Time to crack out Arko's ARL blueprint

[Perth Red]

So when Manly and Brisbane play a match on FTA that gets almost 1 million viewers. How many of those would be Manly fans?

just because you 'hate this argument' doesn't mean its isn't true.

probably about 10% of the 300-400k watching in Sydney.

 

[Dark Corner]

NRL premiership- 12 teams

Promotion-relegation

• Bottom relegated from NRLP and replaced by 1st in NRLC
• 2nd bottom in NRLP joins 2nd to 4th in playoff for place in NRLP

NRL championship- 10 teams

Both home and away seasons

• NRLP 22 games
• NRL 18 games plus a top 5 bottom 5 split single round robin for total 22 games

Salary cap has no monetary value but is a percentage of club revenue
NRL grants based off a flat value plus tiered payments based on league position. I.e. prize money for trying hard and not rewarding mediocracy as every Australian completion in every sport tends to do.

22 professional teams

1. Brisbane
2. North Qld
3. Gold coast
4. Redcliffe
5. Ipswich
6. PNG
7. Newcastle
8. Northern bears (emphasis on the CC)
9. Manly
10. South's
11. East's
12. West's
13. Cronulla
14. Parramatta
15. Canterbury
16. Penrith
17. Perth
18. St George-illawarra (emphasis on the gong)
19. Melbourne
20. Canberra
21. Auckland
22. 2nd city based NZ club

Love it and do you think you could add more Queensland teams in the future ?

 

[tri_colours]

probably about 10% of the 300-400k watching in Sydney.

Don't you think that estimate is a bit low? There are 9.5 Sydney teams so that would mean that at 10%. Manly viewers wouldn't get a boost from a Manly team playing. Many viewers only watch one game a week - there team. So I think your 10% figure is well out. I think a figure much closer to the mark for Sydney would be 100k manly viewers, 300k neutrals - 25%.

As for regional viewers, the majority of viewers over the age of 40 follow a Sydney team. And most of the ones that don't have a Sydney team as there 2nd favourite.

And even some of the people that live in Qld have a Sydney team as there 2nd favourite.

 

[Perth Red]

Don't you think that estimate is a bit low? There are 9.5 Sydney teams so that would mean that at 10%. Manly viewers wouldn't get a boost from a Manly team playing. Many viewers only watch one game a week - there team. So I think your 10% figure is well out. I think a figure much closer to the mark for Sydney would be 100k manly viewers, 300k neutrals - 25%.

As for regional viewers, the majority of viewers over the age of 40 follow a Sydney team. And most of the ones that don't have a Sydney team as there 2nd favourite.

And even some of the people that live in Qld have a Sydney team as there 2nd favourite.

as Great Dane said there is no way if verifying the data so not much point arguing as it will remain an unproven opinion.

 

[tri_colours]

as Great Dane said there is no way if verifying the data so not much point arguing as it will remain an unproven opinion.

Yeah, Great Dane says a lot of things.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

In the First two rounds manly had 2 of the highest ratings PTV games. Regardless of Manly's financial situation , the ratings there providing the NRL with are off greater importance than sides that allow the NRL to brag about having a national footprint.

Consistently though, it is Brisbane and Melbourne at the top of the ratings, not Manly. TV have gone to great lengths to communicate how important Brisbane is to the TV deal value and are even pushing for a second team. Melbourne are the highest rating sporting team on Australian TV.

I'd add to that the NZ Warriors are critical for TV money considering how much Sky NZ are willing to chip in because they are in the comp.

If any of these three teams weren't in the comp it would be a financial disaster. If Manly weren't in it, we would probably make progress in North Sydney by leaving the Bears and Sea Eagles to squabble it out in NSW Cup whilst the well run and well financed Roosters focused on becoming the club of the affluent North and East of Sydney. A formula that AFL and RU have figured out all whilst playing out of Moore Park.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I meant we can't lose Manly as RL needs a presence on the Northen Beaches.

It doesn't have to be Manly though, they are doing nothing for North Sydney outside of their direct suburban area. The Roosters could easily connect with the North and become the club of the affluent areas of Sydney (North and East) whilst still playing out of Moore Park as the Swans and Warratahs have done.

Norths and Manly can resume their rivalry in the NSW Cup and you may get a Newtown / Shute Shield style boost to that comp because of it.

 

[tri_colours]

Consistently though, it is Brisbane and Melbourne at the top of the ratings, not Manly. TV have gone to great lengths to communicate how important Brisbane is to the TV deal value and are even pushing for a second team. Melbourne are the highest rating sporting team on Australian TV.

I'd add to that the NZ Warriors are critical for TV money considering how much Sky NZ are willing to chip in because they are in the comp.

If any of these three teams weren't in the comp it would be a financial disaster. If Manly weren't in it, we would probably make progress in North Sydney by leaving the Bears and Sea Eagles to squabble it out in NSW Cup whilst the well run and well financed Roosters focused on becoming the club of the affluent North and East of Sydney. A formula that AFL and RU have figured out all whilst playing out of Moore Park.

I agree totally with what you say in your opening paragraph . I'm all for another team in Brisbane. Maybe Melbourne too, one day, but not now. Its taken them 20 years and a lot of money to get where they are. They bring in good money mainly because they attract plenty of Qld and NSW viewers because there very successful. In club games though Melbourne don't attract much more than 30k. So what happens when there not so successful not so attractive to watch?


Sky NZ already pay the NRL for TV coverage of the NRL . So there not going to pay much more, if any for another team.

Why would you want to get rid of 100s's of thousands of fans. With bit of patience you could have both fan bases.

It would be a financial disaster if we never had sides like the Sydney clubs and Qld clubs playing these teams . and it would be a financial disaster to give the AFL a leg up in leagues territory.

 

[The Great Dane]

I agree totally with what you say in your opening paragraph . I'm all for another team in Brisbane. Maybe Melbourne too, one day, but not now. Its taken them 20 years and a lot of money to get where they are. They bring in good money mainly because they attract plenty of Qld and NSW viewers because there very successful. In club games though Melbourne don't attract much more than 30k. So what happens when there not so successful not so attractive to watch?

Who cares how much money went into setting up the Storm. The NRL didn't pay for it and they're making a ton of money out of them.

Sky NZ already pay the NRL for TV coverage of the NRL . So there not going to pay much more, if any for another team.

Are you honestly suggesting that Sky NZ doesn't pay more for NZ based content?

I want some of what you are smoking.

Why would you want to get rid of 100s's of thousands of fans. With bit of patience you could have both fan bases.

There aren't hundreds of thousands of fans of Sydney clubs, and you can't have both because having to carry the clubs in the over saturated market of Sydney has crippled the NRL's growth.

It would be a financial disaster if we never had sides like the Sydney clubs and Qld clubs playing these teams . and it would be a financial disaster to give the AFL a leg up in leagues territory.

You'd still have Sydney clubs and Queensland clubs playing expansions clubs, there'd just be less from Sydney and more from Queensland, and by investing all the money and resources necessary to support 9 clubs in Sydney, instead of spreading it around to other areas of the game that need it way more, you've already given the AFL all the leg ups that it needs.

You are basically deciding that the NRL should stay a regional competition focused around Sydney, the problem is that you can't engage enough people to sustain it and compete with the AFL (and other sports) so you'll slowly lose all the regions outside of Sydney, and then you'll slowly lose Sydney under the weight of influence from the rest of the country. It's basically exactly what is happening to RL in Britain.

 

[Dark Corner]

It doesn't have to be Manly though, they are doing nothing for North Sydney outside of their direct suburban area. The Roosters could easily connect with the North and become the club of the affluent areas of Sydney (North and East) whilst still playing out of Moore Park as the Swans and Warratahs have done.

Norths and Manly can resume their rivalry in the NSW Cup and you may get a Newtown / Shute Shield style boost to that comp because of it.

Would like Souths to Moore Park and Easts just to North then and hey with NSW Cup you might get the Shute Shield teams coming over if Rugby Union goes bankrupt.

 

[Perth Red]

We’ve known since the late 80’s that sydney really needs around 5 or 6 clubs in a proper national competition. ARL knew it, superleague nearly achieved it, the nrl merged some to try and get there after the war, will COVID-19 deliver what the game has been trying to get to for the last 22 years?

 

[flippikat]

We’ve known since the late 80’s that sydney really needs around 5 or 6 clubs in a proper national competition. ARL knew it, superleague nearly achieved it, the nrl merged some to try and get there after the war, will COVID-19 deliver what the game has been trying to get to for the last 22 years?

Gees, I can only hope.

 

[Diesel]

Easts Tigers in Brisbane have put their hand up for an NRL team. If Easts in Brisbane can pay for the brand name by Wests Tigers somehow being able to demerge from Balmain (as it’s pretty much just the Tigers brand that’s worth anything), we could have a Brisbane Tigers. If the Magpies needed to merge, which I’m not sure they do, you can have a sensible merger of Western Suburbs and Canterbury, if the Bulldogs are under any financial stress which was suggested in the late 90’s or take advantage of the Panthers not being able to fund their juniors moving forward. Just don’t choose a stupid name like Greater Western Sydney XXXXX

 

[mongoose]

Easts Tigers in Brisbane have put their hand up for an NRL team. If Easts in Brisbane can pay for the brand name by Wests Tigers somehow being able to demerge from Balmain (as it’s pretty much just the Tigers brand that’s worth anything), we could have a Brisbane Tigers. If the Magpies needed to merge, which I’m not sure they do, you can have a sensible merger of Western Suburbs and Canterbury, if the Bulldogs are under any financial stress which was suggested in the late 90’s or take advantage of the Panthers not being able to fund their juniors moving forward. Just don’t choose a stupid name like Greater Western Sydney XXXXX

relocate the Magpies to somewhere, only problem is if its an AFL area then they will clash with the Collingwood Magpies. So they might have to change their mascot.

Or... they could strike up a deal with Collingwood and be the 2nd Melbourne League team, probably not ideal though.

 

[BuderusIsaBeast]

The Roosters are moving to become the North Sydney team.

They have been in and around the Central Coast market for years now and their NSW Cup team is the North Sydney Bears. There even scheduled to play a home game at North Sydney Oval.

If Manly do fall away the Roosters will look to establish themselves as the North Sydney side

 

[flippikat]

The Roosters are moving to become the North Sydney team.

They have been in and around the Central Coast market for years now and their NSW Cup team is the North Sydney Bears. There even scheduled to play a home game at North Sydney Oval.

If Manly do fall away the Roosters will look to establish themselves as the North Sydney side

I think that solves a lot of problems.

An "Enclave Club" moved to the 2nd tier (if Manly drops instead of folding altogether), a foundation club expanding it's area & securing it's future.. and via the Norths 'feeder arrangement', you have a similar "two foundation clubs building a future together" situation to Wests Tigers, but in a more geographically sensible zone.

Plus, if Manly drops to NSW Cup ala Newtown, the rivalry with Norths is renewed at 2nd tier level!

It also keeps the Central Coast free for any other Sydney club to relocate there - presumably one of the inner-west ones (Tigers, Eels, Bulldogs).. or possibly the Sharks.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I think that solves a lot of problems.

An "Enclave Club" moved to the 2nd tier (if Manly drops instead of folding altogether), a foundation club expanding it's area & securing it's future.. and via the Norths 'feeder arrangement', you have a similar "two foundation clubs building a future together" situation to Wests Tigers, but in a more geographically sensible zone.

Plus, if Manly drops to NSW Cup ala Newtown, the rivalry with Norths is renewed at 2nd tier level!

It also keeps the Central Coast free for any other Sydney club to relocate there - presumably one of the inner-west ones (Tigers, Eels, Bulldogs).. or possibly the Sharks.

Yep, Roosters should definitely be moning into the North Sydney area...

The agreement with the Bears as a feeder club is brilliant and should be cemented with a few Roosters Home games in North Sydney oval each year (Seas Eagles are a shit drawing opposition teams, so they would be a prime choice)

By engaging fans north of the Harbour bridge, we might then see fans make the trek down to the SFS for other home games

 

[Dark Corner]

Yep, Roosters should definitely be moning into the North Sydney area...

The agreement with the Bears as a feeder club is brilliant and should be cemented with a few Roosters Home games in North Sydney oval each year (Seas Eagles are a shit drawing opposition teams, so they would be a prime choice)

By engaging fans north of the Harbour bridge, we might then see fans make the trek down to the SFS for other home games

I would want a North of the bridge team full time

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I would want a North of the bridge team full time

And i want a $100k a year, a blowie from Margot Robbie and to leave my f*ckin house sometime this month....

We dont always get a perfect situation. Sometimes it pays to focus on what is possible and practical.

A National league OR a team in every Sydney suburb. You cant have both...

 

[flippikat]

A National league OR a team in every Sydney suburb. You cant have both...

Basically THIS.

THIS is the crux of the argument of every expansionist in this forum, myself included.

Name any national league, anywhere in the world outside of AFL or NRL where you have such a concentration of teams in one city.

It doesn't happen, precisely because it's an unsustainable, imbalanced model.