The Tim Shines post 95 myth statistics

[themanonthehill]

These are all statistics so the FWO, Leumeah mongs and Orange Grove public dropouts may have trouble comprehending. But these are facts in black and white, with regards the myth of Tim Sheens

Yr P W L D
96 22 13 8 1
97 18 5 11 2
98 24 9 15 0
99 24 4 19 1
00 26 7 19 0
01 11 2 8 1
PUNTED ..................
03 24 7 17 0
04 24 10 14 0
05 28 18 10 0
06 24 10 14 0
07 21 10 11 0

TOTALS
246 95 146 5

Points Available 492
Points Attained 195
Percentage - 39.63%

Games Played 246
Games Won 95
Percentage Won 38.61%

A little over 1 win in 3 in the previous decade and a bit

With us:
Games played 121
Games won 55
Percentage Won - 45.45%

Are these the stats of a supercoach ??????????????????????/

 

[smeghead]

Yes

 

[themanonthehill]

Only because he himself thinks he's a supercoach.
3 comps with a side my grandmother could have coached and one on the back of 16 outstanding weeks with us maketh not a supercoach

 

[smeghead]

I think he is a very good coach, if only in respect to the confidence he seems to instill in younger players in their ability and how he has been able to bring along such a relatively young group and bring a really solid core of a team to build around.

My biggest criticism at the moment centres around recruitment and salary cap management

 

[Gus22]

The only stat that matters is this:

Premierships (@WTs): 1

Seriously, this Sheens can't coach crap is getting over the top. Sure, some of his selections have had us scratching our heads at times, but ask any supporter of another club & they'd probably say the same about their coach.

Given that Sheens has delivered Premierships in the 80's, 90's, & 00's it is obvious he knows what he's doing. He's not infallible & he makes mistakes, but who doesn’t?

Around about April-May 2005, I can remember the knife draw being opened by some posters in here & on the official site, with Sheens in mind. Hopefully some of you bagging Sheens will be wiping the egg from your faces like those who went off too early in 05.

IFwe miss the finals this year & struggle again next year, then (& only then) could serious doubts be raised about Sheens being able to win another Premiership here.

 

[themanonthehill]

The point is Gus, how much time did 2005 buy Tim Sheens, realistically speaking, before we question his coaching and recruitment (he must have had a massive say in the signing of Harris, O'Hara, Lolesi, Galloway, Morris etc). Not to mention previous efforts with the likes of Graham and Sattler. No we see Fitz as captain, Farah and Marshall moved to accommodate Morris, an international centre not even made an offer etc etc etc.

To move on we have to look past 2005 which was 16 amazing weeks at the end of the season (does everyone forget how sh*t we were for the first 12 weeks). It can't buy him an indefinite time span at the club and he must be judged on his overall record with us which is less than fantastic

 

[Gus22]

You're right about '05 not entitling Sheens a job for life. So how much time did it buy him? Like I said , IMO a non appearance in this years Finals & a poor start next year should have us considering a new approach.

All this bagging of Sheens lately is a bit premature IMO. Lets just see what happens in the next 4 weeks. If we miss the Finals - absolutely, we need to start thinking about whether or not Sheens is on the right track. However playing Finals this year &/or a bright start next year would once again make extending Sheens' contract justifiable.

On another note salary cap management & recruitment may be an issue at the moment. It's hard to imagine how we are close to the cap given our roster. On the other hand we do seem to retain a lot of promising youngster's even if it means paying them what they would be worth in a year or two (rather than what their value is at the time of signing the contract).

 

[chunk]

These are all statistics so the FWO, Leumeah mongs and Orange Grove public dropouts may have trouble comprehending. But these are facts in black and white, with regards the myth of Tim Sheens

Yr P W L D
96 22 13 8 1
97 18 5 11 2
98 24 9 15 0
99 24 4 19 1
00 26 7 19 0
01 11 2 8 1
PUNTED ..................
03 24 7 17 0
04 24 10 14 0
05 28 18 10 0
06 24 10 14 0
07 21 10 11 0

TOTALS
246 95 146 5

Points Available 492
Points Attained 195
Percentage - 39.63%

Games Played 246
Games Won 95
Percentage Won 38.61%

A little over 1 win in 3 in the previous decade and a bit

With us:
Games played 121
Games won 55
Percentage Won - 45.45%

Are these the stats of a supercoach ??????????????????????/

Did he f*** your boyfriend or something.

 

[themanonthehill]

Even if we struggle to get in the 8 this year it is an ordinary effort in my opinion. This is a terribly ordinary comp and to think that at best we are going to finish 7th or 8th is an ordinary effort of which questions should (and I dare say) will be asked. There are a number of issues that are festering re rentention and recruitment, selection and the decision on where to play home games given the Telstra deal is about to end we are competing against teams who get a massive home ground advantage when they play at home. This gypsy issue re our home games is something else that needs serious addressing

 

[chunk]

You remind me of one of those malcontents on their soapbox who know one really cares what they are saying any more.

A bit of a nutter who people feel sorry for.

 

[Gus22]

Even if we struggle to get in the 8 this year it is an ordinary effort in my opinion. This is a terribly ordinary comp and to think that at best we are going to finish 7th or 8th is an ordinary effort of which questions should (and I dare say) will be asked. There are a number of issues that are festering re rentention and recruitment, selection and the decision on where to play home games given the Telstra deal is about to end we are competing against teams who get a massive home ground advantage when they play at home. This gypsy issue re our home games is something else that needs serious addressing

Again I agree with you, in part.
You just raised a number of issues all of which have an effect on the success of the football team. Not all of the issues however are Sheens' responsibility or even within his control.

1. Ordinary comp or not, a Finals appearance is a pass mark (particularly with the disruptive injuries to key players this year).

2. Selection: Sheens has total control & rightly so as he will live & die by how well his chosen players perform. So far they have been adequete (given that we are currently in the eight. This is not to say that I agree with his selections every time. Moodie in particular was mind boggling.

3. Retention/recruitment: Sheens definitly would have considerable input, but at the same time would be restricted by the salary cap.

4. Telstra: totally out of Sheens' control

We could easily punt Sheens & be left with the same issues & a novice/crap coach left to deal with them. For now we stay the course I reckon.

 

[themanonthehill]

We are vying with Easts, Souths (that's SOwfs FFS), a new Gold Coast Chargers and a Brisbane team missing half their side to scrape into the 8 and a garbage Cowboys side sits 4 points ahead of us whilst a side with George Gatis at hooker and Michael Witt and Grant Rovelli in the halves are virtually 2 wins ahead of us. Top 5 I would say is a success, anything worse is I think at best break even or at worse

Selection is his and there have been a billion puzzling decisions over the years.

Rentention and recruitment is down to him and Ronald. The salary cap is restrictive but there aren't many clubs who would spunk close to 500k a yr on morris and o'hara (700k if you include Galloway). He had an age to address the Prince thing, he didn't and the team (and we all) are suffering because of it

The Telstra deal has served its purpose and CANNOT be renewed. We are the only team to whore out home games between 4 venues. Could anyone imagine Man U or Milan or the Broncos or the Green Bay Packers or any decent club in world sport moving home games. It all comes down to winning football games and having proper home grounds is the way to win football games. Everything else looks after itself

 

[Gus22]

You may turn out to be right, then again you may not. I'm saying wait & see.
Last I checked we're still a chance of winning the comp THIS year. Are you saying we are no chance?

As you point out there are a lot of ordinary teams in front of us that will occupy spots in the Finals. If we get there & the team clicks into gear like they did against Cows & in the second half against the Panthers, then we're a real chance. Beyond that, we comprehensivly beat Melbourne once this year & were unlucky on another occasion. As well as Manly have played recently, they don't exactly put the fear of God into me.

I suggest you keep your powder dry on the Sheens thing for now because this thread & about a dozen others you figure in could come back & haunt you - ala Tigger's Wooden Spoon to Campbelltown classic.

If we are in a similar position in 12 months time you won't get an arugement from me. For now though, wait & see. It's not like there are 4 or 5 brilliant coaches looking for a gig at the moment anyway.

 

[themanonthehill]

I am not setting myself up here but there is no way we will win the comp.
Bellamy had never coached first grade when he got the Melb gig.
Ditto Stuart when he got the easts job
There are a lot of good young coaches who could be very good coaches
Dymock, Lam, Fairleigh are 3 names I'd consider and you would have to say Daley and Johns would have a desire somewhere in them to coach

 

[N.C.]

The point is Gus, how much time did 2005 buy Tim Sheens, realistically speaking, before we question his coaching and recruitment (he must have had a massive say in the signing of Harris, O'Hara, Lolesi, Galloway, Morris etc). Not to mention previous efforts with the likes of Graham and Sattler. No we see Fitz as captain, Farah and Marshall moved to accommodate Morris, an international centre not even made an offer etc etc etc.

To move on we have to look past 2005 which was 16 amazing weeks at the end of the season (does everyone forget how sh*t we were for the first 12 weeks). It can't buy him an indefinite time span at the club and he must be judged on his overall record with us which is less than fantastic

From memory it bought him 3 years... It also meant the retention of your messiah, who was quoted as saying that the re-signing of Sheens was a major contributing factor in his decision to sign for another 3 himself.

As for the first 12 weeks of '05: wins against both '04 grand finalists within the first 5 weeks, a few big first half leads that were unfortunately wittled away during the second half (one of your favourites against the Dragons at Telstra springs to mind - thanks to Fitzy under the high ball, who was incidentally dropped for Reick for several weeks after that game), and generally a perception that if our boys could tidy up their defence and put in for a full 80 minutes they could go the distance...

Which parts of 2005 are you remembering mate?

 

[Gus22]

I am not setting myself up here but there is no way we will win the comp.
Bellamy had never coached first grade when he got the Melb gig.
Ditto Stuart when he got the easts job
There are a lot of good young coaches who could be very good coaches
Dymock, Lam, Fairleigh are 3 names I'd consider and you would have to say Daley and Johns would have a desire somewhere in them to coach

If we do happen to win the comp then you most certainly have set yourself up.
Look for this & about a dozen other threads to re-appear. I really hope that happens, not to mock you but just because I want my team to be champs again.

Although you tend to go over the top with the mocking of those you don't like (Sheen's, McD1, McD2, Fitz, etc., etc., etc.) at least your opinions are your own & generate some lively debates.

BTW, Lam will be an excellent coach. He is ready for first grade & must be cursing Feddy's lucky dream run at the moment. Still I wouldn't swap Sheens for Lam (or anyone else you mentioned) just yet.

 

[themanonthehill]

There is as much chance of us winning this comp as there is of Penrith.
Lam looks very ready to become a first grade coach.
Has had some good people around him when he was an assistant and has the playing pedigree. Would have him as coach in a heartbeat.

Works in the media too and not too shab on camera according to those in the know

 

[Gus22]

There is as much chance of us winning this comp as there is of Penrith.

More fodder.

Works in the media too and not too shab on camera according to those in the know

Why don't we just get Ron Jeremy to coach?

 

[themanonthehill]

Hahahahaha. Video sessions at training might be `interesting'

"See boys this is how I want you to do it"

 

[aids]

so in all fairness, you want to drop sheens and co for lam and co?