

But shoulder charges that are perfectly legal by the old rules(no high contact) can still damge the brain and even kill as we have just seen.

If that's the truth than such circumstances could happen in many other scenarios in League. Presumably the damage to James brain was done via heavy impact with the ground or a severe concussion. Those results are far from exclusive to the shoulder charge.

 

[adamkungl]

Iirc the ARLC said that about 20 percent of all shoulder charges made contact with the head. That's quite high when you think about it. Out of every 5 shoulder charges 1 is to the head.

This is literally a flat out lie from the NRL. They claimed there were 71 shoulder charges in the 2012 season. Bull f**king shit.

Percentage is a lot lower when you count it properly.

 

[AJB1102]

If we treated concussions the same way as the ufc Kyle turner would of been forced to retire last season.

Good. Its obviously while he may posses the skill and determination to play top flight RL he just isn't cut out for it. Which is fine, we're not soccer - not everyone can play.

But shoulder charges that are perfectly legal by the old rules(no high contact) can still damge the brain and even kill as we have just seen.

Then I'm sure many other big tackles can. I'm sure what Matai did to himself the other weekend can't be good either. A head clash in a tackle isn't creating more Einsteins.

 

[betcats]

If that's the truth than such circumstances could happen in many other scenarios in League. Presumably the damage to James brain was done via heavy impact with the ground or a severe concussion. Those results are far from exclusive to the shoulder charge.

No that's wrong, it is whiplash they think did the damage. Shoulder charges are the biggest impacts in the game and they have a higher chance of going wrong.

Of course there can always be some kind of accident or poor technique lead to death or serious injury in RL but the point is a shoulder charge doesn't need something to go wrong to be fatal, the force and impact involved in a well executed shoulder charge can cause concussion or death.

 

[Joker's Wild]

https://video-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xtf1/v/t42.1790-2/11831014_989913187726439_482265894_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjMyMCwicmxhIjo1MTJ9&rl=320&vabr=178&oh=5da31fae375f0627e37cae4f88e08d8b&oe=55C3070F

If Captain Cam thinks they need to stay banned then thats good enough for me

 

[I Bleed Maroon]

No that's wrong, it is whiplash they think did the damage. Shoulder charges are the biggest impacts in the game and they have a higher chance of going wrong.

Of course there can always be some kind of accident or poor technique lead to death or serious injury in RL but the point is a shoulder charge doesn't need something to go wrong to be fatal, the force and impact involved in a well executed shoulder charge can cause concussion or death.

Whiplash? That still opens up a can of worms in a variety of other areas. A good sling tackle could probably whiplash someone, ala Tallis on Hodgson.

 

[betcats]

Good. Its obviously while he may posses the skill and determination to play top flight RL he just isn't cut out for it. Which is fine, we're not soccer - not everyone can play.

Point is while it is a brutal sport they treat concussions more seriously then we do.

Then I'm sure many other big tackles can. I'm sure what Matai did to himself the other weekend can't be good either. A head clash in a tackle isn't creating more Einsteins.

As has been stated medical experts advised the nrl shoulder charges are significantly more damaging on the brain then other legal tackles in the game. .

Players don't go out there trying to headclash with someone though, its an accident.

 

[dogslife]

We really shouldn't be using rugby union as a yardstick for where we think our game should be heading.

Because it's a shit sport.

 

[betcats]

Whiplash? That still opens up a can of worms in a variety of other areas. A good sling tackle could probably whiplash someone, ala Tallis on Hodgson.

It does seem that way, im obviously not a doctor so I cant really explain it but it must be something to do with the impact and force of it.

 

[AJB1102]

Point is while it is a brutal sport they treat concussions more seriously then we do.

As has been stated medical experts advised the nrl shoulder charges are significantly more damaging on the brain then other legal tackles in the game. .

Players don't go out there trying to headclash with someone though, its an accident.

I'd happy if we did treat concussions more seriously. Souths should get a kick up the bum for even naming the kid this week.

What happens though when the medical experts say something else is dangerous? I don't need to be a doctor to know RL is dangerous.

Fair point on the head clash not being an "on purpose" thing, but it happens a lot - more than shoulder charges I reckon.

We really shouldn't be using rugby union as a yardstick for where we think our game should be heading.

Because it's a shit sport.

Not to mention its soaring popularity in this country :lol:. I knew about the Aussie women's netball coming up before I knew it was time to get walloped in the Bledislow again.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Look I would be a lot more pliable to the opposing view on the SC if:

1. the rules were actually policed properly, not just at the ref level but at the MRC level as well.

2. You actually account for the one shoulder charge that has gone unnoticed, the one coming from the player who is hitting the ball up. If you are allowed to do it with the ball in hand, why can't defenders do it?

At least try and look like a professional organization that properly considers issues properly before they act on them, instead of having one knee jerk reaction after another to whatever the media decide to whinge about next.

A full investigation and analysis of shoulder charges was commissioned, the opinions of all 16 club doctors canvassed before they arrived at a reasoned decision. And it was one done before someone was seriously hurt, not after - which is a nice change from waiting until the horse has bolted as league usually does.

I know that doesn't fit your campaign, though. And your mate adamkungl seems to have done his own investigative work, which is quite proactive of him.

 

[NrlCoach]

....

 

[AJB1102]

lol at Whiplash doctor excuse. this tackle below had Whiplash why isnt this tackle banned :crazy:

[youtube]hXty8i-pwFA[/youtube]

[/QUOTE]

I'm concerned how they'll remove that from the game.

Whiplash, the head making contact with the ground. There would be no medical upside to be belt like that, so no doc is going to recommend it.

 

[Johnnie Red]

I can see why shoulder charges have been banned but man I am going to miss them.
Such an exciting aspect of the game and we will never see them again...RIP shoulder charge

 

[Mogsheen Jadwat]

does it look cool and excite fans? yes.
is it being banned so the NRL is not sued in <10 years time for the onset of CTE/Dementia/other neurologically debilitating conditions? yes

end conversation.

(ps. i think it should be allowed but in the event someone gets it in the head, something incredibly harsh should be the penalty, like 8 weeks bare minimum, make them think twice about it)

 

[betcats]

I'd happy if we did treat concussions more seriously. Souths should get a kick up the bum for even naming the kid this week.

What happens though when the medical experts say something else is dangerous? I don't need to be a doctor to know RL is dangerous.

Fair point on the head clash not being an "on purpose" thing, but it happens a lot - more than shoulder charges I reckon.



Not to mention its soaring popularity in this country :lol:. I knew about the Aussie women's netball coming up before I knew it was time to get walloped in the Bledislow again.

That bold bit is a reasonable concern and one I have myself, to give a decent answer you'd need to be a lawyer and a doctor. I think it comes down to the nrl wanting to show they take the issue seriously in order to protect themselves in the event of a lawsuit. Banning the shoulder charge has not changed the game very much and by doing so they are seen to be taking the advice of doctors and protecting the players, combine that with the implementation of the concussion rules and whatever education they do with players and clubs on this and now you have a halfway decent defense in case a lawsuit ever does come about.

Don't look at this as the NRL trying to protect the players, look at it as the NRL protecting themselves.

 

[betcats]

I'm concerned how they'll remove that from the game.

Whiplash, the head making contact with the ground. There would be no medical upside to be belt like that, so no doc is going to recommend it.[/QUOTE]

Again I see what you are getting at but you cant remove tackling from the game and it is unlikely one player will get hit with enough tackles like that to be able to make it worthwhile legally. Also head and back slamming is banned to protect the players from hitting their head on the ground.