'This club is a rabble' thread #5,672...

[Alex28]

The juniors we have lost over the last 10 years would murder our team today. We aren't identifying the right juniors to keep.

The NRL needs to step in and save the club. We are about as hard core a fan as you are going to get, and for the first time of being part of this forum (13 years now?) I genuinely feel the club is losing us. Next year we will not have an Origin or Kangaroo rep player - at all. They need to get proper management in place which will recruit the right players, make the team competitive again and help win the fans back. They need to regain the connection with the local community again.

The NRL needs badly to look at the coaching squad. It's pretty evident Stone is out of his depth. Cut him loose, recruit better.

As the club loses touch with the community, the quality of the juniors coming through will diminish because they either won't want to play for the Knights or - even worse - won't want to play League. Waiting for the next crop won't work - it is going to take recruiting some players who kids will want to look up to - and now.

We need management who can manage the salary cap better. There are clubs that can fit Million Dollar players under their salary cap - with our squad we should be able to do that. Why aren't we having a genuine shot at doing that? Why isn't the NRL questioning why current management aren't doing what they can to improve their asset?

I love the Knights. I've been a member for 20 years, have tolerated some pretty shitty times but I can't see a way out of where we are right now. No one - even right at the very top - is doing anything about improving our club. It isn't good enough.

 

[mozza91]

Article in the Telegraph today saying we knocked back Josh Jackson as a junior. Pretty much sums us up - form a team of players we have let go and we'd just about win a premiership with them. I get cranky seeing Boyd Cordner playing for the Roosters - he should still be with us...

Clubs like the Roosters and the Bulldogs have alot more money to spend on juniors than we do. It's hard to keep a good young kid when a richer club can give him 3 times as much.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Clubs like the Roosters and the Bulldogs have alot more money to spend on juniors than we do. It's hard to keep a good young kid when a richer club can give him 3 times as much.

Not really, as there are salary caps for lower grades

 

[slotmachine]

Only for NYC and NSW Cup players who play first grade though. You can stockpile as many 16 year olds as you like.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

There wouldn't be a 16 year old out there on more than 20-30k

 

[mozza91]

Only for NYC and NSW Cup players who play first grade though. You can stockpile as many 16 year olds as you like.

Yep that's how the Roosters got Cordner and Anthony Tupou back in the day. Simply offer them alot more than what they'd get up here. No kid is gonna say no to it.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

No amount of money that a 16 year old would get would break the bank of any club.

If the Knights had good recruiting structures and foresight we would be able to identify prospects and sign them accordingly.

 

[Haffa]

Being able to demonstrate a proven track record of bringing those players through certainly helps when convincing them to move clubs. Being able to say "stay with us you'll play finals and rep footy if you're good enough and work hard" isn't something we can really offer convincingly.

Aku and Jimmy are the only origin players we've produced from the Junior system since Kurt right?

 

[Still Nutty]

Only for NYC and NSW Cup players who play first grade though. You can stockpile as many 16 year olds as you like.

My young bloke played Wests in the local under 17s comp the other week and their best 3 players on their team (bloody talented too...I reckon they could blitz NYC now) and they are all signed up as Manly juniors...

 

[slotmachine]

Aku and Jimmy are the only origin players we've produced from the Junior system since Kurt right?

Yep. Two wingers with seven or eight? games between them in 15 years.

Snowden was also obviously a junior, but only started going good once he got to the Sharks.

 

[Nuffy]

Can I also make the point that I find it incredible that our director of football, for a team thats lost 6 of its 7 last games, has nothing better to do than spend a week with the Qld origin team.

I would have thought that everyone associated with the club would be doing nothing but trying to fix things.

 

[slotmachine]

Can't blame him, would be nice to associate with winners from time to time.

 

[Knightmare]

Just read Joey and Bedsy's comments on the other thread. Especially telling from Bedsy, seeing as he is still involved with the club. If that isn't further proof that Stone and the board need to b moved on, I don't know what is?

 

[Joker's Wild]

Article in the Telegraph today saying we knocked back Josh Jackson as a junior. Pretty much sums us up - form a team of players we have let go and we'd just about win a premiership with them. I get cranky seeing Boyd Cordner playing for the Roosters - he should still be with us...

I genuinely would like to see you name this team of current players we let go

I don't think it's as dire as you make out

 

[perverse]

There's a handy pack of forwards that we've let go. I don't think we ever let a back leave the place - even if we have to throw the bank at them.

 

[Swarzey]

I genuinely would like to see you name this team of current players we let go

I don't think it's as dire as you make out

It really isn't.

Most juniors have only had one or two seasons of decent form. Cordner is the perfect example; two years ago I was thinking how stupid it was to let him go but it's hard to argue he'd be in front of Tariq or Scott or Rochow nowadays. Jackson will most likely be no different.

We've retained some quality juniors. Yates, Tapine, Fitzgibbon, Taylor, Steele etc. As much as people want to bitch and moan about not retaining the "right juniors", unless they're a player like Jake Mamo or Sione Mata'utia you're taking a punt on whoever you resign and let go especially when it comes to forwards.

 

[The Showstopper]

Signing juniors is a really tough ask and if you get it wrong it can cost you plenty. Cordner was signed by Peter O'Sullivan. Jackson is late bloomer for mine. I really think he is terribly overrated as well. He was shocking Wednesday night. Cordner is really a more talented version of Houston but not by much.

As for forwards and players we have either knocked back or they have changed their minds a list like this makes you see why hindsight is so easy.

Ben Matulino
Steve Renouf
Gareth Ellis
Sean Long
Rob Burrow

However we did sign that gem of a winger Brian Carney. If only for a year.

 

[perverse]

The thing is... most clubs look to their juniors to fill "role-playing" type roles. This is the portion of your squad you can reliably fill with juniors on the cheap. You're not going to develop a superstar all the time, but you can always find a player to do a job for you in a non-critical role provided that your spine is quality and settled, and that you have a few forward leaders to drag the rest of the boys along. If you have the superstars in your juniors, that's fine too... but you can't rely on your main players always coming from there.

Unfortunately, we couldn't recruit a marquee to save ourselves - so it seems that we are banking massive dollars on our juniors and just crossing our fingers that it works. I don't believe it will, and I think things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. I'm kinda hoping we do have a rabbit in our hat still for next year - actually we need a few... but a competent half is just so critical to us now. I think Richie Myler from the ESL is worth looking at, although I think he would turn out something like Dobson... I just think we need to do SOMETHING.

I'm not seeing a lot of people jerking off over Lamb or Cogger anymore? I'm guessing that's due to the fact that NYC is getting hammered weekly. It wouldn't surprise me at all if neither of them turned into even a competent first grader, we just have no clue how to bring these kids through. You'd think that a club that is banking so heavily on the juniors coming good would have an ounce of an idea on how to groom them for first grade, but we just don't seem to know what we're doing as a club there.

Having said all of this, it's all moot if the culture is toxic and our coach can't fix it. We're pretty much just discussing semantics, because none of it matters until the squad wants to win a comp, rather than just be happy to be playing first grade. There is a distinct lack of ambition in our squad, and I don't know what the answer is aside from clearing the decks all over again.

Also just f**king Michael Hagen. Michael f**king Hagen. What chance of success do we ever have whilst that merkin face is pulling all the strings? Hopeless appointment, hopeless coach, hopeless manager. Everything this man touches turns to shit - with the notable exception of the QLD origin team. There's literally too much class in that team for him to bring them down. The guy seems to have all the rugby league nous of a rotten grape.

 

[aqua_duck]

Lamb and Cogger have as good a chance of success as any young half in the game, both are highly decorated juniors, Cogger captained the Australian schoolboys last year even though he was the youngest in the team. The thing is nothing ever goes right at our club, we're like a black hole for talent

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Lamb and Cogger have as good a chance of success as any young half in the game, both are highly decorated juniors, Cogger captained the Australian schoolboys last year even though he was the youngest in the team. The thing is nothing ever goes right at our club, we're like a black hole for talent

If they turn out well, itll be in spite of this club not because of it.