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Tim Mander and Foxsports

Firey_Dragon

Coach
Messages
12,099
This rubbish about not hitting kickers is f**king soft. If you don't want to get hit don't kick the ball, or stand deeper.

I have no problems with them penalising players that dive at the legs of a kicker, that can ruin someones career but the no contact rule is ridiculous, and inconsistent like everything else in the NRL.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
The way that particular rule is enforced ( the kicking rule ) someone is going to lose a big-time game somewhere along the line when a kicker decides to fake a kick and dummy and go through. The rule should be if you attack the legs, or a bit like NFL, use unnecessary roughness, it's a penalty. If you're right on the money and don't wrap the arms around, play on. If you run in like I think it was Mark Riddell did a few years ago and plant an elbow on the kicker, penalty.

Funch has got to go. I can't believe he's saying he still thinks its BOTD. He is kidding himself.
 

thorson1987

Coach
Messages
16,907
I have no problems with them penalising players that dive at the legs of a kicker, that can ruin someones career but the no contact rule is ridiculous, and inconsistent like everything else in the NRL.

OMG. Cant believe i agree with a saints fan.

The rule is a joke.

I play prop and it is really hard when putting pressure on a kicker to avoid them once they have kicked the ball.

The good thing for me is the rule isnt that pedantic in local leagues. Hell iv even elbowed a few guys in the head after the ball has been kicked and havent given away a penalty.
 

Fairfax

Juniors
Messages
773
The decisions on the ground are becoming a farce too. Can you explain to me why Corey Parker was penalised for the contact on Braith Anasta? Why don't the NRL just tell players not to rush up on kickers anymore. Thats where its headed.

Because that has been the interpretation all year. The Roosters have had some very costly penalties given against them for the same thing or less.

It's farcical but doesn't compare with a third party, not involved in the actual game, impacting on the result through negligence. That is why this is unfathomable.

That this third party is employed by the same people as the beneficiary of the error makes it worse.

It is important to do the right thing and even more important to be seen to do the right thing. Especially in this circumstance.

I've never suggested there is a conspiracy, but this looks bad any way you cut it.

News Ltd needs to leave the game asap.
 

gUt

Coach
Messages
16,935
They say you have to be attempting a tackle, using the arms or else it's a penalty. In the normal run of play a shoulder charge is perfectly legit. Fair enough, the kicker is off balance but so is a runner who gets blindsided.

Second thing, players know what the rule is. Parker should have put his arms around the kicker. Why tempt fate by shoulder charging/body checking a kicker when you can easily use your arms as well?

Don't get me wrong, the penalty was fkn stupid and unnecessary but the players know what they can and can't do.
 

Jason Maher

Immortal
Messages
35,982
They say you have to be attempting a tackle, using the arms or else it's a penalty. In the normal run of play a shoulder charge is perfectly legit. Fair enough, the kicker is off balance but so is a runner who gets blindsided.

Second thing, players know what the rule is. Parker should have put his arms around the kicker. Why tempt fate by shoulder charging/body checking a kicker when you can easily use your arms as well?

Don't get me wrong, the penalty was fkn stupid and unnecessary but the players know what they can and can't do.

Glad to hear a Broncos fan admit this. The referee clearly explained that the penalty was for not attempting to tackle the kicker, which made a lovely background to the moronic fox commentators waxing lyrical about it being a bad call because the hit wasn't late.

Mind you, I agree that the rule as it stands is ridiculous and inconsistent. As someone said above, a shoulder charge on a kicker is no more dangerous than any other shoulder charge.
 

user_nat

Coach
Messages
12,392
Didn't a player get penalised for actually tackling, arms and all, a kicker recently? I think it may have been Tigers V Titans.
 

Cockadoodledoo

First Grade
Messages
5,045
So is leaving out the wrong video angle. The conspiracy theories are seriously stupid and unintelligent. Its obvious the problem applies across the board, and issues arent only with video ref's.

The decisions on the ground are becoming a farce too. Can you explain to me why Corey Parker was penalised for the contact on Braith Anasta? Why don't the NRL just tell players not to rush up on kickers anymore. Thats where its headed.

I will be honest, I was kind of hoping Carney would miss the kick because that penalty was a joke.
 

badav

Bench
Messages
2,601
Because that has been the interpretation all year. The Roosters have had some very costly penalties given against them for the same thing or less.

It's farcical but doesn't compare with a third party, not involved in the actual game, impacting on the result through negligence. That is why this is unfathomable.

That this third party is employed by the same people as the beneficiary of the error makes it worse.

It is important to do the right thing and even more important to be seen to do the right thing. Especially in this circumstance.

I've never suggested there is a conspiracy, but this looks bad any way you cut it.

News Ltd needs to leave the game asap.

Turn it up.

Its got f**k all to do with News Limited. Easy way out arguing anything with even half an ounce of sense. Just blame News Limited. I'd like to know where you come up with the fact that Fox Sports is not involved in the game either, considering they pay lots of money to broadcast the games on TV.

Believe it or not, non News Limited clubs have also received the benefit of video referee blunders many times.

Example for you again, last years minor premiership. If the correct decision is made the bulldogs finish on 40, and St George on 36.
 
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nrlnrl

First Grade
Messages
6,861
They pick and choose which angle they want, like you say it doesnt just magically become available to them.

Like the wide, grandstand type angle that lets you see the both backlines and the 10 metres. We see flashes of it once or twice a game... For once id love to watch a whole match with that angle

easy - go to the game & sit at the back of the grandstand near halfway

Last week's Cowboys v Knights game was a good example of an angle that mightn't seem relevant being the vital one. In the match winning try by Will Tupou, there was uncertainty about his boot touching the sideline & the most obvious camera to check was the one in the corner where the try was scored - it was inconclusive. However, the corner camera at the other end of the field showed that his boot didn't touch the line & the try was awarded.

I've seen games on both Fox Sports & Channel 9 when situations like the above have been referred to the video ref, but this angle from the other end of the ground wasn't shown.

I don't know if the ultimate responsibilty is with the video ref or the broadcaster ( to ask for or suggest angles ), but it's a 2-way street.
 
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thorson1987

Coach
Messages
16,907
easy - go to the game & sit at the back of the grandstand near halfway

Last week's Cowboys v Knights game was a good example of an angle that mightn't seem relevant being the vital one. In the match winning try by Will Tupou, there was uncertainty about his boot touching the sideline & the most obvious camera to check was the one in the corner where the try was scored - it was inconclusive. However, the corner camera at the other end of the field showed that his boot didn't touch the line & the try was awarded.

I've seen games on both Fox Sports & Channel 9 when situations like the above have been referred to the video ref, but this angle from the other end of the ground wasn't shown.

I don't know if the ultimate responsibilty is with the video ref or the broadcaster ( to ask for or suggest angles ), but it's a 2-way street.

I am pretty sure that it is up to the video ref as to what angles he wants, unfortunately sometimes they dont have the correct angle.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Even the ruling was flawed though. Mander's decision was try. Not benefit of the doubt, not gee whiz on field refs I haven't got conclusive video here so it's going to be your call... Mander's decision by the interpretation says without any doubt, that is a try. Even before that final, fatal camera angle, there was no way you conclusively, without a doubt, say that was a try, which is exactly what Mander said. No doubt at all, try.

Yet Funchy defends that decision. Turn it up Bob, have you considered being a garbo-sorter? It'd be about all you're good at. Useless administrator at club level, epic failure as ref's coach. Annesley if he's his boss needs his head read if he thinks this bloke is the right man for the job. At least at times Hollywood Harragon seems to be able to admit if an error has been made, Funchy reads for the same script everytime, basically that he agreed with the decision and its all our faults for not understanding it.

What a merkin.
 

Fairfax

Juniors
Messages
773
Turn it up.

Its got f**k all to do with News Limited. Easy way out arguing anything with even half an ounce of sense. Just blame News Limited. I'd like to know where you come up with the fact that Fox Sports is not involved in the game either, considering they pay lots of money to broadcast the games on TV.

News Ltd are major shareholders in Fox Sports. And the Broncos. And the NRL.

They don't pay anywhere near market value for the broadcast rights because of that.

Try and keep up.

At no stage did I say they are not involved in the game... What I in fact said was that they are not involved in the match itself and shouldn't be critical to the result.

The people involved are thirty four players and five referees. They should determine the result, not some poor overworked tech in an OB van.

Annesley came out as NRL operations manager to avoid responsibilty for the error by saying, ""Basically there was an error made by one of their video-tape operators."

That is inexcusable. It is the responsibility of the NRL to get it right and have protocols to make it happen. Like asking the question, "I can't see what is going on clearly in those shots, do you have anymore angles?"
 

Dr.J

Juniors
Messages
72
Turn it up.

Its got f**k all to do with News Limited. Easy way out arguing anything with even half an ounce of sense. Just blame News Limited. Believe it or not, non News Limited clubs have also received the benefit of video referee blunders many times.

Example for you again, last years minor premiership, Bulldogs v St George game.

The problems with News Limited owning the Broncos and owning half of Foxsports and half the NRL is perception at the very least (i.e. that all teams have a fair and equal chance of a wrong decision). I doubt any people seriously believe that any referee or video operator ever deliberately favours the Broncos on the basis that they are a News Limited teams. However, subconscious bias is possible and does exist, which is why the home team wins the penalty count 60-65% of weeks. Even though no referee goes out consciously planning to favour the home team, after the fans have screamed to accentuate the transgressions of the away teams, it miraculously turns out that the majority of penalty counts favour the home team.

The Roosters have won less than 20% of their penalty counts over the last three seasons, irrespective of whether they have been home or away, near the top of the table or down the bottom. They also have had a very unlucky run of video referee decisions in the past five weeks (50/50 or worse going against them): First try for Warriors appeared planted on the dead ball line - awarded BOTD; Canberra try also awarded after appearing to bounce forward off a Canberra player first, BOTD; Anasta no try against Bulldogs not awarded because of a miniscule hint of possible separation on one frame - no BOTD given; Kenny try given outright despite apparent obvious dropped ball forward from Folau. Even a Minichiello double movement against the Broncos went to no try, which was a defendable and probably correct decision, but others similar to this have been BOTD earlier this year. This extends to forward pass decisions/non-decisions. Against Souths, apparent fair try in first half by Roosters called back for a flat pass; Against Bulldogs, Ennis massive forward pass ignored, they score next set, then a flat pass by Anasta called forward, stopping a Roosters try and leading to a Bulldogs try.

OK so the Roosters have been the 'unlucky team' with respect to ref and video ref decisions recently. It isn't universal - they did get a 50/50 decision for a leg pull on Linnett on PTB 5th tackle against Souths which helped them win the game. But there have been at least 8 decisions 50/50 or worse that have gone against them in the last 5 weeks, and it is just a fact that the Roosters don't win many penalty counts. The question is: given News Limited's ownership, does the general public believe a similarly unlucky run with the referees like this would be equally likely to occur to the Broncos? I doubt there is anyone who thinks the refs are deliberately biased, but there seem to be an increasing number asking the questions of whether this is completely random or not.

If a subconscious bias does exist, it is probably very small, and it isn't likely to affect the outcome of many games. But it is a fault of the competition structure that News Limited is the games administrator and a team owner. Any conflict that does hang over referees would be removed by a truly independent commission. Bill Harrigan was rightly told in 2005 that if you want to be a video ref you have to resign as a refereeing consultant for the Roosters. News Limited should and will eventually get told if you want to bid for the TV rights, you can't own any teams and you can't own 50% of the competition.
 

CMUX

Guest
Messages
926
The problems with News Limited owning the Broncos and owning half of Foxsports and half the NRL is perception at the very least (i.e. that all teams have a fair and equal chance of a wrong decision). I doubt any people seriously believe that any referee or video operator ever deliberately favours the Broncos on the basis that they are a News Limited teams. However, subconscious bias is possible and does exist, which is why the home team wins the penalty count 60-65% of weeks. Even though no referee goes out consciously planning to favour the home team, after the fans have screamed to accentuate the transgressions of the away teams, it miraculously turns out that the majority of penalty counts favour the home team.

The Roosters have won less than 20% of their penalty counts over the last three seasons, irrespective of whether they have been home or away, near the top of the table or down the bottom. They also have had a very unlucky run of video referee decisions in the past five weeks (50/50 or worse going against them): First try for Warriors appeared planted on the dead ball line - awarded BOTD; Canberra try also awarded after appearing to bounce forward off a Canberra player first, BOTD; Anasta no try against Bulldogs not awarded because of a miniscule hint of possible separation on one frame - no BOTD given; Kenny try given outright despite apparent obvious dropped ball forward from Folau. Even a Minichiello double movement against the Broncos went to no try, which was a defendable and probably correct decision, but others similar to this have been BOTD earlier this year. This extends to forward pass decisions/non-decisions. Against Souths, apparent fair try in first half by Roosters called back for a flat pass; Against Bulldogs, Ennis massive forward pass ignored, they score next set, then a flat pass by Anasta called forward, stopping a Roosters try and leading to a Bulldogs try.

OK so the Roosters have been the 'unlucky team' with respect to ref and video ref decisions recently. It isn't universal - they did get a 50/50 decision for a leg pull on Linnett on PTB 5th tackle against Souths which helped them win the game. But there have been at least 8 decisions 50/50 or worse that have gone against them in the last 5 weeks, and it is just a fact that the Roosters don't win many penalty counts. The question is: given News Limited's ownership, does the general public believe a similarly unlucky run with the referees like this would be equally likely to occur to the Broncos? I doubt there is anyone who thinks the refs are deliberately biased, but there seem to be an increasing number asking the questions of whether this is completely random or not.

If a subconscious bias does exist, it is probably very small, and it isn't likely to affect the outcome of many games. But it is a fault of the competition structure that News Limited is the games administrator and a team owner. Any conflict that does hang over referees would be removed by a truly independent commission. Bill Harrigan was rightly told in 2005 that if you want to be a video ref you have to resign as a refereeing consultant for the Roosters. News Limited should and will eventually get told if you want to bid for the TV rights, you can't own any teams and you can't own 50% of the competition.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: Great post!!!
 

Packy

Bench
Messages
4,243
They aren't cheats.
They aren't blind.
They aren't biased.

They are just incompetent.
 
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