The troll cave

[Curns13]

Again, you're entitled to think whatever you want mate.

I think you take pity on him because he sulks like he's being attacked every single time he can't form an argument to defend his statements.

If you hear someone cry "attack" 1000 times, eventually you'll believe it.

It's a really effective propaganda tactic that Joseph Goebells used to use. Google "illusion of truth". Fascinating stuff.

Not that I think Fletch does it deliberately, he's just a sook, but it definitely has that effect on some people here.

You can ownly take ownership over one persons actions, you’re own. It isn’t R20s actions that form my opinion of you, only yours. Just like your actions don’t inform my opinions of him. I have told you that I don’t take pity on him. The only people I take pity on are those that come here and have to sit through your and his arguments. At least 10 times yesterday, you wrote a negative post about R20. It may not be 10 everyday but it is often and almost daily.

Personally i’m over it. You don’t like him, you think he’s a liar, you think he’s a child. We all get it. We’ve read it literally hundreds of times. I’m just absolutely sick of reading it.

 

[Rabbitoad]

People who get on forums actually do know people on boards and assocuated with clubs or hear stuff through people they know. This happens.

Maybe.

More importantly, if I ask you where you heard something and you say (for example) I know one of the players Dads, I work with someone who knows him etc then I'll leave it at that.

There's no way to prove that either way and if you do actually know someone, people know how seriously to take it.

If your response is, ", Shut up! Stop attacking me! My super secret inside source is 100% legitimate so stop asking me questions " not only is it obvious that you're full of shit, but you're acting like a child and not acting in a way that deserves respect.

Again, plenty of people share rumours.

Funny how it's only one or two whingers that can't handle people not accepting their word as gospel

 

[Rabbitoad]

You can ownly take ownership over one persons actions, you’re own. It isn’t R20s actions that form my opinion of you, only yours. Just like your actions don’t inform my opinions of him. I have told you that I don’t take pity on him. The only people I take pity on are those that come here and have to sit through your and his arguments. At least 10 times yesterday, you wrote a negative post about R20. It may not be 10 everyday but it is often and almost daily.

Personally i’m over it. You don’t like him, you think he’s a liar, you think he’s a child. We all get it. We’ve read it literally hundreds of times. I’m just absolutely sick of reading it.

You're entitled to your opinion mate. I'm entitled to mine.

My opinion is that you hear so much of his sulking that you think there must be some truth to it.

I'm not going to try to force you to believe what I'm telling you.

All I can do is present you with the facts.

If you don't want to accept them, that's your business, not mine.

If you're sick of me calling out his blatant lies in a discussion forum, block me.

I'm not going to change over someone whinging.

No offense meant, I have no issues with you, but the only way to stop me calling out bullshit and/or tantrums is to get the person bullshitting and throwing tantrums to stop bullshitting and throwing tantrums.

 

[Curns13]

You're entitled to your opinion mate. I'm entitled to mine.

My opinion is that you hear so much of his sulking that you think there must be some truth to it.

I'm not going to try to force you to believe what I'm telling you.

All I can do is present you with the facts.

If you don't want to accept them, that's your business, not mine.

If you're sick of me calling out his blatant lies in a discussion forum, block me.

I'm not going to change over someone whinging.

No offense meant, I have no issues with you, but the only way to stop me calling out bullshit and/or tantrums is to get the person bullshitting and throwing tantrums to stop bullshitting and throwing tantrums.

For the third time, I am not and will not take pity on R20. How can you justify having an opinion about what I am or am not thinking? Do you think you know my thinking better than I do? Are you really that arrogant? I would also love to know what facts you have presented me with. From where i’m sitting I have only heard your opinions. You are a smart guy, facts cannot be disputed. You posted at least 10 negative posts about R20 yesterday. That is a fact. What facts have you presented?

 

[Rabbitoad]

For the third time, I am not and will not take pity on R20. How can you justify having an opinion about what I am or am not thinking? Do you think you know my thinking better than I do? Are you really that arrogant? I would also love to know what facts you have presented me with. From where i’m sitting I have only heard your opinions. You are a smart guy, facts cannot be disputed. You posted at least 10 negative posts about R20 yesterday. That is a fact. What facts have you presented?

You have given your opinion on me repeatedly mate.

Don't you feel it's slightly hypocritical to lose your shit when I do the same?

I posted negative things about him because we had a discussion where he acted like a spoiled child.

I've explained how he's the only one who cries about the questions I ask everyone who presents a rumour and I've explained why I think you're taking pity on him.

I also said it doesn't bother me if you don't want to accept that. You're welcome to think whatever you want mate.

Finally, I've explained why I'm not going to treat him differently to anyone else just because he has a sook when he doesn't get special treatment.

To me, it's very clear that you're taking pity on him.

If you disagree, that's totally fine. I don't need to force you to agree with me to be confident in my assessment and at the end of the day, what other people think of me is none of my business.

 

[Stan Dabovetherest]

Let's just get one thing straight....

I won't stand for being treated like it's a school playground mate I can tell you that!

Stop trying to let them influence you re my post as it was genuine mate.

They just rip apart any little thing I say no matter what it is.

I wasn't lying in what I said to you! They're twisting it.....

I feared opening up to you a bit would cause a lot of pressure and all from all angles... no matter what I say I can't win.....

Hi Rabbits20,

Firstly let me say, no one on here will influence me regarding your post or anything else. Like all of us, I am a grown man who makes my own decisions and should be held accountable for this.

Secondly, Rabbitoad was incorrect when he said this:

Your apology was insincere and Stan picked up on it.

Quit sulking whenever someone doesn't take your word as gospel

Although, I did pick up on it I do not believe your apology was insincere. I have taken it in good faith and have forgiven you.

Mate, I had two intentions when I posted this, one was to find a way that we could get along, you are a very dominant presence on this forum and hard to avoid. I have hated you in the past, and I am now at a place in my life where I do not want to hate anyone. I believe this has been achieved, I no longer hate you and have accepted your apology in good faith, and hope like you that we can move forward with a clean slate.

My other intention was to try to make this forum a better place. Like others, I am so sick of the many feuds on here, and regardless of whose fault they are, you are front and centre of most of them. I will be addressing Rabbitoad in my next post about this same issue. I would love for this forum to be somewhere all Rabbitoh's could come to talk about THE PRIDE OF THE LEAGUE without all this petty arguing and bickering.

Now, I am going to offer you some advice which you can choose to either take on board or not.

When I first read your response to my initial post about my brothers, there were a couple of things you said that a part of me wanted to come back at you on. These were:

I do respect gay people but it doesn't mean I'm a fan of them...

I don't know too much but she is now married to another lady and they are bringing up this girl and the poor girl is so confused....

​

I can understand how some on here have taken these as a disclaimer from you. I had an initial urge to do the same. However, I then chose to focus on the overall context of your apology and have instead decided to accept it as unreserved.

Saying these little things adds nothing to your post or the apology, it does however give people who have a pre-existing issue with you on here (and there are quite a few), something to come back at you with. If you left that out, no one would have a valid argument that your apology was not sincere or unreserved.

Also I would say, sometimes I think that you let historical issues get in the way when addressing new posts. For example, I think Sensesmaybenumbed ad a valid point in asking you what you meant about this girl being confused. You opened the door for this by posting that. He even defended you against Rabbitoad with this:

And he's backed away from it and admitted that he could well be wrong. Ease up and await the reply.

You still saw this as an attack on you, even though it was a legitimate question.

I guess my point is, if you are not going to be comfortable being asked follow up questions on something, it is probably best not to post the original content. You know there are people on here that dislike you for whatever reason, and some are looking for any excuse to come after you (not looking at you, Sensesmaybenumbed).

I just think that by including these lines you add nothing to the apology, but open the door to the Shitstorm that has ensued.

Once again Rabbits20, I fully accept your apology and am keen to move forward with a clean slate.

Cheers Stan.

 

[Rabbitoad]

Hi Rabbits20,

Firstly let me say, no one on here will influence me regarding your post or anything else. Like all of us, I am a grown man who makes my own decisions and should be held accountable for this.

Secondly, Rabbitoad was incorrect when he said this:



Although, I did pick up on it I do not believe your apology was insincere. I have taken it in good faith and have forgiven you.

Mate, I had two intentions when I posted this, one was to find a way that we could get along, you are a very dominant presence on this forum and hard to avoid. I have hated you in the past, and I am now at a place in my life where I do not want to hate anyone. I believe this has been achieved, I no longer hate you and have accepted your apology in good faith, and hope like you that we can move forward with a clean slate.

My other intention was to try to make this forum a better place. Like others, I am so sick of the many feuds on here, and regardless of whose fault they are, you are front and centre of most of them. I will be addressing Rabbitoad in my next post about this same issue. I would love for this forum to be somewhere all Rabbitoh's could come to talk about THE PRIDE OF THE LEAGUE without all this petty arguing and bickering.

Now, I am going to offer you some advice which you can choose to either take on board or not.

When I first read your response to my initial post about my brothers, there were a couple of things you said that a part of me wanted to come back at you on. These were:

​

I can understand how some on here have taken these as a disclaimer from you. I had an initial urge to do the same. However, I then chose to focus on the overall context of your apology and have instead decided to accept it as unreserved.

Saying these little things adds nothing to your post or the apology, it does however give people who have a pre-existing issue with you on here (and there are quite a few), something to come back at you with. If you left that out, no one would have a valid argument that your apology was not sincere or unreserved.

Also I would say, sometimes I think that you let historical issues get in the way when addressing new posts. For example, I think Sensesmaybenumbed ad a valid point in asking you what you meant about this girl being confused. You opened the door for this by posting that. He even defended you against Rabbitoad with this:



You still saw this as an attack on you, even though it was a legitimate question.

I guess my point is, if you are not going to be comfortable being asked follow up questions on something, it is probably best not to post the original content. You know there are people on here that dislike you for whatever reason, and some are looking for any excuse to come after you (not looking at you, Sensesmaybenumbed).

I just think that by including these lines you add nothing to the apology, but open the door to the Shitstorm that has ensued.

Once again Rabbits20, I fully accept your apology and am keen to move forward with a clean slate.

Cheers Stan.

He was ashamed when you called him on his shit.

That he couldn't apologise without taking that cheap shot shows how sincere he was.

You're a good bloke for wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

 

[Curns13]

You have given your opinion on me repeatedly mate.

Don't you feel it's slightly hypocritical to lose your shit when I do the same?

I posted negative things about him because we had a discussion where he acted like a spoiled child.

I've explained how he's the only one who cries about the questions I ask everyone who presents a rumour and I've explained why I think you're taking pity on him.

I also said it doesn't bother me if you don't want to accept that. You're welcome to think whatever you want mate.

Finally, I've explained why I'm not going to treat him differently to anyone else just because he has a sook when he doesn't get special treatment.

To me, it's very clear that you're taking pity on him.

If you disagree, that's totally fine. I don't need to force you to agree with me to be confident in my assessment and at the end of the day, what other people think of me is none of my business.

So once again you claim to know what I am thinking even though I have told you on 3 separate ocassions that I do not take pity on him? Wow. How on earth can you possibly make an accurate assessment of me? Wow. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and yet will continue to claim otherwise. You want to claim R20 is talking out his arse then you go and say these things. What a hypocrit you are.

 

[Rabbitoad]

So once again you claim to know what I am thinking even though I have told you on 3 separate ocassions that I do not take pity on him? Wow. How on earth can you possibly make an accurate assessment of me? Wow. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and yet will continue to claim otherwise. You want to claim R20 is talking out his arse then you go and say these things. What a hypocrit you are.

Okay mate, I've clearly struck a nerve.

Get back to me when you calm down and want to have a rational conversation.

I have no interest in getting into a slinging match with someone who started this conversation with admirable intentions.

 

[Curns13]

Okay mate, I've clearly struck a nerve.

Get back to me when you calm down and want to have a rational conversation like an adult.

I have no interest in getting into a slinging match with someone who started this conversation with admirable intentions.

The nerve you have struck is that you believe and continue to state that you know what I am thinking better than I do. You do this without any evidence. Have we ever discussed your disagreements with R20? No. Have we ever been involved in lengthy discussions at all? No. Have I conselled R20 regarding these disagreements? No. Have i repeated said that I do not feel the way you are saying I feel? Yes. So what evidence do you have to the contrary?

You do not know me at all. You do not know my relationship with R20 at all. And yet you think you can determine my state of mind and the way that I am thinking. How is this possible? You hold people accountable on this site for their rumours in a rumours thread, but believe you are above those same levels of accoutablity in making your own assessments. That is the nerve you have struck.

 

[Rabbitoad]

The nerve you have struck is that you believe and continue to state that you know what I am thinking better than I do. You do this without any evidence. Have we ever discussed your disagreements with R20? No. Have we ever been involved in lengthy discussions at all? No. Have I conselled R20 regarding these disagreements? No. Have i repeated said that I do not feel the way you are saying I feel? Yes. So what evidence do you have to the contrary?

You do not know me at all. You do not know my relationship with R20 at all. And yet you think you can determine my state of mind and the way that I am thinking. How is this possible? You hold people accountable on this site for their rumours in a rumours thread, but believe you are above those same levels of accoutablity in making your own assessments. That is the nerve you have struck.

I've never said I was beyond reproach. I just don't get my feelings hurt from people name calling when they can't argue what I've said with logic.

You gave your opinion. I gave mine.

I explained myself clearly and that I'm not going to try to force you to accept something you don't want to accept.

I said I have no issues if you disagree, but apparently you can't handle me disagreeing with you.

 

[Curns13]

I've never said I was beyond reproach. I just don't get my feelings hurt from people name calling when they can't argue what I've said with logic.

You gave your opinion. I gave mine.

I explained myself clearly and that I'm not going to try to force you to accept something you don't want to accept.

I said I have no issues if you disagree, but apparently you can't handle me disagreeing with you.

You do not get to disagree with what I am thinking. Only I can know that. So either you are full of shit or you believe I am a liar. Once again, i believe you are a hypocrit. That I my opinion, it is not fact.

You say you are explaining yourself clearly, what makes you believe I feel pity for R20? What is your arguement?

Are you so arrogant to believe that I can’t think your an arsehole without it being the fault of another person. Trust me, this last hour of discussion has nothing to do with R20 and yet my opinions of you have only been solidified.

 

[Rabbitoad]

You do not get to disagree with what I am thinking. Only I can know that. So either you are full of shit or you believe I am a liar. Once again, i believe you are a hypocrit. That I my opinion, it is not fact.

You say you are explaining yourself clearly, what makes you believe I feel pity for R20? What is your arguement?

Are you so arrogant to believe that I can’t think your an arsehole without it being the fault of another person. Trust me, this last hour of discussion has nothing to do with R20 and yet my opinions of you have only been solidified.

So you can think I'm an asshole, but I can't think you're being effected by pity.

Seems a bit hypocritical.

I can absolutely disagree with what you're thinking. It's called an opinion and I'm more than comfortable with what I've based it on.

 

[Stan Dabovetherest]

Hi Rabbitoad,

Firstly I would like to say that I appreciate a lot of what you post on here (Slurp, slurp I know). Initially I even took great joy in your constant calling out of Rabbits20.

I actually triggered this current shitstorm by calling Rabbits20 out. As well as this my main inspiration for joining this forum was to call Rabbits20 and Shadow out for their constant calling out of all our players as duds and then backflipping and claiming them as their own afterwards.

Source, I hear you ask, my original post:

You are a deadset imbossile(sic) who has no idea about Rugby League. I'm going to shout this slowly so hopefully you understand.

CRICHTON IS A DUD !!!!!

MUSGROVE IS A DUD !!!!!

FUIMAONO IS A DUD !!!!!

As I'm probably just a don't knowing, can't seeing newby on here I'm going to quote one of the most well respected posters on this forum.

This is a bloke whose footy knowledge is unsurpassed by all posters on LU (aside from the misguided young lad who he's grooming).

He is a dinky di, truth telling, all knowing champ, and this is what he had to say about these three on March 24, 2017 (less than 3 months ago).

It is obvious that Rabbits20 is a very divisive poster on this forum, clearly evidenced by the many feuds he is involved in. You are correct that he finds it extremely difficult to admit when he is wrong, even though he often calls out others for the same thing.

I guess my point is that even when he has come out and conceded he was wrong in response to my opening post on this issue, you still feel the need to question him on this. As stated in my previous post, I am well aware that he did not need to add those small disclaimers to his apology. It added nothing to his apology and opened the door for criticism. We are all at different stages in our own personal development, and I know when I was younger I found it much harder to admit when I was wrong, especially without adding a disclaimer. This is why I am now able to take his apology in good faith.

Last year, when this content was originally posted, when confronted Rabbits20 avoided questions about it and posted things like "I'm just here to talk about footy". As I stated previously I thought this was a cowardly response at the time. The fact that he has owned it this time and apologised is a massive step forward IMHO, and I for one am prepared to take that at face value.

I guess what I'm getting at Rabbitoad, is that your constant calling him out on small shit is clogging up this forum with what I perceive as petty arguments, I'm all for calling out Rabbits20 or other posters on serious shit, but a lot of this is unnecessary. It adds nothing to the forum overall.

I understand that in your day job you are a psychologist, and no doubt a very good one. You appear to be a very intelligent man (Slurp, slurp again). In light of this I would like to ask you the following questions:

1. You have stated here previously that you would like to help Rabbits20 grow up and act like an adult (I'm paraphrasing I know). Do you think that your present approach is helping achieve this desired outcome, and would you use the same approach with one of your clients?

2. You have previously stated that you have helped others, similar (or worse) than Rabbits20 improve themselves. Is this the approach you have used with them?

3. Do you honestly believe that your present approach is contributing to make this forum a better and more inclusive place?

Anyway, Rabbitoad, I look forward to your response. I love the fact that this place is so diverse and would really love to catch up with ALL of you for a BBQ to celebrate 22. I would have the gloves on standby, but I reckon it would be an absolute hoot of a night.

Cheers Stan.​

 

[Curns13]

So you can think I'm an asshole, but I can't think you're being effected by pity.

Seems a bit hypocritical.

I can absolutely disagree with what you're thinking. It's called an opinion and I'm more than comfortable with what I've based it on.

Come on Mr Evidence. What is that opinion based on? What are your ‘sources’? You want everyone else to be transparent, how about you. I’ve asked a couple of times now, why do you keep dodging the question?

 

[Rabbitoad]

Come on Mr Evidence. What is that opinion based on? What are your ‘sources’? You want everyone else to be transparent, how about you. I’ve asked a couple of times now, why do you keep dodging the question?

Aww, don't resort to childish name calling mate. You're better than that.

You're desperately sticking up for him even though you can't argue the things I've said about him.

Your argument is essentially that you think I should lay off him.

Which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's based in sympathy, not logic.

Then seeing how you reacted when I suggested as much only confirmed that fact.

You wouldn't get this offended if you thought I was wrong.

If I was wrong, why would you care what I think? Especially when I've phrased it as "just my opinion" that you were welcome to disagree with.

It's very similar to when I suggest Fletch is lying and he loses his shit.

I know it isn't nice to think your opinion has been manipulated, but to me it's obvious that it has.

You don't have to agree with my opinion, but the more you lose your shit and get upset about it, the more it kind of confirms what I've said.

 

[Curns13]

Aww, don't resort to childish name calling mate. You're better than that.

You're desperately sticking up for him even though you can't argue the things I've said about him.

Your argument is essentially that you think I should lay off him.

Which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's based in sympathy, not logic.

Then seeing how you reacted when I suggested as much only confirmed that fact.

You wouldn't get this offended if you thought I was wrong.

If I was wrong, why would you care what I think? Especially when I've phrased it as "just my opinion" that you were welcome to disagree with.

It's very similar to when I suggest Fletch is lying and he loses his shit.

I know it isn't nice to think your opinion has been manipulated, but to me it's obvious that it has.

You don't have to agree with my opinion, but the more you lose your shit and get upset about it, the more it kind of confirms what I've said.

Quote me where i’ve stuck up for R20.

Quote me where i’ve said or suggested you should lay off R20.

I couldn’t give a shit about R20 right now. I’m pissed because you are calling me a liar. I’ve told you I feel no pity for him 3 times and you continue to say I do. Do you believe I am lying? Are you calling me a liar?

 

[Curns13]

Aww, don't resort to childish name calling mate. You're better than that.

You're desperately sticking up for him even though you can't argue the things I've said about him.

Your argument is essentially that you think I should lay off him.

Which is fine. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's based in sympathy, not logic.

Then seeing how you reacted when I suggested as much only confirmed that fact.

You wouldn't get this offended if you thought I was wrong.

If I was wrong, why would you care what I think? Especially when I've phrased it as "just my opinion" that you were welcome to disagree with.

It's very similar to when I suggest Fletch is lying and he loses his shit.

I know it isn't nice to think your opinion has been manipulated, but to me it's obvious that it has.

You don't have to agree with my opinion, but the more you lose your shit and get upset about it, the more it kind of confirms what I've said.

And are you seriously suggesting that me calling you ‘Mr Evidence’ is childish name calling? Maybe you need to follow your own advice and grow up.

 

[Rabbitoad]

Hi Rabbitoad,

Firstly I would like to say that I appreciate a lot of what you post on here (Slurp, slurp I know). Initially I even took great joy in your constant calling out of Rabbits20.

I actually triggered this current shitstorm by calling Rabbits20 out. As well as this my main inspiration for joining this forum was to call Rabbits20 and Shadow out for their constant calling out of all our players as duds and then backflipping and claiming them as their own afterwards.

Source, I hear you ask, my original post:

It is obvious that Rabbits20 is a very divisive poster on this forum, clearly evidenced by the many feuds he is involved in. You are correct that he finds it extremely difficult to admit when he is wrong, even though he often calls out others for the same thing.

I guess my point is that even when he has come out and conceded he was wrong in response to my opening post on this issue, you still feel the need to question him on this. As stated in my previous post, I am well aware that he did not need to add those small disclaimers to his apology. It added nothing to his apology and opened the door for criticism. We are all at different stages in our own personal development, and I know when I was younger I found it much harder to admit when I was wrong, especially without adding a disclaimer. This is why I am now able to take his apology in good faith.

Last year, when this content was originally posted, when confronted Rabbits20 avoided questions about it and posted things like "I'm just here to talk about footy". As I stated previously I thought this was a cowardly response at the time. The fact that he has owned it this time and apologised is a massive step forward IMHO, and I for one am prepared to take that at face value.

I guess what I'm getting at Rabbitoad, is that your constant calling him out on small shit is clogging up this forum with what I perceive as petty arguments, I'm all for calling out Rabbits20 or other posters on serious shit, but a lot of this is unnecessary. It adds nothing to the forum overall.

I understand that in your day job you are a psychologist, and no doubt a very good one. You appear to be a very intelligent man (Slurp, slurp again). In light of this I would like to ask you the following questions:

1. You have stated here previously that you would like to help Rabbits20 grow up and act like an adult (I'm paraphrasing I know). Do you think that your present approach is helping achieve this desired outcome, and would you use the same approach with one of your clients?

2. You have previously stated that you have helped others, similar (or worse) than Rabbits20 improve themselves. Is this the approach you have used with them?

3. Do you honestly believe that your present approach is contributing to make this forum a better and more inclusive place?

Anyway, Rabbitoad, I look forward to your response. I love the fact that this place is so diverse and would really love to catch up with ALL of you for a BBQ to celebrate 22. I would have the gloves on standby, but I reckon it would be an absolute hoot of a night.

Cheers Stan.​

Alright man, I'll try to keep it simple so I don't get too ranty

I called his apology what it was. I don't think a sincere apology comes with a cheap shot implying he was right all along to be opposed to homosexual relationships/parenting.

As for your questions

1- Using logic to make someone feel shame over their poor behaviour is literally the best reason to fix it.

If they don't see the error of their ways and just try to hide it to keep the peace, it's going to re-emerge worse than before.

2- Yes. If someone isn't at the point of acknowledging their faults and wanting to work on them, Answer 1 is absolutely a good approach

3- Long term, yes. If people don't cave to his tantrums when he doesn't get his own way, he'll have to address the issue. Once he does that, he won't be getting into the same argument with half the forums.

 

[Rabbitoad]

Quote me where i’ve stuck up for R20.

Quote me where i’ve said or suggested you should lay off R20.

I couldn’t give a shit about R20 right now. I’m pissed because you are calling me a liar. I’ve told you I feel no pity for him 3 times and you continue to say I do. Do you believe I am lying? Are you calling me a liar?

Re-read your comments dude.

Also, not calling you a liar. A liar would be someone who realises they're being affected, then lies about it.

That's not what I've suggested at all.

And are you seriously suggesting that me calling you ‘Mr Evidence’ is childish name calling? Maybe you need to follow your own advice and grow up.

Lashing out because you're frustrated won't hurt my feelings mate.